Does Mental Illness Exist?
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"turtoni" turt...@fastmail.net
"The English-speaking world has not always used medical language to describe the behavior we now label as symptomatic of mental illness or mental disorder. Descriptions were sometimes framed in quite different terms, such as possession. What we now call mental illness was not always treated as a medical problem. Non-English-speaking nations in the West have had changes in their linguistic usage and their treatment of the mentally ill roughly parallel to Anglophone countries.
Anthropological work in non-Western cultures suggests that there are many cases of behavior that psychiatry would cl***ify as symptomatic of mental disorder, which are not seen within their own cultures as signs of mental illness. Indeed, other cultures may not even have a concept of mental illness that corresponds even approximately to the Western concept.
The mainstream view in the West is that the changes in our description and treatment of mental illness are a result of our increasing knowledge and greater conceptual sophistication. On this view, we have conquered our former ignorance and now know that mental illness exists, even though there is a great deal of further research to be done on the causes and treatment of mental illness. However, there are some thinkers who have challenged this mainstream view. Some have argued for a relativist view, that the reality of mental illness is not an absolute transcultural fact. The relativist view would have to be that statements about the existence of mental illness can be true in some cultures and false in other cultures.
A more extreme view is that there is no such thing as mental illness in any culture, and that there could not be, because the very notion of mental illness is based on a fundamental mistake or set of mistakes.
This sort of view is most closely ***ociated with the psychiatrist Thomas Szasz. It is this view that we will focus on here.
There are many arguments in the voluminous work of Szasz, and it is not easy to always keep them separated. One critic of Szasz separates out at least six main arguments against the existence of mental illness within his work. (Reznek, 1991, Chapter 5).
Sometimes he has compared psychiatry to alchemy or astrology (1974, pp.
1-2), and says they are all pseudo-sciences. On this criticism, it seems that the reason that mental illness does not exist is the same sort of reason that phlogiston or astral influences do not exist: it is an empirical mistake caused by flawed methodology. The continued belief in mental illness by psychiatrists is the result of dogmatism and a pseudoscientific approach using ad hoc defenses of their main claims.
He also accuses psychiatrists of secrecy and obfuscation.
However, it seems that his most fundamental criticism is not of the scientific methodology of psychiatry, but of its concepts. His claim is that the concept of mental illness is based on a confusion.
[The belief in mental illness] rests on a serious, albeit simple, error: it rests on mistaking or confusing what is real with what is imitation; literal meaning with metaphorical meaning; medicine with morals. (Ibid, p. x.) Ssasz says that there cannot be mental illness, literally speaking, because it is no more than a metaphor. He argues that by definition, "disease means bodily disease." (Ibid, p. 74), and further, the mind is not literally part of the body.
Szasz's critique of the foundations of psychiatry has attracted a great deal of attention from supporters and detractors. It has generated debate over the following issues: Is it true that disease, by definition, must refer to bodily disease?
Is it true that the mind is not literally part of the body? Couldn't the mind be identified with the brain or the neural system?
Is it true that that medicine is, intrinsically, not about the moral evaluation of behavior, even if it might be used instrumentally as part of a moral evaluation?
Is it true that psychiatry is founded on pseudoscience?
Szasz's position has not gained any widespread credence. Given the progress of neuroscience and our increasing ability to affect emotions, thought, and behavior through medication, psychiatry has if anything gained in scientific credibility in the thirty years since Szasz first proposed his critique.
Few of Szasz's supporters have been willing to take as extreme position as him. Critics of psychiatry have been more focused on particular purported mental illnesses, such as alcoholism, psychopathy, multiple personality disorder, rather than the whole category of mental illness.
There is still vigorous debate over the reality of such mental disorders. This debate has turned more on empirical issues than the more philosophical claims of Szasz." http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-illness/#1
Sir Frederick mmcne...@fuzzysys.com
In the right context it does.
Similarly, in the right context, one may address whether or not one of the putative angels dancing on a pin head has a cold.
As long as our medieval culture ignores brain structures and functions for folk lore theories (such as "mental"), the right contexts will present themselves.
"chazwin" chazwy...@yahoo.com
We all do this. Life is imitation, all concepts are metaphorical and constructed socially.
