Ignore Alternative Medicine At Your Peril

jdrew63 ...@aol.com (Jan)

http://tinyurl.com/z8t0 Ignore growing patient interest in alternative medicine at your peril, MDs warned Heather Kent CMAJ 1997;157:1427-
In brief Canada now has an institute to study alternative medicine and seek evidence concerning it. The founder, endocrinologist Wah Jun Tze, says most physicians appreciate that the institute will seek to find evidence for unproven therapies. It recently named a research director, and expects to have protocols for randomized, controlled studies in place by the new year. Herbal remedies are one likely candidate for study.
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Sandwiched between the jumble of structures on the busy 12th Avenue site of the Vancouver Hospital sits a Canadian medical anomaly -- the Tzu Chi Institute, the country's first centre for evaluating alternative and complementary therapies. The goal of the institute, which opened in October 1996, is to research and select the most useful alternative treatments and eventually integrate them into conventional treatment programs. The institute says alternative therapies are those lacking scientific validation that are excluded from medical school training programs and uninsured by health plans.
Its driving force is Dr. Wah Jun Tze, an internationally recognized pediatric endocrinologist and Order of Canada recipient. He was motivated by a "tremendous public interest" in alternative medicine, particularly in BC's rapidly growing Lower Mainland. A recent Angus Reid poll commissioned by Tze found that 89% of respondents said that they would use a facility such as the new institute.
Tze, who says "physicians cannot afford to ignore this level of interest," adds that most doctors he has talked to "welcome more information" on alternative therapies. He thinks most physicians "appreciate that the institute is looking very carefully into promising approaches," based on scientific studies.
Tze obtained an endowment of $6 million over 5 years from the Tzu Chi Foundation, an international Buddhist charitable organization. The Vancouver Hospital board responded enthusiastically to the idea, supplying services and vacant buildings, which were extensively renovated with funds advanced from the endowment.
Interest earned from the endowment covers operating costs, but does not include compensation for therapists who will be contracted to conduct research. To cover these costs various options, including charging patients, are currently being explored.
Additional funding of $300 000 annually is being contributed by the institute's partners, such as the University of British Columbia and the BC Women's Hospital and Health Centre, and the Vancouver Hospital Foundation will donate $100 000 annually. The institute is also seeking private donations through sponsorships for equipment and other items, and there are plans to establish a foundation.
Partly because funding and staffing issues are still being resolved, the institute is not yet admitting patients. However, Dr. Allan Best, a psychologist, was recently named research director and chief executive officer at the institute, and prospective patients are being identified. They must complete a community needs-***essment questionnaire, which attempts to gauge their motivation for seeking care and to identify trends. By last March almost 400 completed questionnaires were being analysed by institute staff, and by this fall between 500 and 600 people had been identified as potential patients and research subjects.
Gina Dingwall, the institute's director of education and patient services, says most people seeking help from it have chronic conditions and want someone to manage their treatment -- they are seeking symptomatic treatment rather than a cure. They also want ***urance of the safety of alternative therapies. In questionnaires completed so far, most respondents have concerns relating to fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome or various types of cancer.
The centre is not aiming to target BC's large Asian population. Dingwall says that many recent Asian immigrants tend to continue using traditional practitioners, as they did before coming to Canada. Although ethnicity is not identified in the survey, Dingwall estimates that 10% to 15% of respondents are of Asian descent.
Dingwall says completed questionnaires have pointed to "a huge disgruntlement" with the relationship many respondents have with their physicians. Some patients stated that their doctors offer only drugs and surgery and have no background in alternative therapies, while others say that their doctors will no longer see them if they undergo alternative care.
Dingwall ***erts that some doctors "suffer from an intolerance and disinterest" in chronic conditions. This, combined with a lack of "legitimized" medical school training in alternative care, results in a "mutual paranoia" between alternative practitioners and many conventional physicians. However, she hopes that a "complementary relationship" eventually develops with doctors. "We are here to facilitate change and see where their challenges are," she says.
Dingwall and her colleagues are developing an ***essment tool to evaluate symptoms cited by survey respondents. They will then ***ign patients to pilot research projects designed to evaluate the efficacy of alternative treatments.
Initially, about 6 projects are planned, and therapies selected may range from therapeutic touch to herbal remedies. Following the pilot studies, research will be carried out on a larger scale for therapies that offer the most promise. The treatments eventually offered by the institute will therefore be based upon positive research outcomes.
The pilot studies will be conducted by certified practitioners working under Allan Best's supervision. They will be selected from therapists, ranging from homeopaths to biofeedback therapists, who have approached the institute.
Among the practitioners, who meet regularly with the institute, are some physicians who operate "integrated" or "complementary" practices that may include naturopathy, nutrition medicine, herbal medicine or mind/body medicine.
Dr. Nancy Wardle, a Vancouver physician and psychotherapist, says "this is a very exciting time for integrative opportunities for other forms of healing." However, she acknowledges that a chasm yawns between many conventional physicians and alternative practitioners. "There is always going to be a perception that there are 2 different worlds," she says. However, Wardle considers the establishment of the Tzu Chi Institute "a very positive step" that will take considerable time, likely "a couple of generations," to be fully accepted by physicians.
Dingwall confirms that the institute has received a mixed response. On one hand, doctors from the Vancouver Hospital's gerontology and burns units have recently asked her for help with new approaches to care. On the other, some physicians have expressed concern to her. Some are being made uncomfortable by fundamental changes in the physician?patient relationship, which is leading to more autonomous patients becoming consumers of health care and selecting from an array of treatment choices.
Wardle says some physicians tell her that their role is being changed so much they are being forced to do work they were not trained for. Other doctors fear that initiatives like the institute may replace science with "pseudoscience." However, Dr. Derryck Smith, past president of the British Columbia Medical ***ociation (BCMA), says his ***ociation is "most pleased that the institute is based on bona fide research. We can all tell science from pseudoscience through the ways that research is dealt with during the peer-review process." A representative from the BCMA sits on the institute's continuing education committee and has been invited to join other committees.
Dr. Tom Handley, registrar at the College of Physicians and Surgeons of BC, notes that "medicine has been full of alternatives since time began, and the college is prepared to endorse the institute if it is truly a positive step towards truths and clarifying various methods of practice." The college expects that practitioners providing therapy at the institute will have had their credentials appraised. It is represented on the credentials committee.
Wardle, who says her 3-year-old practice in Vancouver has been well accepted by colleagues, is optimistic about the institute's future. "I am truly hopeful that within the medical community there would at least be the [emergence] of curiosity," she says.
For his part, Tze recognizes that it will take time for the institute to achieve its objectives, but he hopes it will "move forward" quickly.

