ADHD and driving
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"Sum Wun" Sum...@SumWhere.els
Another poster mentioned that she has a lot of accidents due to her ADHD.
I've known one other person with ADHD and he also has an unfortunate driving history. I have the inattentive form of ADHD and I have never had an accident. I consider my ability to multi-process information an advantage in driving.
Any thoughts or comments?
Sexton War...@Sexton.com
Multi-processing works great as long as you are alert.
I feel like Im hyper aware too, for a limited time. But then before you know it , you are distracted by something --- the radio, a person walking, athought in your head thats a result of going off on some tangent. And before you know it , you zone out for a while.
I havent had any accident for a long long long time. But then I dont drive as much as I used to. I had 3 things that worked against me. I would be filled with a boundless restless energy combined with impulsivity. I would drive all night on whim. On a Sunday I would drive down the coast and end up in San Diego when I was planning to go to the store. The amount of driving and iimpulsive nature , and the emotionally supercharged state I was always in - made accidents more likely.
The other was the one I mentioned , zoning out. I once drove through a red light before I realized what I was doing. Luckily no cars were in the intersection.
The third is the endless tendency to tinker with things , take them apart and not finish any projects - so often my car was in a half finished state if I had taken part of it apart. Once my brakes stopped working when I failed to tighten the bleeder screws all the way.
Its a range of behaviors. I think people who think its trivial dont have ADD and often claim they do from a shallow understanding of it - thinking they are forgetful, or a bit impulsive so that means they have it and everyone is that way so whats the big deal. Or they are a failure in life and glob onto some kind of label - ADHD or OCD or manic depressive and then proclaim its a "new, misunderstood kind of personality" , which the "the system" is against which explains their relative lack of success. And that there is nothing wrong with themselves. A lot of the problems are problems . I dont count being in many accidents a good thing. Or flunking out of school.
"Sum Wun" Sum...@SumWhere.els
<snipped> That's not what happens to me. I do zone out, but I find that I'm able to process what's happening around me even though I am not focused. It seems like my subconscious mind is integrating all of the information available.
This leaves my conscious mind to make calculated decisions, which I tend not to do as well.
This sounds like hyper-active behavior. I wonder if this is one of the differences between ADHD and the inattentive form.
I must admit that I've done this too. But maybe everyone does this on occasion? I know that my father has made this mistake, and he's been driving accident free for over 40 years.
This I can relate too, except that I would never tinker with my car. I know where the battery is and that's about it.
Morph Grrl some...@nowhereelse.com
All I know is until I got on meds, I had difficulty driving. Of course I have anxiety along with ADHD. But now I can drive just fine.
I think it's the ones that have ADHD with hyperactivity that may generally have problems. You get impatient and you just rush around, etc.
I think you might not have a problem, perhaps because you may have wanted to make sure to learn how to drive safely, or have made yourself pay extra attention to your driving. Or you may have learned how to compensate. I think as ADHDers we all have our way of compesating for different ADHD problems.
For example, I have learned how to compensate for the typical ADHD lateness by having a watch to constantly look at. I also have it beep at each hour so that it will remind me to look at it. My mom also would get obsessive about being on time. So it rubbed off on me.
But I have "relapsed" at times when I hyperfocus and I lose awareness of time..
MorphGrrl MorphGrrl
m ...@earthlink.net (Emma Anne)
That was probably me. My comment is that ADDers vary a lot in these matters. Some are good at sports, even. I have trouble with what I call "micro-attention." I lose track for a second or two randomly, with occasionally bad results. A bad thing for driving and sports.
Ann ann...@thecia.net
I don't know, I'm hyperactive, and have no problem driving.
Hyper-aware helps, in my case. I've never had an accident (knock on wood!!)
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Ann ann...@thecia.net
nknisley nknis...@bcpl.net
If you are a better driver because of your ADHD, your experience isn't typical according to those who have studied the matter.
IIANM, studies have shown that drivers with ADHD are more likely to be involved in driving accidents, be in more serious accidents, receive more traffic citations, and have their licenses suspended more frequently that drivers without ADHD.
Nancy Unique, like everyone else
m ...@earthlink.net (Emma Anne)
Yes. *Way* more likely.
Morph Grrl some...@nowhereelse.com
Well, true, there's always the exception to the rule. Let's see what happens with me after I get my driver's license. I've been a good girl with my driving instructor (of course he's 24 and he's cute :) ). Hey, BTW, I got a nice compliment from him. First of all, he thinks I'm only 28. And then he was trying to hook me up with his friend. I had to decline, because his friend wants a serious relationship, and I'm just looking to date at the moment if that. I'm still just working on myself. However it's very nice to get male attention. It helps with the self-esteem :) [Note to self... *Get a health club membership to make up for the fact that you won't be walking as much or if at all, when you get a driver's license...] Oh, back on track, well, perhaps I might get lead foot, etc. I did, however accidently do a California Stop that I wasn't supposed to do [in front of my instructor]. I got reminded (along with a chuckle), please do a *full* stop.
MorphGrrl
nomorestr ...@aol.com (NoMoreStraws)
ADHD people do have more accidents and get more tickets than non-ADHD. Don't have the stats to support this because they probably do not exist...yet.
