Rant about ADD/ADHD treatment in the USA
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"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
Here in the USA, a lot of kids are on drugs which relieve the symptoms of ADD. The number of prescriptions for these drugs has skyrocketed in the past decade. Most of the drugs given to children for ADD\ADHD are amphetamines, methamphetamines or methylphenidate, which is similar in effect to amphetamines.
More and more, I am hearing from people that ADD\ADHD is a fake illness made up by drug companies. Here's what I've found out (quoted from Wikipedia): . 1845. ADHD was first described by Dr. Heinrich Hoffman , a physician who wrote books on medicine and psychiatry, Dr. Hoffman was also a poet who became interested in writing for children when he couldn't find suitable materials to read to his 3-year-old son. The result was a book of poems, complete with illustrations, about children and their characteristics. "The Story of Fidgety Philip" was an accurate description of a little boy who had attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.http://www.fln.vcu.edu/struwwel/philipp_e.html . 1867 - The term "hyperactive" is first used in reference to the "condition of the brain in acute mania." (Source: Oxford English Dictionary Online) . 1902 - The English pediatrician George Still described a condition analogous to ADHD. He published a series of lectures to the Royal College of Physicians in England in which he described a group of impulsive children with significant behavioral problems, caused by a genetic dysfunction and not by poor child rearing-children who today would be easily recognized as having ADHD. He regarded it as innate and not caused by the environment.
Since then, several thousand scientific papers on the disorder have been published, providing information on its nature, course, causes, impairments, and treatments . The 1918-1919 influenza pandemic left many survivors with encephalitis, affecting their neurological functions. Some of these exhibited immediate behavioral problems which correspond to ADD. This caused many to believe that the condition was the result of injury rather than genetics.
. 1937 - Dr. Bradley in Providence RI reported that a group of children with behavioral problems improved after being treated with stimulant medication.
. 1957 - The stimulant Methylphenidate (Ritalin) became available. It remains one of the most widely prescribed medications for ADHD in its various forms (Ritalin, Focalin, Concerta, Medadate, and Methylin).
. 1960 - Stella Chess described "Hyperactive Child Syndrome" introducing the concept of hyperactivity not being caused by brain damage. ( http://campus.houghton.edu/orgs/psychology/student/adhd/sld004.htm) . By 1966, following observations that the condition existed without any objectively observed pathological disorder or injury, researchers changed the terminology from Minimal Brain Damage to Minimal Brain Dysfunction.
(Source: Oxford English Dictionary Online) . 1970s - Canadian Virginia Douglas released various publications to promote the idea that attention deficit was of more significance than the hyperactivity, influencing the American Psychiatric ***ociation.
http://faculty.ashrosary.org/faculty/counseling/ADHDNotes.htm . ~1971 - The Church of Scientology set up the Citizen's Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), which lobbied using the media against psychiatric medication in general, and Ritalin in particular.
. 1973 - Dr Ben F. Feingold, Chief of Allergy at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in San Francisco, claimed that hyperactivity was increasing in proportion to the level of food additives.
. 1975 - Pemoline (Cylert) is approved by the FDA for use in the treatment of ADHD. While an effective agent for managing the symptoms, the development of liver failure in at least 14 cases over the next 27 years would result in the manufacturer withdrawing this medication from the market.
. 1980 - The name Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) was first introduced in DSM-III, the 1980 edition.
. 1987 - The DSM-IIIR was released changing the diagnosis to "Undifferentiated Attention Deficit Disorder." . 1991 - The U.S. Department of Education rules that ADHD is an eligible condition for receipt of special educational services provided that it interferes with academic functioning. Most cases are dealt with under the "Other Health Impaired" category of special education while others qualify under the categories for learning and emotional disorders.
. 1994 - DSM-IV described three groupings within ADHD, which can be simplified as: mainly inattentive; mainly hyperactive-impulsive; and both in combination.
. 1998 - the NIH developed and issued a Consensus Statement attesting to the existence of ADHD. A link is provided in the External Links section below.