kath ...@webtv.net (Kathryn Friesen)

Gee, Jan, I've managed to avoid Alternative Medicine for almost 67 years without the slightest problem. Well, that's not technically true as 8 years ago I underwent eight sessions of acupuncture for a frozen shoulder & frozen fingers after cast removal from surgery for a compound fractured left wrist suffered in a serious accident...fortunately, my only injury. The results: absolutely none, but I was $500 poorer.

ils ...@aol.comGitmo (Ilsa9)

You were quite patient to give the process that many chances. Physical Therapy doesn't always achieve its goals, either. Did you feel any differently as a result of the acupuncture? Did it affect your sleep, digestion, or anything else?

kath ...@webtv.net (Kathryn Friesen)

No I never had any bad repercussions from my eight acupuncture sessions.
Rather, it was a rather pleasant, calming experience after the accident/surgery trauma. I just didn't get any physical results. BTW, I was concurrently undergoing about the same number of physical therapy treatments per my orthopedist's orders & which my insurance plan did fully pay for.
Now if you want to hear "dumb"....in March of this year I suffered a badly throbbing & painful knee problem that just came out of nowhere. I was curious if acupuncture could do anything for "just plain pain" (Amazingly. except for a day or two post surgery, I didn't suffer pain from my very badly fractured wrist...only swelling, stiffness & immobility). To make a long story short, after two extended acupuncture sessions (1 & 1/2 hours vs. one hour) for this problem, I got absolutely no pain relief, at which point I turned myself in to the same orthopedist as in the first paragraph for x-rays & was put on an ibprofun (?) regimen, & four weeks later the pain finally went away.
I guess I'm just not susceptible to that "power of suggestion".