But the same criticism can be leveled at the identification of all disease. Physical states that depart from the norm and are undesirable.
These undesirable states are called disease and are "treated", until they go away. With mental illness the attempt also removes that which the patient is, it is a partial removal of the self.
There is no evidence that the mind exists outside the body. All disease is physical and mental, so that there is no clear distinction between the two. Having flu make you feel bad, being depressed slows down your body and many patients feel weak and achey.
Al diseases are ***essed morally and socially.
Sadly so. It seems there is a "chemical cure" for everything.
Psychiatric medicine rarely has time to deal with underlying social and personal problems. The treatment curve is from dr to patient, from chemical to brain, when true change in a person's well being should be a circular pathway: a hermeneutic circle of growth and understanding between the patient and his/her lifepath.
donstockba ...@hotmail.com
"Fantastic insight into the true nature of Reality is isomorphic to insanity."
Sir Frederick mmcne...@fuzzysys.com
Whom are you quoting here?
"AE" hid...@nospam.com
As well as a condition of body can cause you to suffer and can be a disability, it is possible that a mental condition causes pain and hinders you.
"BuddhaThu" softspokenbud...@yahoo.com
Dear Turtoni My approach to mental illness is in part 'subjective' and 'objective.' It operates on the simple rule of whether the person is feeling 'burdened' from it.
There are various mental conditions such as ADHD, autism, dyslexia, mental retardation and such which are not necessarily 'disabilities' but 'differences.' The rule of thumb is to ask whether you are overly burdened by your condition, and then see a doctor.
Some people are better equipped to deal, while others are not.
However, my position is that at times certain types of mental dysfunctions will disallow a person to even communicate this, i.e.
dementia, schizophrenia, various forms of psychosis.
If this is the case, the rule of thumb would be more toward evaluating whether it is a variation to the community or a deviance. The evaluation will have to take place on part with physicians.
Variation means it is not harmful to the community, but the community will need to set up public services to help them.
Deviance means that it is harmful and the community would need to do something more than just set up treatment centers. It needs to protect itself from potential harm.
These are 'objective evaluations.' However, words like variation, deviance, differences, and disabilities are spectrum issues. They are subjective opinions based on gradations and degrees.
Political/social and medical is not my forte, but it is just my humble opinion.
Sincerely, B.T.
"BuddhaThu" softspokenbud...@yahoo.com
Dear Turtoni My approach to mental illness is in part 'subjective' and 'objective.' It operates on the simple rule of whether the person is feeling 'burdened' from it.
There are various mental conditions such as ADHD, autism, dyslexia, mental retardation and such which are not necessarily 'disabilities' but 'differences.' The rule of thumb is to ask whether you are overly burdened by your condition, and then see a doctor.
Some people are better equipped to deal, while others are not.
However, my position is that at times certain types of mental dysfunctions will disallow a person to even communicate this, i.e.
dementia, schizophrenia, various forms of psychosis.
If this is the case, the rule of thumb would be more toward evaluating whether it is a variation to the community or a deviance. The evaluation will have to take place on part with physicians.
Variation means it is not harmful to the community, but the community will need to set up public services to help them.
Deviance means that it is harmful and the community would need to do something more than just set up treatment centers. It needs to protect itself from potential harm.
These are 'objective evaluations.' However, words like variation, deviance, differences, and disabilities are spectrum issues. They are subjective opinions based on gradations and degrees.
Political/social and medical grammar is not my forte, but it is just my humble opinion.
Sincerely, B.T.
"Zap" z...@here.com
Being a sufferer of schizophrenia and extreme debilitating shyness where I cannot even eat in front of anyone I can ***ure you that mental illness exists.
It is unfortunate that it is treated by way of depot injections when maybe light treatment or talking or music or kindness or touch would enable the sufferer to come to terms with it and deal with it at source without the requirement for drugs.
But once you are pushed into and analysed in a brain scan machine and given a depot injection and then left on the floor without so much as a "are you ok?" when you feel like your entire reality and entire world has drained out of your existence - then ask me again if you believe insanity exists.
The question should be more like do you know how to DEAL with or TREAT mental illness - not whether it exists.