. 1999 - New delivery systems for medications are invented that eliminate the need for multiple doses across the day or taking medication at school.
These new systems include pellets of medication coated with various time release substances to permit medications to dissolve hourly across an 8-12 hour period (Medadate CD, Adderall XR, Focalin XR) and an osmotic pump that extrudes a liquid methylphenidate sludge across an 8-12 hour period after ingestion (Concerta).
. 1999 - The largest study of treatment for ADHD in history is published in the American Journal of Psychiatry. Known as the Multimodal Treatment Study of ADHD (MTA Study), it involved more than 570 ADHD children at 6 sites in the United States and Canada randomly ***igned to 4 treatment groups.
Results generally showed that medication alone was more effective than psychosocial treatments alone but that their combination was beneficial for some subsets of ADHD children beyond the improvement achieved only by medication. More than 40 studies have subsequently been published from this m***ive dataset.
. 2001 - The International Consensus Statement on ADHD is published (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review) and signed by more than 80 of the world's leading experts on ADHD to counteract periodic media misrepresentation that ADHD is not a real disorder and that medications are not justified as a treatment for the disorder. In 2005, another 100 European experts on ADHD added their signatures to this historic document certifying the validity of ADHD as a valid mental disorder.
. 2003 - The first new medication for ADHD in the past 25 years receives FDA approval for use in children, teens, and adults with ADHD. The drug is atomoxetine.
As for the people trying to say that ADD and ADHD don't exist, you can choose to believe them if you feel like it, but there is plenty of evidence that it does exist and no one is ever going to convince the parents of ADD/ADHD children that the disorder is nonexistent!
I think that the people who are claiming the disorder doesn't exist probably work for the drug companies and is trying to distract people from what they REALLY should be mad about--the fact that doctors are handing methamphetamines out like CANDY to CHILDREN!
Think about that for a minute. Methamphetamine is crank, isn't it? Crystal Meth is crystallized methamphetamine, isn't it? What would you think of someone that gave their kid crank every day for years? What do you suppose would happen to a kid who grew up taking crank every day? Kids learn how to interact with their world when they're growing up, how to live, basically.
How would a kid on who is taking crank every day for years ever learn how to function in the world without the drug? Aren't we creating lifelong addicts? Maybe that's why the number of meth lab busts keeps going up and up--adults who got the shit as kids then went off of it are still addicted and looking for their fixes.
A lot of parents don't even realize that this is the same stuff about which they were yelling "Speed kills!" in the sixties. They trust their doctor not to give them or their children a drug unless the benefits of the drug outweigh its risks. That's the key right there: do the benefits of giving amphetamines to kids with mild to moderate ADD outweigh the drawbacks of potential lifelong addiction, heart damage and possibly other organ damage?
Even if 100% of these kids actually have ADD, my question is what the hell are the doctors doing giving kids powerful, addictive stimulants for any but the most severe cases of ADD or ADHD?
Giving kids a drug that strongly addictive and harmful should only be done when the child has a case so severe he'd have no quality of life without the drug, and very few ADD/ADHD cases are THAT severe.
Mild cases could be treated by having special cl***es for the kids, cl***es designed to help them learn their schoolwork and to cope with their ADD/ADHD, and by providing psychological and nutritional counseling for both the kids and the parents. (There is a good deal of evidence that ADD/ADHD is related to chemical food additives.) There are known effective alternatives to giving kids drugs that damage their organs and turn them into lifelong addicts, and there are probably more alternatives not yet discovered , though I doubt the medical community is actively investigating this.
We should let them grow up without powerfully addictive drugs they don't have a strong need for, and let them decide when they're mature (and fully understand the risks) whether or not they want to take the shit.
Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Thu, 4 May 2006 17:59:54 -0500, "Adam Corolla" <snip> I'm not one for conspiracy theories. I'm pretty certain that ADD/ADHD exists as a legitimate medical condition but I do find myself wondering if it's genuinely as widespread as the statistics suggest. I do believe that doctors often find it less h***le to diagnose ADD/ADHD, rather than simply tell the parents that they have brought their little angel up to be an unruly, attention-seeking little shithead who expects to always get his own way - and risk an official complaint.