"Peter Moran" mori...@gil.com.au

...
You seem to be accepting that acupuncture lore regarding meridia and acupuncture points has some validity. I don't think that has been shown by any robust investigation. The fact that acupuncture points have varied widely throughout history, that similar results are claimed for ear acupuncture, a quite recent invention, and without needling at all, (acupressure, moxibustion and "laser" acupuncture) strongly suggests that acupuncture is just another "pretend" treatment.
In experimental studies there is evidence that any kind of placebo, not just acunpuncture, can act via the endorphin system. Whether this has much clinical relevance remains to be seen.
Actually with chronic pain, most studies and the better quality studies show that needling and other "acupuncture-based" modalities (there is no clear definition of what "acupuncture" is, certainy not within Chinese traditions) is ineffective beyond sham treatments.
How pathetic that such a widely hyped, star quality "alternative" treatment does not help doctors where we really could use some help! We don't have such a great need for more treatments for acute pain where there are far more rreliable and effective methods available.
Peter Moran.

kath ...@webtv.net (Kathryn Friesen)

Don't know, Rich, all I know is it didn't work two times. My husband had acupuncture sessions with an entirely different practitoner about 10 years earlier than my first visits for neck problems without any effect. It still bothers him in the same way off & on to this day, but not enough to seek treatment elsewhere.
I've heard the story of the acupuncturist who discontinued that line of work when he found he got good results no matter where he put the needles in. Whether true or not, it wouldn't surprise me that this would work with a lot of "certain people".

jdrew63 ...@aol.com (Jan)