And I can ***ure you - the answer is no.
There just is no such thing as comp***ion for the mentally ill. We are treated like animals.
In some societies the mentally ill are revered and become Shamans or healers. We are in touch with things that normal people are not.
In the old days we were considered "fey" and treated as special people who could understand the wind and talk to angels.
Once you have had the injections or drugs and time has p***ed by - it is almost impossible to go back to the mind and emotions of puberty and try to ask for some understanding instead.
...
"gibbs" gib...@fakedemailaddress.edu
Try this: http://www.etfrc.com/ChemicalImbalances.htm
"gibbs" gib...@fakedemailaddress.edu
Read this: http://www.etfrc.com/ChemicalImbalances.htm
"gibbs" gib...@fakedemailaddress.edu
Really? Read this and liberate yourself: http://www.etfrc.com/ChemicalImbalances.htm
"turtoni" turt...@fastmail.net
I think you need to reread the article and try to understand this POV.
I think you'll find it's on your side. Try not to contradict yourself...
"turtoni" turt...@fastmail.net
(snips - more good points) The answer to this problem is to cut out the "middle men".
This applies to all walks of life.
This is my poetry for the night.
heh heh.
"tooly" rd...@bellsouth.net
Hey again Zap. We should talk.
For years I have been trying to figure out my family on my mother's side.
Each and every member of that family was burdened with what can only be described as 'extreme shyness'. I have an aunt for example, who continunally backs away as you talk to her and I've seen her actually back right out of a room supposedly having a converstation. When young, I remember all my aunts and uncles [they were teens then] actually 'run' to the back of the house whenever someone knocked on the front door. These are superficial behaviors of maladies that go far deeper and can only be recognized and understood over years as something deeper than simple 'shyness' [everyone probably has some streak of that]...and I have become convinced something genetic going on. In my family, it is a horrible malady and no one has turned out well [happy; most of us are very miserable in fact], though those who have entered artistic fields of endeavor have been able to find some small success in life. I had one cousin who played lead guitar for a nationally acclaimed band back in the 80's for example. Most of us however, are more like one of my uncles who turned out to be a horribly addicted alcoholic all his life. Me? I seek night shifts and work far below my capacity because I simply cannot handle the stress of political roughhousing in the workplace...and thusly am miserable.
It is something very observable to varying degrees in EVERY single member of that family...including myself as metioned.
The abuses I've felt all my life are hard to describe to someone else. A person's spiritual hide [if I might call it that] is important...and I've known people who are hardly 'touched' at all for the exact things that literally destroy someone like myself. I tried for years to justify this as some sort of virtue in the family, for there was nothing most of the members wouldn't do for others. Generosity, hospitality, kindness...it is said WE as a group will gladly give the shirts off our back to total strangers. But the justification fails in time when one observes the pure misery we exist under. We soon feel stilted because no one ever gives the shirt back, ha.
The world is a hard place and hard bark is necessary...a 'fit' for the environment. Waiting for your turn in line is a luxury afforded only the most affluent richer folk who do not starve of human warmth. For most of the world, to survive well, one must be willing to fight...to sell ice cubes to eskimoes, and empathy is a hinderence [ask any WWII GI Joe...a Kraut had to be a Kraut...or else, it was your butt ending up being wiped off the ground]. The family I was born into as a rule...does not fit...and that cannot be considered 'virtuous' for sake of the weakness behind our acts.
Anyway, the idea of 'shyness' has been a major major preponderance in life for me...trying to understand what went wrong; why all this suffering? I'm not sure I have any answers, but I do recognize it is deeper than something learned. There is a genetic disposition to it. For some odd reason, I feel kinship to the dutch painter Vincent van Gogh..as I have read his story anyway. He cared deeply, was sensitive...but deeply disturbed for the suffering he experienced. I think he loved deeply...and could never understand why such ...
"Bret Cahill" BretCah...@aol.com
Ancient Greek philosophers complained about physicians who acted as though the mind and body are independent or 100% separate.
Today a few smarter doctors agree.
The obesity problem in the U. S. is a political one. People who eat when they aren't hungry have clearly lost their freedom.
I predicted from basic political science that the loss of freedom would work its way up the income ladder.
