add and walkman??
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Behavior TreatmentOppositional Defiant DisorderProblem Solving | Special EducationTreating AdhdTrouble Focusing |
"z" z...@y.x.invalid
Our son has ADD. My spouse insists on letting him have a CD WalkMan (portable CD player). He is given permission to listen to the WalkMan even while he is doing homework.
She thinks that by telling him that he should only listen to cl***ical music rather than rap or hip-hop, he will follow her wishes.
I think giving our son a WalkMan is a bad idea. I think it would interrupt his concentration and just give him more temptation.
He should learn to do homework without music. I recall reading something (perhaps a web site) which reinforced my impression that a WalkMan is a bad idea for ADD students (my recollection is that TV, GameBoy and surfing the Internet fell into the same category).
Which is right, my spouse or myself??? ;-)
Joe Parsons a...@yankeemedia.n3t
For many people (I *know* it's true for me), a normal level of ambient noise can distract. While neurotypicals can filter that noise--a car going by, a dog barking, the creak of a floor--an ADD person finds his or her attention being pulled irresistibly toward it.
I have found that certain music covers up that ambient noise and makes concentration on a particular task possible. I tend to listen to "smooth jazz" or cl***ical music without a lot of rhythmic content. For cl***ical, I do well with Mozart, but *terribly* with Bach (he's much too interesting!).
On the "smooth jazz" side, I listen to artists like Dave Koz.
While we all "should" be able to get along without any sort of ***istance, the fact remains that many do need some sort of help; just buckling down and toughing it out is not even an option for many.
You might try sitting down with your son and negotiate something on a trial basis. I can't for the life of me see how anyone could listen to hip hop music and get *anything* done, but people are all different. If I were dealing with your situation, I think I'd make some kind of deal for specific performance. If he has a problem finishing work, give him some achievement benchmarks. Let him try doing his work with music, but also with the understanding that he has to show some very specific improvement to be able to continue. I think if you look at the music as a sort of tool that may be useful rather than a privilege, you might make some headway.
HTH, Joe Parsons
"QBall" qbal...@btinternet.com
If you go to addforums.com, you'll see that SOME ADDers find that music aids concentration.
Why are you being so negative about it ?
Why not wait to see if it works before you condemn it ?
Is it because you want to punish him ?
...
"Sumbuny" IGNORETHISsumb...@cox.net
We all learn in different ways. I was not diagnosed as ADHD until 10 years after my sons were, at age 36. I was in honors/gifted cl***es in school, and my doc believes that this masked my problems. One thing I *do* remember is that I could *not* study/do homework when it was too quiet--I heard *everything* (clock ticking, cars drivgin by, etc) and each "interruption" was hihgly distracting. I did so much better when I had the radio on--and yes, it was rock, not cl***ical. It created "white noise" that was more steady in nature, and less distracting than total silence punctuated with periods of noise.
My thoughts would be to give it a try--if he does well with his walkman, then no problem. If his study habits/grades decline, then go back to not having it.
Buny
Sojourner CuzYerMammySai...@ThatsWhy.cox.net
Neither.
Music can really enhance or distract concentration in a person with ADD.
The theory is that sometimes, just one distraction 'music' is favorable to many smaller one like car horns, birds, kids playing, the tv, clock.
humming refridgerator, etc.
Others prefer earplugs and a silent place while silence can itself be an overwhelming noise to others.
Then ask the kid and test the results!
Ask the kid. If his explaination is valid, then test it.
SOjo
Sojourner CuzYerMammySai...@ThatsWhy.cox.net
Well, it IS hip-hop you know.
=) SOjo....who likes hip-hop cds....launched from a clay pidgeon thrower.
Stan s...@appendix.cosmo.pasadena.ca.us
Just to add my US $0.02 to what the others have said, there are some people who find that music helps them concentrate. I'm one of them.
The walkman first came on the market when I was in college, and it was a great thing. With it, I could actually go to the library and do my reserve room reading. Without it, if it's too quiet I couldn't concentrate. I needed that distraction to occupy part of my brain so that it wouldn't bug the other part that was reading.
Even now, I have music going all day at work, and it helps a lot. I'm particularly fond of KMFDM when it comes time for some heavy-duty programming on the computer.
