Murder, American Style, the book
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Earl Evleth evl...@wanadoo.fr
Murder, American Style is a book by Alex Alvarez and Ronet Bachman, printed in 2002. We bought it in England for 23 pounds, Amazon lists the book at $34 but not yet distributed.
The book is part the Wadsworth Contemporary Issues in Crime and Justice Series. The authors are academic.
The book has a number of statistics and facts, some of which I had not ran into before.
For instance, the % of use of firearms in homicides was an average of 60% in the 80-89 period and rose to 67% in the 90-98 period. The % use of hand guns had gone from 45% to 56% in this period while other gun use had declined. Stabbings went from 20% to 14%.
The hand gun switch from revolvers to powerful semi-automatics occurred in the last 20 years and the number of multiple gun shot wounds rose.
The percentage of those dying at the shooting scene skyrocketed from 5 to 34% due to multiple gun shot wounds with larger caliber weapons and bullets especially designed to do maximum damage.
Hitech arrived to the world of homicide.
Earl
"Tom S." sn...@cox.net
It's been a continum ever since rocks, sticks and clubs.
"Morton Davis" ogletho...@oglethorpe.com
I wonder what caliber he thinks Cain used?
-*MORT*-
Bert Hyman b...@visi.com
What kind of nonsense is this?
Is this your own interpretation of what you read, or is that a proper quote from the book?
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Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN b...@visi.com
David Voth davidv...@catholic.org
<snip> All it takes is one big fat lie like this to cast suspicion that the book being reviewed is propaganda intended to promote a semiauto ban or some other cr*** political issue.
Semiautomatic handguns are neither inherently more nor less powerful than are revolvers. Both fire one bullet each time the trigger is pulled. Both are available in a wide range of calibers, ranging from the mildest to some of the most powerful handgun cartridges made.
Semiautomatics have been available for about 100 years.
The type of weapon used to kill matters far less than the overall murder rate.
Jim Alder jimal...@ssnet.com
I have a revolver in .45 Colt that fires multiple rounds. They make a .44 magnum in the same size. What semi-auto is more 'powerful'?
Want to know why that might be? The previous administration's ban on high capacity handguns in favor of 10 round magazines caused a technological effort to create smaller handguns and bigger calibers. There's little point in making a full size 9mm with the same size gun can hold the same number of rounds in a larger caliber. Of course, then the gun grabbers started keening about 'hand cannons.' Hi tech? Why do you think they call the Colt .45 a "1911"?
--
Congress is so strange. A man gets up to speak and says nothing. Nobody listens - and then everybody disagrees. ~Boris Marshalov
"HelterSkelter" Hel...@Skelter.org
<snippeth> Methinks the authors need a few whacks with a clue-by-four ... by their design, revolvers are more capable of firing more "powerful" rounds while being dimensionally smaller than their semi-auto counterparts. You won't find many semi-autos that are capable of firing "powerful" rounds like .357/.41/.44 magnum and the like but revolvers which do are much more numerous.
The switch to the wonder-nines and the like may be laid at the doorstep of the marvelous War on Drugs ... as the feds upped the ante in firepower, so did the druggee competition and their minions glorified the whole mess in the urban gangsta rap musicology.
<snippeth> Larger caliber? 9mm is larger than <insert-here>?? The switch to semi-autos by both good and bad sides has resulted in spray and pray firing patters with bullets flying all over the place placing bystanders in more peril. Watch these reality "cops" shows on the tube, shots fly all over the place with maybe one in ten finding their intended target.
To employ a technical term, bullshit. Today's "high tech" semi-auto varies little with the designs of almost 100 years ago. The authors of this work are naive ...
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HelterSkelter
"Morton Davis" ogletho...@oglethorpe.com
Ultimately, all murders require the use of human hands. Whether done withg bare hands, or using a tool, murder can not happen without a human being in the picture. The mistake so many of these gun grabbers make is in believing that getting rid of the tool is the answer.
The most horrific act of violence in this new millenium was done without the use of guns. The most horrific acts of the end of the past century/millenium were done without the use of guns.
-*MORT*-
Earl Evleth evl...@wanadoo.fr
You can buy the book and confirm my observations, but I think I am being honest in conveying the sense of what the authors have said. One major thing happened from the 80s into the 90s, and the most important was that the preferred weapon in homicides switched to semi-automatic hand guns. The power of these weapons was in their being able to discharge a lot of ammunition in a short time from magazines holding more than a revolver does. The problem became acute the urban drug wars.
This is also covered in detail in a chapter on "Guns and Violence" in the book "Crime Drop in America", with a number of graphical representation of statistics for this time period.
For instance, figure 3.8 of the "Guns and Violence" article show that in Chicago, the number of semiautomatic hand gun killings were constant until 1988, the use below revolver use, then rose to dominate handgun homicide use. As for US manufacturing (figure 3.9), production of semi-automatics exceeded revolvers from 86 on.
On page 149, the authors of "Murder, American Style" give a reference to their statement that 80% of all handguns produced now are semiautomatics.
Their effect is obvious from other statistics since the number of multiply wounded individuals rose from 26% in 1988 to 43% in post 88-90 period. These is in their section on "Lethality" starting on page 148.
Essentially a revolution in firepower occurred from the late 80s on.