Good for you!!!!
That's a blessing. OMMV.
My experience is much different than yours. I nearly died searching for my health problem. I turned to alternative because conventional had no answers. I did my own research and made a decision to get the metal removed from my mouth.
After see alternative practitioners and lots of chelating, I have renewed health.
Each person is different. Complementary/alternative medicine is growing. There is a reason and one is that conventional medicine DENIES many real diseases.
This is a warning from an MD as well as a study.
Jan http://tinyurl.com/z8t0 Ignore growing patient interest in alternative medicine at your peril, MDs warned Heather Kent CMAJ 1997;157:1427-
In brief Canada now has an institute to study alternative medicine and seek evidence concerning it. The founder, endocrinologist Wah Jun Tze, says most physicians appreciate that the institute will seek to find evidence for unproven therapies. It recently named a research director, and expects to have protocols for randomized, controlled studies in place by the new year. Herbal remedies are one likely candidate for study.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Sandwiched between the jumble of structures on the busy 12th Avenue site of the Vancouver Hospital sits a Canadian medical anomaly -- the Tzu Chi Institute, the country's first centre for evaluating alternative and complementary therapies. The goal of the institute, which opened in October 1996, is to research and select the most useful alternative treatments and eventually integrate them into conventional treatment programs. The institute says alternative therapies are those lacking scientific validation that are excluded from medical school training programs and uninsured by health plans.
Its driving force is Dr. Wah Jun Tze, an internationally recognized pediatric endocrinologist and Order of Canada recipient. He was motivated by a "tremendous public interest" in alternative medicine, particularly in BC's rapidly growing Lower Mainland. A recent Angus Reid poll commissioned by Tze found that 89% of respondents said that they would use a facility such as the new institute.
Tze, who says "physicians cannot afford to ignore this level of interest," adds that most doctors he has talked to "welcome more information" on alternative therapies. He thinks most physicians "appreciate that the institute is looking very carefully into promising approaches," based on scientific studies.
Tze obtained an endowment of $6 million over 5 years from the Tzu Chi Foundation, an international Buddhist charitable organization. The Vancouver Hospital board responded enthusiastically to the idea, supplying services and vacant buildings, which were extensively renovated with funds advanced from the endowment.
Interest earned from the endowment covers operating costs, but does not include compensation for therapists who will be contracted to conduct research. To cover these costs various options, including charging patients, are currently being explored.
Additional funding of $300 000 annually is being contributed by the institute's partners, such as the University of British Columbia and the BC Women's Hospital and Health Centre, and the Vancouver Hospital Foundation will donate $100 000 annually. The institute is also seeking private donations through sponsorships for equipment and other items, and there are plans to establish a foundation.
Partly because funding and staffing issues are still being resolved, the institute is not yet admitting patients. However, Dr. Allan Best, a psychologist, was recently named research director and chief executive officer at the institute, and prospective patients are being identified. They must complete a community needs-***essment questionnaire, which attempts to gauge their motivation for seeking care and to identify trends. By last March almost 400 completed questionnaires were being analysed by institute staff, and by this fall between 500 and 600 people had been identified as potential patients and research subjects.
Gina Dingwall, the institute's director of education and patient services, says most people seeking help from it have chronic conditions and want someone to manage their treatment -- they are seeking symptomatic treatment rather than a cure. They also want ***urance of the safety of alternative therapies. In questionnaires completed so far, most respondents have concerns relating to fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome or various types of cancer.
The centre is not aiming to target BC's large Asian population. Dingwall says that many recent Asian immigrants tend to continue using traditional practitioners, as they did before coming to Canada. Although ethnicity is not identified in the survey, Dingwall estimates that 10% to 15% of respondents are of Asian descent.
Dingwall says completed questionnaires have pointed to "a huge disgruntlement" with the relationship many respondents have with their physicians. Some patients stated that their doctors offer only drugs and surgery and have no background in alternative therapies, while others say that their doctors will no longer see them if they undergo alternative care.
Dingwall ***erts that some doctors "suffer from an intolerance and disinterest" in chronic conditions. This, combined with a lack of "legitimized" medical school training in alternative care, results in a "mutual paranoia" between alternative practitioners and many conventional physicians. However, she hopes that a "complementary relationship" eventually develops with doctors. "We are here to facilitate change and see where their challenges are," she says.
Dingwall and her colleagues are developing an ***essment tool to evaluate symptoms cited by survey respondents. They will then ***ign patients to pilot research projects designed to evaluate the efficacy of alternative treatments.
Initially, about 6 projects are planned, and therapies selected may range from therapeutic touch to herbal remedies. Following the pilot studies, research will be carried out on a larger scale for therapies that offer the most promise. The treatments eventually offered by the institute will therefore be based upon positive research outcomes.
The pilot studies will be conducted by certified practitioners working under Allan Best's supervision. They will be selected from therapists, ranging from homeopaths to biofeedback therapists, who have approached the institute.
Among the practitioners, who meet regularly with the institute, are some physicians who operate "integrated" or "complementary" practices that may include naturopathy, nutrition medicine, herbal medicine or mind/body medicine.
Dr. Nancy Wardle, a Vancouver physician and psychotherapist, says "this is a very exciting time for integrative opportunities for other forms of healing." However, she acknowledges that a chasm yawns between many conventional physicians and alternative practitioners. "There is always going to be a perception that there are 2 different worlds," she says. However, Wardle considers the establishment of the Tzu Chi Institute "a very positive step" that will take considerable time, likely "a couple of generations," to be fully accepted by physicians.
Dingwall confirms that the institute has received a mixed response. On one hand, doctors from the Vancouver Hospital's gerontology and burns units have recently asked her for help with new approaches to care. On the other, some physicians have expressed concern to her. Some are being made uncomfortable by fundamental changes in the physician?patient relationship, which is leading to more autonomous patients becoming consumers of health care and selecting from an array of treatment choices.
Wardle says some physicians tell her that their role is being changed so much they are being forced to do work they were not trained for. Other doctors fear that initiatives like the institute may replace science with "pseudoscience." However, Dr. Derryck Smith, past president of the British Columbia Medical ***ociation (BCMA), says his ***ociation is "most pleased that the institute is based on bona fide research. We can all tell science from pseudoscience through the ways that research is dealt with during the peer-review process." A representative from the BCMA sits on the institute's continuing education committee and has been invited to join other committees.
Dr. Tom Handley, registrar at the College of Physicians and Surgeons of BC, notes that "medicine has been full of alternatives since time began, and the college is prepared to endorse the institute if it is truly a positive step towards truths and clarifying various methods of practice." The college expects that practitioners providing therapy at the institute will have had their credentials appraised. It is represented on the credentials committee.
Wardle, who says her 3-year-old practice in Vancouver has been well accepted by colleagues, is optimistic about the institute's future. "I am truly hopeful that within the medical community there would at least be the [emergence] of curiosity," she says.
For his part, Tze recognizes that it will take time for the institute to achieve its objectives, but he hopes it will "move forward" quickly.