From anectdotal histories, I've known of one ADHD "kid" who got over 100 tickets (mostly for speeding). Although his father is a well-connected lawyer (and dean of one of our law schools), the boy has spent many a night in jail, trying to "teach him a lesson." He's also experienced many suspended licenses, too. But as soon as he gets it back, he gets a ticket.
I know of one ADHD kid who got two tickets the first week he had his license.
The second one was for hitting a tree. The boy survived with only his humility bruised. He tried a second round of driver's ed and counseling, and now at age 22 still speeds, rides the bumper of the cars in front, vocally complains about every minor driving infraction he sees around him as he drives, and just last week had another fender bender from this behavior. He does not mean to do these things. He is just not aware of the "speeded up" behavior he exhibits.
AND he is on medication for ADD.
My own ADD nephew has been driving for one year. To date, he has had one wreck (hit a tree, too - drove car home, no damages to self) and gotten one speeding ticket costing his parents $150.
Next installment later. I do not know a large number of ADD/ADHD people, but I know a few too many. And everyone I know has driving stories to tell about.
Ann ann...@thecia.net
And I know more than one non ADHD kid who got tons of tickets for speeding. ADHD doesn't mean you're going to speed, or be reckless.
It can mean that you aren't paying proper attention to driving.....but ADHD people hold no records in bad driving.
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Ann ann...@thecia.net
nomorestr ...@aol.com (NoMoreStraws)
I appreciate your sentiments, Ann, but you are wrong about people with ADD.
There are a number of characteristics they have in common that go unnoticed by the casual observer. Bad driving records is just one of them. Over time you will see that this is an issue. Remember, ADD/ADHD, while alive and well forever, has only been in the spotlight for about a generation. The stats on the adults of that generation are just now in the making, as we speak.
Mark Probert markprob...@lumbarcartel.com
See: J Int Neuropsychol Soc 2002 Jul;8(5):655-72 Related Articles, Links Driving in young adults with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: knowledge, performance, adverse outcomes, and the role of executive functioning.
Barkley RA, Murphy KR, Dupaul GI, Bush T.
Department of Psychiatry, University of M***achusetts Medical School, Worcester 01655, USA. Barkl...@ummhc.org Past studies find that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) creates a higher risk for adverse driving outcomes. This study comprehensively evaluated driving in adults with ADHD by comparing 105 young adults with the disorder (age 17-28) to 64 community control (CC) adults on five domains of driving ability and a battery of executive function tasks. The ADHD group self-reported significantly more traffic citations, particularly for speeding, vehicular crashes, and license suspensions than the CC group, with most of these differences corroborated in the official DMV records. Cognitively, the ADHD group was less attentive and made more errors during a visual reaction task under rule-reversed conditions than the CC group. The ADHD group also obtained lower sceres on a test of driving rules and decision-making but not on a simple driving simulator. Both self- and other-ratings showed the CC group employed safer routine driving habits than the ADHD group.
Relationships between the cognitive and driving measures and the adverse outcomes were limited or absent, calling into question their use in screening ADHD adults for driving risks. Several executive functions also were significantly yet modestly related to accident frequency and total traffic violations after controlling for severity of ADHD. These results are consistent with earlier studies showing significant driving problems are ***ociated with ADHD. This study found that these driving difficulties were not a function of comorbid oppositional defiant disorder, depression, anxiety, or frequency of alcohol or illegal drug use. Findings to date argue for the development of interventions to reduce driving risks among adults with ADHD.
Publication Types: * Clinical Trial PMID: 12164675 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] and...
J Atten Disord 2002 Jun;6(1):25-38 Related Articles, Links Driving anger and other driving-related behaviors in high and low ADHD symptom college students.
Richards T, Deffenbacher J, Rosen L.
Department of Psychology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523-1876, USA.
This study examined differences between college students with high and low symptoms of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).
Fifty-nine introductory psychology students completed ADHD diagnostic measures and were compared on measures of driving anger and driving anger expression; accident-related, aggressive, and risky driving behaviors; general anger; and general anger expression. Results indicated high ADHD symptom college students experience more driving anger, display such anger in more hostile/aggressive ways, are more aggressive and risky on the road, experience more crash-related outcomes, are more generally angry, and tend to display anger in socially unacceptable ways. Results are discussed in regard to the understanding and treatment of ADHD.
PMID: 12045758 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Anger is not a symptom of ADHD, but a reaction to the crap.
Ann ann...@thecia.net
You seem to think I am unacquainted with ADHD. I'd like to see a statistical analysis of bad driving across the board. How many bad drivers will be ADHD? Probably the same percentage of the population in relation. You can throw generalizations around about all aspects of life/ADHD. Back them up.
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Ann ann...@thecia.net
"Sum Wun" Sum...@SumWhere.els
Mark, Thanks for the information. I wonder if those without hyperactivity are more accident prone than the average driver. I guess they have only studied those with hyperactivity.
...
Mark Probert markprob...@lumbarcartel.com
The most common cause of MVA is stupidity, not ADHD, etc.