This was recently confirmed by a study showing the increase of obesity working its way up the income ladder. Now obesity is a problem in upper middle cl*** Americans.
Bret Cahill "Insanity is rare in individuals but it is the rule in ages, nations and peoples." "There is more wisdom in what you call your body than what you think of as your mind."
-- Nietzsche
"Roger Johansson" roger4...@gmail.com
You are so right about that. The culture we live in is not natural, and the doctors are not trying to help people become sane, they try to help people become compatible with the old cultural pattern, where you basically need to be driven by will power, determination, strong convictions, and have a mind trained to be hard and tough.
For the individual who has problems and wants to, or need to, become more compatible with this culture there are drugs which help. Some are legal and accepted like coffee and quinine (tonic water), caffeine pills, benzodiazipines, some are illegal or can be prescribed by a doctor, like ritalin, amphetamine, cocaine.
A more relevant title to this thread would be "Does mental sanity exist?" We see that most of the participants in these philosophical newsgroups are very strange, often preferring to express themselves in double talk than clear language, and many are believers in supernatural forces, religions, etc..
They are the "normal" people.
I have lost many friends over the years, because they did not fit into the secret norm in society, and when they seeked help from people in general or doctors they were mistreated and bullied. The depot injections you talk about is what I and many of my former friends call "punishment medication".
The intention with giving people such medicines is to harden their minds, to make them more compatible with the culture we live in, but it doesn't work well on people who are already mistreated and neurotic.
Instead the doctors should give medicines that are making people more calm, like benzodiazipines, combined with centrally stimulating drugs like quinine.
But it is seen as immoral to choose such a way to become compatible with a speeded culture, the moral way is to find a strong girl who can make you strong and happy.
The doctors find themselves in a difficult situation, if they help somebody get well mentally they destroy his chances of getting married and becoming an angel, so to speak, with supernatural powers as many other men. So many doctors help breaking down the minds of people and recommend their patients to fall in love.
It is never too late. It can take years to regain the natural state of mind after having been severely bullied or medicated, but it is possible. You need a good place to rest and relax in, that's why a lot of people live isolated in the country.
You also need to let go, let your mind think whatever it needs to think to let out steam, and wait for it to find its way back to a natural state of mind.
After I have been socializing with people my mind keeps talking to itself for hours or days until it stops talking and I am back in a relaxed state of mind.
But even if you are able to do this that will not make you compatible with the society.
To be able to live in the society you need to accept that your mind is getting used to being insane, and find a girl and become happy in an ego-based and speeded way.
Either way you choose it is not easy to live in a culture which is insane, and wants to stay insane, because a certain kind of insanity gives social power and lets you stay on top of the world.
Check out my blog if you like, there are lots of articles about these issues there: http://tinyurl.com/qu2n9 Search my blog on googlegroups for keywords like culture, psychology, doctors, bully gang, etc..
If you already have a mind that has become fixated you only need turn the negative fixation into a positive fixation to become compatible with the society, and that's what girls are trained to do.
That is an easier and more socially accepted way to become what they have defined as normal, than to first try to get back to a natural state of mind and build up strength on such a basis. I know because I have tried that for over 30 years, living in a tent in the forest for years, living in a mountain hut for 15 years alone to regain my sanity, and still getting into big trouble when trying to socialize with "normal" people.
Girls are very interested in neurotic boys whe really need a girl, but you need to be determined enough to talk to them. Those two qualities are very difficult to combine.
It is a complicated social game they play, they are trying to both make you very happy and totally crazy so you don't give a damn about anything, but as long as you are fairly healthy and can walk you still have the chance to learn that social game and become insane in a very positive way. That is the best they have to offer in this culture.
Be prepared for girls who are very nice and make you happy and then turn around and try to upset you. Smile at her and go out and find another girl, don't get attached to a certain girl, that is not seen as a manly behavior and they will punish you for it.
It is up to the girl to get attached if she likes you, but you should not get attached, she will use that to upset you, to teach you to be manly in an egoistic way.
Such are the ideals and gender roles in this culture and a lot of people, and especially the girls, play a social game based on those ideals.