It seems that these days, drugs like ritalin are used as a thoughtless, 'magic bullet' cure for 'bad' children, completely sidesteping the root causes of 'the kids getting worse these days' (which they do seem to be) - i.e. successive generations of bad parenting and the breakdown of family values. All the processed junk food that the kids shovel down their throats these days (much more than when I was a lad) and the chemicals therein, plus the general lack of nutritional balance probably isn't doing them much good either.
Also, in the UK there is a definite culture of parents deliberately trying to get the sproggen diagnosed with the condition so as to be entitled to more state benefits - it's one of the most common scams after the 'too depressed to work' routine (which I'll get to another time). I've actually heard people bragging about doing so and comparing notes on the best way to pull the wool over the doctor's eyes. I'd imagine that they do it in the US too - lying, cheating, scamming ****heads are pretty much universal. It all bumps up the stats.
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"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
It's not too easy to get that in the US. You have to have m***ive amounts of documentation covering years of treatment, apply for the pittance SSI gives you, wait months and months for a response, get rejected (everyone gets rejected the first time) then, get a lawyer and fight the rejection.
Sadly, if you're too depressed to work, you're almost certainly too depressed to go through all the BS, so probably most of the people getting SSI for depression and other mental illnesses either have only mild cases or are faking.
I've *been* too depressed to work, and it's ****ing horrible. It was far worse than any of the shit jobs I've ever worked, because even the worst job lets you go home at the end of the day whereas depression can maintain its grip every waking minute and even make you have nightmares that cause you to fear sleep. Luckily antidepressant meds work wonderfully well for me, and I never needed to get SSI. And eventually I found a really good job too.
Yeah, people who rip off the system are shit-****ing candidates for a good squicking, as they make it nearly impossible for the people who really need help to get it.
NeedforSwede2 carl.rob...@bouncing-czechs.com
In article <wpudnXcN--mSKcLZnZ2dneKdnZydn...@giganews.com>, nos...@nospam03550265902.com says...
Never been too depressed to work, but I do suffer depression, have done since I was about 14 and I have been close. I agree with what you. At least with a shit job the whistle blows, or the boss falls down a shaft or whatever. But the blackness doesn't lift. As a kid I found that I didn't want drugs, and would just work my way through it. People thought I was just another miserable goth.
I've been fine for about 15 years. Then I quite smoking. And one week after finshing the patches I'd dropped to a low. Plus I had discovered anger, not a good combination. Plus I'm showing signs of IBS (which nicotine helps control) ad I still have crap job. At least I can still go home and whine about that.
Still wake up some morning with feelings of dread. And usually something shitty does happen, but that is just coincidence. But is 9 months since my last patch, a year since my last cigarette, and I've smoked 4 cigars in that time for enjoyment, rather than craving, I just wish I could be bothered to feel really elated about the stopping needing nicotine.
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Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Mon, 8 May 2006 16:11:43 -0500, "Adam Corolla" It's not *quite* as hard in the UK - it's a case of filling in a long, detailed form about your condition and how it affects your day-to-day living and getting your doctor to back you up when they write to him.
You have to wait a few months for a decision (living on the pittance that basic income support pays) and sometimes the social will insist on sending one of their own doctors to check out a claimant and make an ***essment if it's a borderline case (it's never happened to me since I've been ill though). If you've justified yourself sufficiently and your account tallies with what your doctors says, you'll get what you're entitled to and a backdated cheque for the benefits from the date of your original claim.
AFAIK, most people are not routinely turned down if they are genuinely too sick to work (though there is an appeals process for those that need it). It's a slow process but it seems pretty fair (I've never had any problems at least), though there has been some talk recently of them 'toughening up' the claims process because of the wankers that exploit the system and all the recent negative publicity.
