Antisocial Personality Traits in the Autistic Spectrum
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neanthum ...@yahoo.com (N?ant Humain)
Perhaps some of you frequent IRC channels and Web message boards for autism and Asperger's syndrome. What I at least have noticed is there are a few people with much in common with antisocial personality disorder in people who claim to have been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome or high-functioning autism. Maybe they are trolls who get a rise out of disturbing people weaker than themselves; but these self-proclaimed aspies have a tendency to lie, ask rude and blunt questions (and it seems they are aware that the questions are rude), evade channel and network bans, use various aliases, etc.
I know most of my fellow autistics are good, honest people; but this trend is troubling, to say the least. This could indicate that Asperger's syndrome is being diagnosed too liberally if these antisocial "aspies" have been diagnosed at all or that some antisocials are using pervasive developmental disorders as a convenient mask for their deviance. Most worrisome of all, some of our autistic peers may have developed antisocial personality structures because of their inability to relate with society meaningfully.
dontbothermeplease3 ...@hotmail.com (Hylander)
I think you've touched on a rather explosive issue. Many autistics feel threatened by the antisocial (esp. psychopathic liars) and so may feel insulted while at the same time, using similar tactics at times.
I know it is not impossible for aspies to lie (but they suck at it) and it is sometimes easy for autistics to grasp at every possible straw they think of to rationalize something. (browser brained and sometimes forgetful of certain critical details). The problem is that there are some anti-socials that seem to have the psychopathic trend that seems almost opposite to autism. ie: very high confrontation/get off on overload/socially skilled but logically impaired.
I think it is explosive because so many people throw the word "antisocial" around in so many contexts/out of context and so liberally IMHO. Many understand the real meaning but they often are quick to judge what is antisocial just as many are quick to judge what is autistic. Semantically speaking, "anti" "social" describes much of autism but not really "anti-social" IMHO. It might be erroneous to equate the two...perhaps subsoncious and subtly implied. The ambiguity seems to have created a debate (here or somewhere) at one point in the past.
I do appreciate that you acknowledge that not all autistics are like that. It is really hard to pin any one "external comorbidity" set to autism other than a few very characteristic traits.. (ie: the so called "triad" of impairments...(not to be confused with the "triad" gangsters :O>).) John
Sojourner KetchYurChickensW...@cox.net
Has this been happening here? (***uming this is what you mean by Web message board) Sojo "Oh, it DOES it smell like krap! But I didn't know it was 'really' krap I was smelling though because I have these meds you see and............"
Rowe Rickenbacker use...@templeofdreams.net
What?!
Rowe the master manipulator
Sojourner KetchYurChickensW...@cox.net
What?
Sojo
Rowe Rickenbacker use...@templeofdreams.net
What did you mean in the quote / example / analogy thing?
Rowe
"Joel Smith" j...@autistics.us
I don't know that lieing, rude/blunt questions, evading, aliases, etc are a sign that someone is not autistic. Autistic people, like NTs, can be good people or bad people. There is a myth out there that autistic people only do morally good things (not in the Christian morality sense, but in the generally accepted societial sense), don't lie, can't manipulate, etc -
that's exactly that, a myth. Lieing, for instance, doesn't make someone non-autistic even if it might make them a bad person.
Sometimes the rude/blunt questions is a result of autism. I won't say the rest is a result of autism (although it can be a result of abuse).
--
Joel
Sojourner KetchYurChickensW...@cox.net
It had nothing to do with the subject. It was just something that came out. You know...an ADD moment.
;-) SOjo
Rowe Rickenbacker use...@templeofdreams.net
That I can understand.
Rowe
"proma1" pro...@ntlworld.com
what does the writer of this actually mean i have behavioural problems and so do many aspergers and ND people it does not mean i am anti social as such,but i recognise certain trhings male me do certain things,that result in me throwing things/screming and shouting,they dont result in me attacking people physically,words yes but i attack myself as well with the words.
and i do things that i dont contro and i hate that be it,picking my nose and eating or suddenly ranting and raving,i never do it out of malice,i will be kind caring and calm before and then 5 minites after be the same again.
even so some termed more anti social,still need the support of society to help them improve.
and many in prison today are Aspergers/Dyspraxic/Tourettess and on a recent study many young offenders were shown to be dyslexic at vary least,this has a profound effect on society and if we can help kids as there problems develop then maybe we can prevent things from getting worse.
to say such people on here are trolls is actually pretty inuslting,they like you are seeking help and guidance and explanations,for me after 37 years not knwoing why i did things,i at least now see others with exactly same problems and that helps me at least to see that i am one of many.
i am seeking help for my behaviours,but some on these groups say our behaviours need to just be accepted,well maybe one day,but for now i am trying whatever i can to change,but sadly the support for me is not there from local social services.
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Kalen n...@paradox.freeserve.co.uk
This is not a web message board, so I don't know why you'd ***ume this is what they're referring to.