A large part of this showed up in the drug wars. But the types of drugs used in urban setting has changed in the later part of the 90s producing a big drop in homicides in New York, for example. But this is another issue and has nothing to do with the increased lethality of guns when used in situations which can produce a killing.
Earl
"Howard the Duck" rarudo...@NOSPAM.netzero.net
This is true - but spray and pray more often hurts the innocent - indeed one thing our cops have learned is that it is possible to empty all of the available magazines at a bad guy and then have him still angry enough to stick a knife in you.
Pat Hines fast...@attbi.com
The problem in America is a combination of culture and the criminalization of recreational drug sales. The vast majority of those murdered in America are themselves convicted violent felons, just as those doing the shooting are likewise convicted violent felons. Virtually 90% of those shootings are within one ethnic/racial group, with the remaining ***ignable to one other ethnic/racial group.
Pat Hines
Earl Evleth evl...@wanadoo.fr
In fact, the results disprove your contention. The incident of multiply wounded go up, the number dying at the scene of the shooting has risen, so there is a problem area.
1) How many bullets does an average revolver hold?
2) How many bullets does an average semi-automatic hold?
3) How many can be fired in what time period?
But they surp***ed revolvers in production and sales only recently.
In that sense the 100 years means nothing, it is the last 15 years which counts. Or more specifically the early 1990s.
That is exactly what is being said! Semiautomatics matter. They are a more efficient killing weapon and have therefore found preferential use. Specifically, they created the problem in the urban criminal killing in the early 1990s of increasing the homicide rate. It went hand in hand with the crack revolution.
Just gather some information and think about it.
Earl
Earl Evleth evl...@wanadoo.fr
None of your response was quantitative.
1) The facts are that number of those multiply wounded AND also the number dying at the scene of the shooting rose abruptly at the same time as semi-automatics took off (1988 on). What alternative explanation to you have. 2) Semi-autmatics now represent 80% of the handgun production. Why?
My answer is that the laws of economics and survival also apply in the criminal world. Semi-automatics, because of their fire power, became the preferred weapons.
Why else would they largely replace revolvers?
If you have an alternate explanation of why revolvers went out of style, please develop it.
Earl
!Jones lbj0...@hotmail.com
Interesting; however, since the text discusses murders, I ***ume that 100% of their sample died of their wounds, correct? So why is *where* they died a significant matter? Actually, given that I've been gut-shot and am going to die, I suppose I'd opt to go ahead and get it over with instead of being hauled all over town and wasting the e-room's time.
Jones
Bill Smith quand...@newsguy.com
Semi-autos are now used to kill more often than single shots and revolvers. So what.
Bill Smith
"Yardpilot" Yardpi...@attbi.com
Nonsense. The semi-autos generally are the 9mm and smaller. The revolvers are .38 and larger. The most common "crime gun" is the S&W .38 Special revolver.
"Yardpilot" Yardpi...@attbi.com
Let us know when you get the book.
"Yardpilot" Yardpi...@attbi.com
I doubt it. The intention to mislead seems obvious.
fta ...@yahooo.com (Gray Ghost)
Really you retard. Care to have an educated discussion about the relative power in foot-pounds of the different calibers? .357 Magnum against 9MM and .40 S&W? .44 Magnum against 9MM, .40 S&W or .45 ACP? How about .38 Special +P? Do you actually know the physics of it (obviously you don't) or does just saying the phrase "powerful semi-automatics" make you feel tragically hip?
Go away you ill informed dolt.
--
Frank A "natural right"? Where do those come from?
- Catl Nisarel, 10/17/02 who claims to be an American citizen, demonstrating exactly how much he understands about the United States, it's founding documents and principles and the people who risked everything to create it.
Pat Hines fast...@attbi.com
YOur statistics really don't matter, in America we seldom set public policy based on what the criminal element in our society does.
To be fair, there are those here that do attempt and would turn America into a country like England or France wherein criminals are allowed to regulate what the law abiding can do to defend themselves, but that's really never going to happen here.
Suggested reading: "A Nation of Cowards" by Jeff Snyder >http://www.nationofcowards.net/thebook.html This is an important book.
Pat Hines
"Morton Davis" ogletho...@oglethorpe.com
And the difference between revolvers and semi automatic have nothing to do with it.
-*MORT*-
Pat Hines fast...@attbi.com
In fact the numbers of weapons of any type have nothing to do with it.
Pat
"Yardpilot" Yardpi...@attbi.com
Simple. You said there were more semi-autos being manufactured, right?
That's the factor right there. It isn't "firepower" since the .38 special is still very common for criminal use as is the .22. Of course, the low dog gangbangers are also attuned to Hollywood's love affair with gangbangers and semi-autos used very badly.
"Yardpilot" Yardpi...@attbi.com
5,6,7,8,9,10 are not uncommon.
5,6,7,8,9,10 are not uncommon. In fact, they are limited to 10 by law.
A DA revolver can be fired faster than a semi-auto.
IOW, you don't like history. There are millions of semi-auto pistols that predate 1990. You anti-gun people wanted semi-autos limited to ten shots.
You got it. Now you're bitching because the law is being complied with.
Interesting.
Earl Evleth evl...@wanadoo.fr
I don't see the claim "a vast majority of those murdered are convicted felons" in the statistics I have seen.
Can you reference that?
I would agree that murderers have a high convicted felony rate, but I was surprised to read that the victims did also.
I looked through the US government statistical web sources and found nothing so far relating to victim criminal records.
Earl
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