I'm pretty much on the scrapheap at the age of 25. My doctor isn't sure if I'll ever be fit to work again. I have had, and still do have 'issues' (that I don't really want to go into here) but also a rare physical problem that was caused by certain prescription medications given to me to deal with said 'issues' - which to cut a long story short, has completely ****ed me up.
Agreed, 100%. There's also been a huge media furore about benefit fraud here over the past few years. The actions of a lying, cheating, bone-idle minority when combined with lazy, sensationalist reporting have prejudiced the believe-everything-they-read sheeple against *anyone* in receipt of benefits. I try not to mention the fact that I'm on DLA to people, which is difficult because one of the first questions that people naturally ask when meeting people is "so, what do you do?". I've had some really cruel, wankerish and sometimes completely hypocritical (someone who regularly does cash-in-hand work on the side is in *no position* to make 'I pay my taxes for you lot'-type remarks) comments and accusations from people that I would never have expected it from - you really find out who your friends are with this shit.
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Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Tue, 9 May 2006 09:42:19 +0100, NeedforSwede2 Heh, that sounds *very* familiar. I suffered with it for years (ever since I was a kid, really) and tried to keep my head down and get on with things as best I could. It's only in the last three years or so that I hit a brick wall and realized that things could not go on the way they were. I literally reached a stage where it felt as though the weight of the whole world was crushing me and there was no way out and nowhere left to turn.
There was one awful night in particular when I realized that there were only two roads realistically left open for me.
1. Be found by my landlord swinging from the end of a rope, bloated and covered in maggots after I hadn't paid the rent for a couple of weeks and the other tenants had complained about the smell.
2. Swallow what little pride I had left, forget all that 'be a man' and 'stiff upper lip' crap that gets drummed into your head from an early age and throw myself at the mercy of the only person who I felt might be able to understand.
Without trying to sound *too* corny, the day I broke down and cried in my doctor's office and he put his arm around me and told me that everything was going to be okay was the first day of the rest of my life. Year zero. Since then I learned for the first time to start taking care of myself in all the ways that *really* matter.
I find that the anger helps, personally - after everything I've been through, there is so much to be angry about (the majority of my problems were caused/made worse by factors I had no control over).
Righteous anger - and from that a desire to, somehow, in some small way make the world a better place so that some other poor kid doesn't have to suffer because of a cruel, uncaring, ****ed-up world and the bad people in it, can be a great healer.
Supposedly, there's a 1-in-8 chance of getting lung cancer from smoking. Which means that there is a 7-in-8 chance that you won't.
Smoker's logic dictates that these are pretty good odds. :) I say that if it makes you feel better, helps you cope and it's not going to **** you up as badly in the short term as booze or pills, do it. Quit when you really feel that you *need* to, for yourself (and only yourself). *That's* when you feel the elation (I know that's what it was like for me and drink) and the cold-water-in-the-face realization (followed by a big smile) that you will never, ever do it again.
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NeedforSwede2 carl.rob...@bouncing-czechs.com
I actually don't want a cigarrette. Generally it feels good.
When the doc put me on anti depressants for the temper (one month course), after 2 weeks I couldn't take them anymore. Made me feel dead and flat, unable to be emotional, instead of being over emotional like I was after quittings cigs. They went in the bin. And I went back and told I wanted to try without. She was amazed that I had quit smoking without "councelling" in the first place.
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Carl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
Squibn ...@webtv.net (Perkoff the Anal Sphincter Cleaner)
Quoted from wikipedia? My, but that is a real reliable source. Well researched and credible. And yes, I am being ironically sarcastic.
"Charles the baby crusher Paisley" ajame...@hotmail.com
Sure it's real... but how common is it?
it is far easier to tranquilize kids than deal with them..
I'm certain that I would be a (more) maladjusted ****-up if schools in my day treated kids like they do now.
Soma anyone?
'You're a hyperactve child You're disruptive, you're too wild We're going to calm you down Now this won't hurt a bit' Drag me to the floor Pullin' down my pants Ram a needle up my butt Put my brain into a trance 'No more hyperactive child Got too much of a mind Wouldn't you rather be happy?