If I was young and healthy and knew all I know today my plan would be to become strong my filling my mind with enough anger and determination to find a nice girl, then talk her into moving out of the society with me and start relaxing and get nearer to a natural state of mind.
--
Roger J.
"Zap" z...@here.com
I agree. I really do think that to a greater or lesser degree, everyone is a little insane.
Apologies - I am not looking for a girl - I am female. Zap is a misleading name - I went through a stage of wanting to "Zap" everyone with a gun -
hence the name.
Some people are just different. Doesn't necessarily make them insane.
Togetherness and sharing is nice. Companionship is one of the blessings in life.
My partner died not so long ago and I feel a lot worse mentally than I did while he was alive. Another person can help keep you grounded and offer different opinions and insights.
When you say you lived in a mountain hut for 15 years alone to regain your sanity - were you officially diagnosed or was it just the life was driving you insane?
"Zap" z...@here.com
Thank you for this.
I feel like you - emotionally vulnerable and yet I in no way feel "advantaged". I am sure I am right in that being sensitive is better than being the brutish bully, but sometimes I wish I had a bit more fight and could be lean and mean. I am lucky being female though, I can spout some sentimental stuff and do not get had up for being effeminate or gay as I would if I was a guy. I agree that empathy is a good direction. I think what most of us deem the higher qualities must win because surely if you have any intelligence then you have a good idea what the higher qualities are and intelligence must take the lead in the development of the future.
There is no way the bully or ignoramus could ever take control and dictate to people of intelligence on a long term basis. In some way the majority of people who are peaceful and kind will always have the leverage in the way of moral right and truth. And even the really stupid understand the truth when it is spelt out providing you use the right words and it is funny how in cases of injustice you very often can find the right words.
"Roger Johansson" roger4...@gmail.com
Judging exactly how much "a little" is is difficult for us who live in this culture, maybe it is more than we can see.
Most girls go through such a stage in their lives, often during the teenage years.
I said to a female friend that I like her because she is so nice to people.
She said: I have not always been like this, between 15 and 20 I was very angry all the time.
Girls are forced to create a strong ego earlier in life than boys, and after that this ego is just reinforced and they become more stable as the years go by.
Boys are often left alone to be as they like during the teenage years, and go trough a big change later in life.
But we also see a slow change of the gender roles, as women are becoming more like men. That is an unfortunate development, we should have gone in the other direction, both men and women should become more like children, and these social processes which make us into grownups should be abolished.
These processes are a cultural heritage from the initiation rites of the stone age, which transformed boys into men. That was important in the stone age, when the men in a tribe should be able to scare a flock of wild dogs or the warriors from another tribe, by having a very strong body language, and the man was supposed to be a dictator in his home, having full control over his woman and children.
In a modern society where we live close to each other in big towns and cities it leads to a lot of stress, and we could use our brains in much better ways than to harbor a lot of hate and anger to gain respect from others.
I was a little different from the beginning. My parents were really relaxed and natural and we lived isolated in the country, so I was allowed to grow up in peace and was not trained or pushed in any way.
When I asked my mother to help me understand the letters and learn to read she helped me, so I could already read before I started going to school.
When I started in the first cl*** at 5 years of age I was shocked when I met the other boys, they were so superficial and brutal in their personalities.
They were like young goats who have trained butting heads a lot, they had thick skull bones but small brains.
I was allowed to sit in the school library and read whatever books I liked while the others learned to spell short words.
I third cl*** I was mistreated physically by other boys and I walked up the teacher in a lesson and announced that I was leaving school.
I remember what happened when my father came home from work that night.
My mother told him at dinner that I had decided to leave school.
My father was a little surprised but took it very nicely.
He smiled and said: Let's eat first, we can talk about that later.
I don't remember it but they probably explained that there were laws that made it impossible so I had to go back to school.
My father never raised his voice and never even looked angry during my childhood.
I read a lot of books between age 5-15. I read On the road by Kerouac and realized that I could hitchhike and I went to Paris when I was 15.
I continued travelling like that for big parts of the following ten years.
I always wanted to travel alone during the first five years, because I was developing my personality, my identity as a grownup.