--
Stan Schwarz | Extreme sports...offer "some kind of physical http://cosmo.pasadena.ca.us | analog to the thrill of installing Linux or | other open-source operating systems." | -Mikki Halpin, _The Geek Handbook_
Katherine Wolfe wolfm...@aracnet.com
What I think might work better for your son is if he can learn what strategies help foster better concentration, and what things distract him. There's unfortunately no fixed, one-size-fits-all answer to that question, either. The ADD brain is wired just a bit differently than other people's, and what works for other children might not work for your son. I've heard stories of ADD kids studying wonderfully well with the Rolling Stones blaring at ear-splitting volume, and others that can't concentrate because they can hear the wind rustling the leaves on the trees outside the house. And still others, like me, who swing between those two poles depending on the day, and the task I'm working on.
So, there really isn't a definitive answer to the question of whether your son should use a walkman or not. It depends on whether it helps him concentrate, or not. If it does, why not use it?
Katherine
Velvet Elvis gamb...@REMOVEsofthome.THISnet
For me it depends. When I'm reading, silence is best, but music that I'm familiar with is better than random background noise. Pretty much, if I'm not the only person in the house, I need some other noise with a predictable pattern to mask out the random noises of footsteps and doors opening and closing. This has been true for me since I was a kid. When I'm writing, music seems to help me stay on task. What kind of music it is makes a big difference. If I'm familiar with it, I'm less likely to be distracted by stopping to actively listen to it. If I have the radio on, it pretty much has to be public radio or a college station because commercials always make me loose my train of thought. If I'm studying for an exam or doing math or formal logic problems, I generally put on hard rock or punk. I read in some ADD book that every person has their own unique environmental requirements for focusing on work. I think this is very true. The trick is to figure out what they are. It doesn't matter if you read best in bed with the covers over your head using a flashlight.
Something that I did as a kid, before I was even diagnosed with ADD was move around a lot while I was doing my homework. I'd work at the kitchen table for a while, then go to my room, then work in front of the TV for a while, then go sit on the front porch swing and work. I still work that way. If I didn't have a laptop, I'm not sure if I'd ever get some work done. I'll work at home for a while, the go to the burger king next door for a while (with a walkman), then go sit in a park for a while. The inability to sit in one place for longer than thirty minutes doesn't have to be an impediment to getting work done. In households where multiple people have ADD, there can be conflicts. My fiance pretty much has to have NPR talk radio on when she works. I can't get anything done with it on. As a kid I preferred having music playing loud from my stereo speakers rather than from a walkman, as the physical sensation of the headphones was slightly distracting. My mom couldn't stand it though. I needed the music loud enough to drown out the noise of everything else going on in the house, a volume which was loud enough to be quite distracting for her.
In summation, if your kid says that doing (x) helps him study, it probably does. It doesn't matter how counter-intuitive it may seem to you. If it's sitting in front of the TV, listening to loud music, standing up, sitting on the floor, pacing holding a book, going to the library, whatever. If it works, go with it. Try the walkman. If he does less schoolwork with it on, take it away from him.
Velvet Elvis gamb...@REMOVEsofthome.THISnet
Exactly what I was trying to say, but much more concise. My meds must be wearing off. =)
Linda Li...@nospam.com
white noise can be soothing to the CNS and an effective filter of outside distractions that enable the hyperactive and easily distracted to focus on their tasks.
"J. Clarke" jcla...@nospam.invalid
There's a lot of speculation about what music does for ADHD but little hard research--anecdotally it _does_ help some of us--whether it helps _all_ of us is another story.
Different people respond differently. Personally I find that the _right_ music is very helpful but the _wrong_ music is not. Enya works very nicely for me. I'm surprised to find that some Techno (a genre, not a band) works for me as well as long as I don't turn it up too high. I haven't found any cl***ical that really works for me, everything I've tried distracts me, but I understand that some of Mozart's music works for some people.
Haven't tried rap or hip-hop but wouldn't automatically condemn either of them--might work fine for some people. I also find that using a visualizer instead of having the TV on helps--the visualizer seems to do whatever the TV does for my nervous system without having any kind of story line to suck me in. Winamp 5 comes with a nice visualizer, an improved version of my favorite.
The trouble with TV, games, and the Internet are that all of them can engage hyperfocus and once that has happened everything else falls by the wayside.