Morph Grrl some...@nowhereelse.com
On Wed, 14 May 2003 21:17:43 GMT, Mark Probert <good stuff snipped> I know that off of meds I have a difficult time trying to concentrate on what's going on. I am a much better driver on meds than off of them. However I wonder if those with ADHD and a good driving record have had to develop some coping mechanism that may be somewhat obsessive so that it can help them remember to concenetrate while driving? Curious about that...
MorphGrrl
"Sum Wun" Sum...@SumWhere.els
<g>I wonder if they have medicine for that....
Seriously, I think it depends on where you are and how you define stupidity.
I live in the Washington, DC area which is probably one of the worst places in the world to drive. Most of the accidents here are not simple mistakes but caused by aggressive behavior. If you're prone to anger then you're going to have a lot of opportunities to get mad. Also, you really can't afford to not pay attention because someone is always about to cut you off.
<snipped>
dr ...@wpi.edu (Deborah M Riel)
I hope this is true--my son with ADHD is 16 1/2 now, and old enough to get his license. I know how easily he is distracted, and how much he likes to fool around with his friends, without thinking about what he's doing.
I've seen Dr. Amen's comments that kids with ADHD typically run about 3 years behind their peers without ADHD in maturity levels. That would put him on the maturity level of a 13 1/2 yr old, and in a lot of ways, I can see that. Not all, but particularly in the way he fools around a lot. He's physical with his friends in a way that most 16 yr olds are growing out of--pushy, slappy, silly kind of way.
Right now, he's not interested in driving. As soon as he turned old enough to drive, he started thinking that maybe he wouldn't be a good driver.
Do you think it helps the kid with ADHD to wait until he/she is older and maybe closes that maturity gap a little? Could that be one of the reasons that ADHD drivers have a bad reputation? I'm wondering if I should encourage him to get his license, or if I should encourage him to wait a few years?
Deb R.
nomorestr ...@aol.com (NoMoreStraws)
Let (make) him wait as long as you can. You are right about the maturity gap; and what we are finding as that generation grows up is that even in adulthood there is a maturity gap. It is beginning to look like it may never truly close. That does not mean that these kids will not become mature adults and fully responsible, but when compared to same age peers, there is a mildly perceptible difference in maturity in relating to people and to life's challenges. Nevertheless, these adults manage adult life adequately and this is not seen as necessarily a negative. It could be simply because they see the world slightly differently than the rest of us. But YES; as long as it doesn't become a serious power-struggle between the two of you which could cause unnecessary family turmoil, hold off as long as possible with the driving license. He's not the first ADHD kid who surprised his parents by not asking for that coveted license as soon as he turned 16. So enjoy the hiatus. He WILL eventually ask for it.
Best to you.
nomorestr ...@aol.com (NoMoreStraws)
No, I think you have an ADD or ADHD kid at home and you know a lot about it, but you are still learning, as we all are. Please read the posts prior to the one from you to which I am responding. The stats are there. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if you want to believe it or not. I find denial an interesting personality characteristic in many people. Enjoy the ostraches.
"J. Clarke" jcla...@nospam.invalid
On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:07:41 +0000 (UTC) dr...@wpi.edu (Deborah M Riel) wrote: The problem with ADHD and driving is that it's difficult to generalize--some ADDers are dangerous on a bicycle, others have no trouble handling Formula 1 cars in traffic at full racing speed. But the same is true for people in general, and teenagers tend to be less that ideal drivers whether they have ADHD or are neurotypical.
If he's concerned that he won't be a good driver, personally I'd accept his judgment--few kids will make that judgment so if one does it's probably a good idea to accept it. OTOH, it's concievable that he just doesn't have any confidence in himself--while I wouldn't press the driving issue, it's probably worthwhile to find out whether he does lack self-confidence and if so to do whatever is necessary to help him develop some.
FWIW, I got my license when I was 16, and while I drove like a maniac, and have had fender-benders with some regularity, I didn't total a car until I was in my mid'30s and that was a head on with drunk driving in a snowstorm under suspension in a stolen Pinto who couldn't decide what lane he wanted to drive in, so I can't really blame ADHD for it. And so far there hasn't been anybody injured except the drunk (Volvo vs Pinto head on the Pinto loses).
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--John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Ann ann...@thecia.net
Whatever they are. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the truth.
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Ann ann...@thecia.net
Morph Grrl some...@nowhereelse.com
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:12:24 -0400, "J. Clarke" MorphGrrl
Mark Probert markprob...@lumbarcartel.com
snip...
Verry big agreement. OS was able to get his license several years ago, and has chosen to forego getting it. He does notfeel comfortable behind a wheel.
He also saw some extremely, very gruesome 8X10 color glossies of a fatal accident where the driver was partially ejected from the p***enger side of the SUV just before it rolled over on him and used him as a skid for a couple of dozen yards.
OTOH, it's concievable that he just doesn't have any I did not press it as i respect his judgment. With Newsday running a multi-day series on how dangerous driving is here, I won;t begin to press it.
My friend Vic is a big fan of Volvo's. He's rolled two, and was driven over by a tractor trailer. And walked away smiling.
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