--
Kalen A World Apart (updated June 26) http://www.worldapart.org/
Sojourner KetchYurChickensW...@cox.net
I knew you would. You're not on the Dark Side of of the force.
Sojo......feeling very ambiguous today.
Sojourner KetchYurChickensW...@cox.net
Maybe its the terms 'post' 'thread' and 'message' which are bulletin board terms or something in that manner that can refer to a newsgroup, and that some people might call it a web message board for lack of the better term. Beins' I don't remember such a thing. Maybe a guestbook, a feedback column and a wiki or diary or something like that?
Sojo
Molybdenum cn...@sympatico.ca
You know, I can't figure out why the Jedi are so hell bent on "bringing balance to the Force" when they're *dominant*. Don't they understand that the only way to balance that is to tip the scales *out* of their own favour???
I suppose it's admirable that they consider "balance" more important that "winning", but c'mon, what do they expect if they go off training the most powerful Jedi *ever* with the clearly stated intention of countering their own power?
Oh well. Evil will prevail, at least temporarily.
Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith.
Monica Then those silly twins will have to balance it back the other way...
Kalen n...@paradox.freeserve.co.uk
I thought they meant message boards, located on the wwweb (which this isn't, as I understand it). For example, this site is full of them: http://www.ivillage.com/ (Just an example. not relevant to autism or this group) I think Delphi may still do them. Sometimes called web forums, perhaps.
Definitely have threading normally and posts and messages. So do e-mail lists, for that matter (although threading depends on the client). Some systems like Yahoo Groups combine message board and e-mail list features (along with some other stuff).
--
Kalen A World Apart (updated June 26) http://www.worldapart.org/
Nightingale s...@music.ca
Some Star Wars humour -
http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/sty_sbh0.htm
--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely to be imployed to that ende.
Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.
-William Byrd
Nightingale s...@music.ca
For anyone using google, usenet and web forums look very similar.
--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely to be imployed to that ende.
Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.
-William Byrd
Nightingale s...@music.ca
I have yet to see anyone here who looks like a troll.
--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely to be imployed to that ende.
Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.
-William Byrd
sggaB ama...@autistics.org
I was thinking something similar.
When I originally found usenet, I was using BBSes with a Usenet feed, so I originally wrote of them as "boards". (Not "web boards", but I can see a similar mistake being made modernly.)
--
This post may be more literal, unemotional, or impersonal than it looks. This FAQ has details: http://www.mugsy.org/asa_faq/
Chakolate chakolateDeathToSpamm...@allvantage.com
Yabbut, lots of people think that usenet is made up of bulletin boards, too. Chakolate
--
When people show you who they are, believe them.
--Maya Angelou
Chakolate chakolateDeathToSpamm...@allvantage.com
Aw, thanks! But then, you don't see me when I first get up. ;-) Chakolate
--
When people show you who they are, believe them.
--Maya Angelou
neanthum ...@yahoo.com (N?ant Humain)
I'm not talking about anyone on alt.support.autism. I'm thinking of a few people who've come to support channels for Asperger's syndrome and other autistic spectrum disorders on various IRC networks. They've gone by a copious number of online nicks, and I don't even know the exact number of people who seem to be antisocials because of the aliases and ban evasion tactics. They tend to be able to morph their personality style effortlessly, which I would think difficult for most of my fellow ACs.
These people tend to exhibit clear symptoms of a psychopathic personality as indicated on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy>.
On the so-called "Interpersonal Dimension" (or "Antisocial Lifestyle") of the Hare Psychopathy Checlist - Revised, some of these people have exhibited: * Need for stimulation/Proneness to boredom (e.g., demanding others start an interesting conversation for them) * Parasitic lifestyle (e.g., a desire to use a diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome for welfare income so that they don't need to find a job; expecting everyone else to provide for their wants and needs) * Irresponsibility (e.g., refuses to stop har***ment when asked, accuses others of doing exactly what he or she is currently doing) On the "Affective Dimension": * Glibness/Superficial charm (e.g., being courteous and friendly in the open chat room and then har***ing people once they get into a private conversation) * Pathological lying (e.g., will make up lame lies when told something is inappropriate for the channel, will lie about life details and possibly even diagnosis) * Shallow affect (All of these people/aliases that have exhibited the above and below psychopathic traits have claimed they don't have much emotion or feeling at all or say they are prone to bouts of rage) * Callous/lack of empathy (Not in the autistic way of not picking up on social signals either.) * Failure to accept responsibility for own actions (See above.) I don't know whether it's possible for someone to genuinely be on the autistic spectrum and be a psychopath or have an antisocial personality structure. I suppose it's possible. I can see some superficial overlap between the two, though; however, I think the underlying causes for the overlap are very different.
Nightingale s...@music.ca
LOL! Sometimes it's a good thing that this is text only :-)
--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely to be imployed to that ende.
Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.
-William Byrd
Rowe Rickenbacker use...@templeofdreams.net
It *is* an internet message board of sorts...
Rowe
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