Personally I haven't found that music of any kind has that effect on me.
Be very cautious about ADHD information on the Web--far more of what's out there is political than medical.
--
--John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Sumbuny" IGNORETHISsumb...@cox.net
<G> And all this time I thought "if it is on the web, it must be true!" <duck> Buny
m ...@earthlink.net (Emma Anne)
I much prefer absolute silence when I am trying to concentrate. I was very surprised to learn that some ADDers do better with background noise.
"Sumbuny" IGNORETHISsumb...@cox.net
<G> *If* it remained absolutely silent, I could probably handle it...but you might be surprised at how many things make noise around the house...and it is the things that make intermittant noise that can be the most distracting!
<G> I use a radio to form white noise of a sort...it is on and varies constantly, as opposed to having silence punctuated with sounds at random moments...
Buny
Velvet Elvis gamb...@REMOVEsofthome.THISnet
I spent today working on Kant paper while listening to Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music. The closer "music" comes to becoming pure white noise, the more suitable it is for listening to while trying to focus.
"J. Clarke" jcla...@nospam.invalid
Has to have a little structure for me. I find white noise (_did_ try it) to be no real improvement over silence.
--
--John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"z" z...@y.x.invalid
We are (my spouse is) letting our son call the shots when it comes to the CD WalkMan.
I do not see that it makes much improvement if any.
We tell him no hip-hop or rap while doing homework, only cl***ical and so on, but it is hard to tell what he is playing at any moment, and generally his word is not altogether trustworthy (at age 16 and a junior in high school).
During times of intense pressure (eg midterms) the entire family and school gets into the "blame game." I am wondering if anyone out there has rigged a CD WalkMan to play only one CD (maybe with epoxy or masking tape)...
...
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"z" z...@y.x.invalid
My own personal experience as the dad and suspected carrier of the ADD gene: I grew up somewhat musically inclined, with my teen years during the '60s. I played guitar (somewhat above average player).
Thus, if I hear any kind of music, it tends to steal my attention from whatever else I am doing.
If it is bad music, my mind revolts.
If it is good music, my mind follows.
Either way, my mind pays attention.
However, I gradually determined (starting in my mid 30s) that I could focus better with either ear muffs or a WalkMan playing "white noise" or nature sounds (beach, rain, etc.).
My son has dabbled in various instruments (violin, piano, clarinet, etc., lessons funded courtesy of his parents) but has never stuck to anything or become very adept on any musical instrument.
An exception to this is drums, which he only recently tried (on his own)-- his drum rhythym seems to be solid.
So my suspicion for my son is that rap and hip-hop music likewise steal his mind's attention from his homework. I further suspect that cl***ical music is not much better at focusing his attention on music.
My spouse enjoys cl***ical music as a listener and as a member of an amateur chorus. She does not seem to have ADD.
So it is difficult to convince her that even cl***ical music could steal attention away from an ADD person who is trying to study...
"Sumbuny" IGNORETHISsumb...@cox.net
<G> I know how that can happen at times...but FWIW, I always did study better with some kind of noise in the background (radio, tv, etc), and I am also musically inclined (played clarinet in school band, currently play folk guitar and keyboard synthesizer in church choir--also cantor/direct/mezzo soprano there <G>). I have not had the problem of my mind getting trapped into the music I use as white noise...however, I *do* have the tendency to "analyse" music I hear on the radio when I am not studying...my husband (whom I met in band) and my sons are also musicians--and when we are in the car with the radio on, we have been known to debate how a popular song would be transcribed for marching band <G>.
<G> It could be that this is because it doesn't *always* do so (see my story)...but I agree that it *could*...
"One size does not fit all...heck, one size don't even fit most!" Buny
"z" z...@y.x.invalid
...
One wonders, have there been any studies that show a correlation between inclination towards performing music of some sort, and ADHD?
(I'll avoid the obvious temptation towards one-upmanship... or perhaps in today's PC lingo, one-up-person-ship... ;-) And I have fantasized about playing electric b*** in a marching band ;-) ... based on the premise that my spouse would probably not allow me to do a cruise ship gig... ;-) ;-) ;-) I play 4 and 5 string electric b***, left handed, fretted and fretless.