Now this won't hurt a bit' Cameras in the halls No windows, just brick walls Pledge allegiance to a flag Now you will obey...
"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
What med were you on? The emotional castration to which you refer sounds like the antidepressants that were used before the SSRIs came out.
"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
Sarcasm is for ignorant losers who have no information sources of their own with which to rebut an argument, but want to appear intelligent anyway.
Thanks for playing, have a nice day, don't let the door whap your *** when you piss off.
"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
It's estimated that four to five percent of kids have it, but that's counting the mild to moderate cases as well as the most severe ones (which are the only ones which warrant even the consideration of stimulant drug treatment, IMO) Correct. Rather than spending quality time with their kids, teaching, training and <gasp!> disciplining them when necessary, just giving them a pill is so much easier. I guess the TV isn't enough of a babysitter anymore.
Me too.
Basically, yeah.
In cases where people have illnesses so severe they could have no quality of life without drugs, then give them the drugs; but when people have mild to moderate problems which may be helped through patient education, training, noninvasive and other nondrug therapies, for ****'s sake don't give them a bottle of powerfully addictive, mood altering drugs which are neither safe nor necessary.
Sweet!! I'd completely forgotten about that song!
Squibn ...@webtv.net (AmeriKKKa Needs Noodles)
"Sarcasm is for ignorant losers who have no information sources of their own with which to rebut an argument, but want to appear intelligent anyway. Thanks for playing, have a nice day, don't let the door whap your *** when you piss off." Sarcasm is the time honored method used by realists to let people who think their opinions really matter know their rants are petty aND IRRELEVANT. Just like yours, Toyota Corolla.
NeedforSwede2 carl.rob...@bouncing-czechs.com
It was Fluoxetine (trade name Prozac).
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"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
That's the one I take. When I take it, I feel normal. When I don't, I get so depressed it hurts to move or think, and I can't eat and start to lose weight rapidly. I'm glad it works for me, unfortunately it doesn't work for many people.
"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
Nope. Sarcasm is basically the same as name-calling, the only thing it says is about the maturity level of the one distributing it.
It is a traditional method of 'defense by emotional attack' for people who base their opinions on emotions rather than reason and feel threatened when anyone presents them with facts which show that their beliefs are not correct.
Presenting facts is never irrelevant. Presenting beliefs as though they were facts is always irrelevant. That's what you're doing.
In addition, I didn't rant. You were the one who ranted.
Your mind is very clouded and you are allowing your emotions to completely obscure your vision. The person who disagrees with clear vision simply states why they disagree. You, on the other hand, resort to sarcasm, which is just an immature emotional attack and says nothing about anything other than your lack of maturity.
Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Fri, 12 May 2006 11:59:46 -0500, "Adam Corolla" I was on that for about six months - I felt okay on it (better than I was before, at least) but it pretty much eliminated my sex drive. I'm on Escitalopram now (after trying a few others), which seems to be working fine for me most of the time...
I think that the talking helped me just as much as the pills, though.
If you learn to better understand yourself and what makes you tick, you are in a better position to change youself for the better and help yourself when things go wrong. Sometimes it's only a personal perpective on the world, based on a simple logical fallacy that causes you much pain, anguish and suffering - something that's so deeply ingrained that you've been unconsciously accepting/doing it for years, until someone else sits you down, drags it out and points it out for you.
e.g. "If X happens to me, then I *must* do Y." Then you can ask yourself the questions "If X happens to me, *why* must I do Y?" (answer - because that's what I've always done) and "If X happens and I *don't* do Y - but instead do Z, then will I feel better for it?", etc...
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Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Fri, 12 May 2006 08:44:46 +0100, NeedforSwede2 Prozac can stop you from cumming. You can still get a boner but you can't ejaculate, no matter how hard you flog the dolphin. It's an 'interesting' side effect - one that the ladies should love you for...
;)
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"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
Yeah, it does have a lot of weird side effects on a lot of people. I haven't experienced that one, though. I think after a while that particular side effect would drive me nuts (no pun intended.)
Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Mon, 15 May 2006 18:00:57 -0500, "Adam Corolla" TBH, at the time I didn't really care - it stopped my sex drive and made me completely unconcerned that I had no sex drive. That's Prozac for ya...
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"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
You're right, but that only helps for situational depression, i.e., depression caused by a depressing situation. Taking medication for situational depression is sort of pointless unless it's *really* debilitating depression. Talking, working to change the depressing situation, maybe a good therapist, exercise, good nutrition etc., those things treat the cause, rather than treating the symptom (which is what the drug does.) My depression doesn't have a situational cause. Oh, I get NORMAL depression, like anyone, if something depressing happens like someone I love dies or I lose a great job, or maybe I'm just dwelling on my problems too much, etc. I can deal with normal situational depression. But even when everything in my life is going fine and I feel great, I can get attacks of depression so severe it makes the whole world look different, like a bad acid trip I guess, only without visual hallucinations just everything twisted up emotionally. When I'm in that state, I could just find out I won the world's biggest lottery ever AND found out I'm immortal, and it would not lift me out of it. Sometimes I can do nothing but sit or lie there and barely breathe because it hurts to move at all. As far as anyone has been able to tell, my depression is caused by some sort of chemical imbalance in my brain, which Prozac seems to correct.
Prozac eliminates my depression attacks, doesn't change my other emotions, doesn't really have any side effects I can tell other than dry mouth/eyes, and doesn't affect my sex drive at all. It's a goddamned MIRACLE drug...
for me. Unfortunately it doesn't work for a lot of people or maybe it works but shuts down their emotions and/or sex drive or has other unacceptable side effects. And too many doctors prescribe it for situational depression when it isn't really needed, as a substitute for actually helping the patient understand and deal with the cause. That's horrible medical care, but capitalism does have its drawbacks, one of which is that modern medicine tends to want to sell you a pill every day to keep you alive or to hide the symptoms of the problem than cure the problem so you can live a healthy and potentially happy life without continuing to pay them regularly.
"Adam Corolla" nos...@nospam03550265902.com
Well, no. That's Prozac for you. That's not Prozac for me. I've been taking it for about 17 years. My sex drive was about average before I started taking it and has been about average since I have been taking it.
Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Tue, 16 May 2006 12:31:40 -0500, "Adam Corolla" Fair 'nuff. Different things work for different people.
I took another drug that is supposedly in common use and it nearly killed me...
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Dav davthep...@hotmale.com
On Mon, 15 May 2006 18:19:38 -0500, "Adam Corolla" Mine was *really* debilitating - and the drugs have helped me. I think I have a bit of both, tbh.. :) Basically lots of long-standing shit from when I was younger. I didn't have a very good childhood and a lot of bad shit happened to me as I was growing up that I'd just bottled up and never learned to deal with properly. In the end, it all caught up with me.
I hear you. Sometimes I can't do anything except lie there in bed and feel like I want to 'do something bad' to stop me from feeling the way I do. My body won't do what I want it to do and I can't think straight at all (it feels like my thoughts are shards of broken gl*** and there's a dull, heavy something just behind my eyes that stops me from pulling it all together). Some depressed people can't sleep - I, on the other hand, tend to hibernate when I go through bad patches. It's odd, considering that I'm an insomniac on the 'good days'...
It's something to do with seratonin levels, isn't it?
Talk *and* pills is the way to go, according to my doc. He doesn't believe in doling them out like smarties and sending people away with the whole 'take these and it'll fix you right up' thing. He ensured that I get regular psychotherapy/counselling sessions and still likes me to make appointments every month, just for a chat about how things are going for me. He's tried to wean me off the tablets in the past when I started to feel better, though everything started falling apart again as soon as I tried.
Still, if the price of feeling human 85% of the time is that I have to take one little white pill once a day and another even smaller white pill three times a day for the forseeable future, then I don't really mind that...
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"BOBOBOnoBO?®" CLASS...@BRICK.NET
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