I also lived with girls and with political friends, we organised demonstrations against the Vietnam war and 1st of May demonstrations, we were socialists and hippies, kind of. This was around 1968 and there were hundreds of different socialist and communist groups in Europe. So my life was fairly normal until I was 24.
I had friends and a social life and girl friends.
I lived fairly normally in a quite normal world until I was 24. Then my world changed like Franz Kafka describes in the book The Process.
Suddenly people started being very mean and threatening to me, and it looked like all people were involved in a big conspiracy to drive me crazy. This was, of course, a shocking and scary experience, I never knew that people in general could be so mean and cruel.
This became worse and worse so I had to flee out into the forest and live in a tent both summer and winter. And the winters here in the north of Sweden are very long and very cold.
After that it has been like hell and I have been close to dying from stress several times.
They probably tried to make me angry and more manly but I did not treat my mind in so incompetent ways, I didn't get angry, I tried to find my way back to a peaceful mind again. Every time they scared me up or threatened me or disturbed me. So they kept on doing such things, using worse and worse methods, desperately trying to make me angry, and I became a better and better expert on finding my way back to peace of mind.
But I also developed a neurosis, so I often puke before going into the apartment I have been very mistreated in. My body does not want to go into that place again.
I do not have physical or economical possibilities to move, I can hardly walk because my knees are in bad shape.
Even the doctors at the local hospital are participating in the abuse so I do not get the treatment I should have. They say: Get a girlfriend, you need love to get well.
They think pain and suffering makes people stronger.
This is still going on, and I am 56 now, but now I can at least understand why they are acting like this.
--
Roger J.
"Zap" z...@here.com
I agree. If we could all become more like children.........
I have seen some of these initiation rites of boy to manhood.
I glad I am female.
I did have an initiation rite once when I started a new school - I was the only new girl in the cl*** and I am sure they invented it. They turned a chair upside down and somehow managed to get my legs and arms through the bars of the chair and it was only if I could get out of the chair by myself that I would be "accepted". Lucky I managed to get out of that chair!
I had this problem too. For some reason my parents decided to change my school and when I started the new school I was already reading books but they were only on "the cat sat on the mat". I was moved up the school and spent my childhood with older boys and girls which I suppose was rather odd as they were all so much bigger than me. I don't think my father knew I could read. Looking back I wonder if he even knew I existed (cue box of tissues) :( Yes. It is quite surprising when you find that out isn't it?
Was any of this paranoia do you think?
Why should they pick on you in this way?
You say you can understand why they are acting like this? Why? To make you stronger?
To make you resilient and hard?
Why? So that you can then in turn be cruel and unkind to someone else which it does not sound to me you are capable of nor would like to do.
There are ways to make people stronger - kindness and comp***ion and understanding are more effective than torment.
And now a really down to earth statement. Have you ever tried crepe bandages? It is remarkable the healing properties of a crepe bandage. I do not mean a support bandage, I mean a good old crepe bandage that you wind round and round your knees and then fasten with a safety pin. Many is the time I have suffered an injury and been amazed at the power of crepe bandages. You bandage your knees tight, and then you take the bandage off when it becomes uncomfortable - then you bandage them up again and so on until the bandage (hopefully) heals the pain and injury.
"Roger Johansson" roger4...@gmail.com
To get me married in the cl***ical sense, to make me very happy.
And they were very close to succeeding.
When I was in a really bad shape, a total nervous wreck, 5 years ago, after having been intensely terrorized by my neighbor in the apartment above me, they let me meet the girl I had longed for for 5-6 years.
She came up to me in the supermarket.
I got some kind of concussion and didn't understand anything, my mind froze up completely, from the shock of meeting somebody who loved me after having been tortured by others for many years.
Unfortunately I did not even recognize her, because my mind had stopped working.
She stood in front of me at the supermarket for a few seconds, saw that I did not recognize her and she got angry and walked away.
I was in shock for a week, and it was a very happy shock, a lovely concussion.
My brain stood still for days before I realized who I had met, and I was so happy for a few days that we finally could be together, and it took a few days more before I realized I had lost her too and went into the neurotic state of mind again, while the neighbor in the apartment above me continued to terrorize me with strong sounds, banging at the floor above me. I fled to the little house in the forest in the middle of winter, and my neighbor above moved away the same week, after he realized that something had gone terribly wrong, and it took me two years in the forest to let my mind cool down after that experience.