One thing I did make sure of before the dot com implosion was that I had adequate equipment for the forseeable future ;-) My singing voice is non-descript, ranging between b*** and the next level up (baritone?). However, one of my future projects is to put some work into learning backup harmony vocals for cl***ic folk / cl***ic rock...
-z
Katz Heitmann katz...@mindspring.com
I never learned to do homework without music. Each ADDer is different.
Try it for one week and check his homework afterwards. If he gets fewer errors let him do what he's been doing. If it's worse then take the disk man away during homework because it's distracting then try another week of it. One week won't ruin him. Homework is boring and if he listens to music it might be a little easier for him to concentrate and stay in his chair. Maybe not.
Couldn't hurt to give it a try. I used to listen to music all the time while doing homework as a kid. I'd say let him and tell him that homework is his responsibility not yours you'll help him when he has a problem but won't do it for him. Eventually it wil work out just don't let it ruin your relationship with your wife. The kid will survive whether he listens to rock n roll heavy metal or cl***ic or decides he can't concentrate with that racket going on. I say you read the paper and say yes dear you're absolutely right as long as it doesn't involve a felony then he''l grow up just fine.
Make sure the homework gets checked for completion and you know all his friends. Then you're kid will survive just fine. I used to listen to guns and Roses and twisted sister and I turned out ok. A kid may make bad choices as long as you care about him he'll be ok.
Velvet Elvis gamb...@REMOVEsofthome.THISnet
There's always the option of playing music where everyone can hear it.
Katz Heitmann katz...@mindspring.com
The music helps me block out what is going on around me and concentrate better. If it's familiar then it isn't distracting at all. Even heavy metal helps me block out the sounds that are distracting me like flies biting me almost. When I'm working on my car I like music or doing mindless chores I listen to music to help me not be so bored. Homework if I remember is mind numbingly dull maybe having music might keep him from getting out of his chair or being bored.
It off loads the frontal lobe. A kid in Anthropologist on Mars written by Oliver Sacks had a brain tumor the size of a god damned grape fruit in his head and it took out the frontal lobe the ****er was blind and his personality changed. He finally had to be locked up but he seemed to get better whenever the grateful dead was playing or any music. His memory was all messed up but he remembered the grateful dead. It has very little to do with ADD but the fact was I have a threory on this.
You can ride the pattern of the music and shut down your frontal lobe partially or maybe totally then use the juice that you would normally on the C&C part of your brain for other things.
What you have to understand is I been unmedicated most of my life for ADD. Your kid might be different but then again she might be absolutely right. Give her the benefit of the doubt and try it for a while if it doesn't work you can change it later. You don't have to do everything right to be parents. Somethings your kid is responsible for and one day he will grow up and you ain't in charge of him anymore.
Why is this such a big deal so what if he blows it for one week it won't kill him? I made ok grades in high school after working so hard to get main streamed out. It doesn't matter if he tanks it for a week. It's a bunch of bullshit anyway.
Katz Heitmann katz...@mindspring.com
It's his life not yours. If he ****s it up he has to deal with it not you. I'd say get off his back and on his side. In two years he'll be all grown up and want to get away from you jerks. If he flunks this year then it might turn him in the right direction. He'll dismiss you as a prick if you try to tell him that so I say let him fail quit trying to protect him so much. If you don't give him so much static and take a detached attitude then he might start feeling stressed and taking this stuff seriously. One failed year as opposed to the rest of his life.
It's not your responsibility that he gets the homework done. Do you want to be doing his taxes and handling the stuff he ought to do for the rest of your life ending up with a son who doesn't take responsibility for himself while you feel the strain? I'd say let it be and quit the games. Tell him straight out that you aren't going to get involved eventually after a year or two he'll understand that you are tired of making sure he gets his stuff done.
No matter what you do to the cd player he'll probably find a way around it. So whatever you are afraid will happen let it happen it's called tough love. Letting him know that what he does or doesn't do has consequences not you punishing him the outside world like if he doesn't get it done and turned in he'll flunk eleventh grade. If he flunks then next time he'll care and he'll work hard to p*** for the year.
I don't think it's the music it's his attitude towards school. It matters maybe if he has to stay back when his friends go onto twelveth and getting laughted at will help him get in gear quit fooling around and put his back into it. He needs to learn about responsibility more than he needs to p*** for the year or graduate from high school. He's nearly a man so he needs to learn it now.
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