Lloyd ...@webtv.net

Oh, yeh, she did use that "moxibushion" or whatever it's called in most, if not all, of those eight sessions, along with the needling, though not on either of my two "knee" visits.

Happy Oyster happy.oys...@ariplex.com

Where does this "Re:" come from ? Another forgery by Jan Drew ?
Seeding fear, seeding greed among the MDs...
Just another typical fraudulent trick of the naturopath mafia and their advertizing agency Jan Drew.
Regards, Aribert Deckers
--
World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management" http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_p0.htm

ils ...@aol.comGitmo (Ilsa9)

My acupuncturist is not a fan of moxabustion. He often uses liniments for knee pain along with the acupuncture.

ils ...@aol.comGitmo (Ilsa9)

Hmmm, good results in most(?) cases and he decides it isn't worth doing? It almost sounds like he was practicing on patients to simply verify the methodology. It would have made more sense for him to quit if he got poor results, not because it worked better than expected.
I've heard an acupuncturist say that with some patients, they feel better when they get on the table. Sometimes, feeling like you are doing something about your problem is enough to provide a sense of relief which could result in a reduction in symptoms. He further adds, though, that some patients don't feel better until certain points are needled and that they often have the text book effect on the person.
A good test of Acupuncture efficacy is to go for a treatment when you have a really bad hang-over. I'm told that the pain relief in the first 2 minutes will convince the most skeptical drinker alive.

jdrew63 ...@aol.com (Jan)

Happy Oyster happy.oys...@ariplex.com

Here we have the fourth case.
Which proves, again, that Jan Drew is a liar. Jan Drew claimed to have me killfiled : <quote> Lines: 24 X-Admin: n...@aol.com From: jdrew63...@aol.com (Jan) Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry Date: 21 Oct 2003 22:47:53 GMT References: <1g377q3.sqoinq2dp4igN%down@thekraal.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: JianDrew is *not* a Dentist Message-ID: <20031021184753.15709.00000974@mb-m13.aol.com> <snip> I have him killfiled, but this is ANOTHER lie, I do not use foul language.
There is no such thing as naturopath mafiosi I have not told parents to not vacination their children.
Everything this man says about me is a lie.
Jan </quote> Regards, Aribert Deckers
--
World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management" http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_p0.htm

Happy Oyster happy.oys...@ariplex.com

Let's look at the perils of usenet.
<quote> Lines: 30 X-Admin: n...@aol.com From: jdrew63...@aol.com (Jan) Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry Date: 13 Oct 2003 21:22:26 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Oyster Has a Screw Loose Message-ID: <20031013172226.02137.00000965@mb-m01.aol.com> Subject: Re: [FAQ about Jan Drew's advertizing for quackery] 20031013 From: chuckm...@aol.com (ChuckMSRD) Date: 10/13/2003 12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <20031013163901.24881.00000240@mb-m17.aol.com> Happy Oyster is a paronoid slanderer, using my name irresponsibly and illegally.
In other words anyone who has been a victim of Hg poisoning and dare share their experience and knowledge.
Chuck http://www.sierratimes.com/03/09/02/health.htm Aribert Deckers is a wam bat, his posts are filed with lies.
I post websites, I advertise for no one.
Everyone here knows I am not male, but he still posts that I am.
I have him killfiled, he does nothing but blather.
And lie.
Jan </quote> Jan Drew claims to have me killfiled. Which is proven wrong.
Jan Drew uses foul language.
Jan Drew insults.
More about Jan Drew you can read in the FAQ about Jan Drew.
Regards, Aribert Deckers
--
World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management" http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_p0.htm

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