So I have been in a blessed state of mind for a week once, which could have continued for years if I only had been strongwilled enough to keep my mind working enough to recognize her, or if she had been programmed a little better, they could have told her that I might go into a shock and not even recognize her at first.
But such things happen when fanatic fools manipulate people and rule the social world, they happen to get people killed or torture others for their whole lives, some become serial killers, terrorists, socially isolated, filled with bitterness, chronically angry, all kinds of negative consequences happen, a lot of people never become extremely happy, a lot of violence occur, they produce wife beaters as well as angels, arsonists, criminals, etc..
But enough people become very happy and become administrators of the secret social system so the system survives generation after generation, for thousands of years. They create supernatural minds and help them become strong and hardened again, after the temporary fall into sin, into love.
So they see hardened souls as the normality. They train their children to become mentally strong and often arrogant and angry. Then they are manipulated to go into the shock of love, so they are reborn, they go into a completely different state of mind, and learn morals and get a conscience, then they slowly train their minds to get back to normality again, without losing the supernatural qualities, so they become very strong socially, after a life of training plus social doping in the form of love which changes their state of mind and personality very much.
That's why religious people say that without God and religion people would have no conscience and no moral, because they train their children to be strong egos, and be hardened souls, and they really need the kind of brain surgery the created love is to them.
But we would not need that kind of powerful love if we did not create a tough society to begin with. If children were allowed to grow up in a peaceful environment, without being pushed or influenced by the very intensive minds of their parents we could be mentally free all our lives.
When my father came home from work he always sat alone in another room for 30 to 60 minutes before he came out to us in the kitchen and was together with his wife and his children. He became heavy-minded at work in town, and he let his mind cool off before he was together with his family.
He was very easygoing and nice to be with, a natural and relaxed father.
The other fathers and husbands probably came home and leaned with all their social weight and manliness on their families, they needed a tough atmosphere at the workplace to restore their manly honor.
My father had no need for such bad traditions but he had to work with other men, so he had to get rid of that heavy mind before he was together with his family.
He never talked to us about why we lived isolated up on a mountain but I once overheard him talking to another man, a friend. He said: You know, they have so pumped up minds in society, that's why we live here in the forest.
The only time he was not positive and easygoing was when I asked him if I could join the boyscouts when I was around 10.
He hid his face behind his newspaper and said so silently I could barely hear him, "We aren't gonna have any uniforms in this family".
And that was the only time I heard him use a sad and serious tone in his voice. He did not like to use that tone so he said it as silently as possible.
Otherwise he always discussed with the rest of the family about what to do, but that time he decided on his own. He had seen enough of uniforms during WWII.
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Roger J.
"turtoni" turt...@fastmail.net
Read this: http://www.geometricvisions.com/Madness/schizoaffective-disorder/real...
"Roger Johansson" roger4...@gmail.com
Yes. Doctors do not investigate a patient and his whole life situation.
They do not come home to him and find out how he lives, what negative and stressing factors make him feel bad, and help him get rid of those factors, help him get a better place to live in, help him handle, or avoid, the cultural settings he lives in.
The best they can do for him is to give him some medicines so he doesn't have so bad nightmares. They can give him electric shock therapy to reset the brain, but what does that help if he has to go back to a life situation where he is being bullied by a religious sect who wants to make him into a superhuman, get married and become an angel, for example.
A human is 99% intelligence and 1% instinct.
A fish is 1% intelligence and 99% instinct.
But the cultural pattern we still live in has its root in the social dynamics of ape flocks, where adrenaline driven males got respect from the other males for the level of dangerousness, and was admired by the females for their level of aggresion.
We can still see a lot of that in today's world, after thousands of years of religious rule, which has conserved the social rules of the stone age.
We have abolished that culture officially, we have made laws against the use of violence, which they need to create strong egos and create the eternal love, the holy matrimony, the holy spirit, but a lot of people ignore the rules and laws of the modern society, and secretly uphold the traditions created 4000 years ago in the middle east.
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Roger J.
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