Please can someone help
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"angelsblaze" angelsbl...@hotmail.com
I have 2 boys one has been diagnosed with ADHD the other possible as he shows symptoms. My eldest was taking Ritalin but has since refused to take it so the docs took him off it, our other son was to young at the time to even consider it, the schools are saying neither have ADHD and that they are just badly behaved children, and they refuse to conform to the school rules. We are ripping our hair out trying to do what??™s best for our kids, they have missed so much schooling due to these reintegration programs our youngest has only ever done one full week at school and he is in his 3rd yr now and due to start junior school in September, and my eldest has been on and off them if he steps out of line they shove him straight back on a program he is starting high school in September, the schools have had our boys on these programs for 4 yrs in total now, they both only do three hours of school a day the more school they miss the more they fall behind which will only frustrate them more and make them worse in the long run.
We feel both boys are being kept from school for something they may do, not did do, which is illegal but it seems the schools are using these programs to suspend children, I carnt seem to find any information about reintegration programs and the legality of them, can anyone please help me find any information on these programs? Also do we have a say about our kids being placed on them? Can we insist their time is increased? Even if the head is not agreeable. Both boys have SEN to help them return to full time school but after 12 months their time in school has not increased, yet their behaviour has shown a marked improvement, yeah the schools say they want us involved and value our input and support, they invite us to meetings etc but nothing we say is ever acted upon, we are just told this is how it is going to be deal with it. In fact we were told just the other month at yet another pointless meeting that until our sons learn to conform to the school rules and behave as the other children do they will not increase his time, also unless he is supported at all times they wont increase it, I??™m sorry but they are never going to behave like other children and there is no way either of our boys will get full time 1-1 support, so does this mean they are never going to have a proper education? We thought every child was entitled to a decent education, guess that only covers the well-behaved children and not the ones who find learning a difficult.
"J. Clarke" jcla...@nospam.invalid
Where are you located? The reason I ask is that you use several terms which aren't in common use in the United States, for example "reintegration programs" and "SEN", leading me to believe that you are somewhere else where the laws are going to be different. It's important to know where you are so that people won't give you advice that is based on different statutes.
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--John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
n ...@leverton.org (Nick Leverton)
With no alternative ? Did they step up the educational provision instead ?
I think an SEN's job should be to fit the educational surroundings to the child at least as much as the other way around. "Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator" implies mutual co-ordination :) Special Needs provision is funded by the County in the UK, it isn't up to the school, and if the County's money is going to waste they ought to be told.
My current understanding (as a listener in a case) is that when a child has a Dx and a statement, his provision can't be withdrawn either by parent or school without the County's say-so.
And they say it isn't working ? :-) Sometimes though kids will work off suppressed energy in another direction.
What country are you in ? Have both your kids got diagnoses ? We're in the UK, and we found once J had a Dx, the health service recommended a school with the right capabilities, even when we weren't in its catchment.
Have you asked your child's pdoc about the problems (if so, do you trust his/her answers ?) (Mind you J's still educating them about their capabilities, they may not estimate the right support to begin with !) Nick
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"My objective at this stage was to work about 3 days per week" -- Richard Parker in http://web.ukonline.co.uk/richard/cv78.html
"angelsblaze" angelsbl...@hotmail.com
Hi sorry i am in the UK
"angelsblaze" angelsbl...@hotmail.com
My youngest son was in school for just the three hour morning session without the SEN, and the school were as they say "coping well" but now he has his SEN he is still only doing the three hours in the morning as the school have refused to take him without afternoon support which he is never going to get.
m ...@earthlink.net (Emma Anne)
Angelsblaze, that is a *really* long block of text with no paragraph breaks or blank lines. I know this sounds really picky, but on this newsgroup, many more people will read your posts if you use short paragraphs with blank lines between.
"angelsblaze" angelsbl...@hotmail.com
We live in the United Kingdom and have 2 boys one has been diagnosed with ADHD the other possible as he shows symptoms.
My eldest was taking Ritalin but has since refused to take it so the docs took him off it, our other son was to young at the time to even consider it.
The schools are saying neither have ADHD and that they are just badly behaved children, as they refuse to conform to the school rules. We are ripping our hair out trying to do what??™s best for our kids, they have missed so much schooling due to these reintegration programs, our youngest has only ever done one full week at school and he is in his 3rd yr now, Our eldest has been on and off them, if he steps out of line they shove him straight back on a program he.
The schools have had our boys on these programs for 4 yrs in total now, they both only do three hours of school a day, the more school they miss the more they fall behind, which will only frustrate them more and make them worse in the long run.
We feel both boys are being kept from school for something they may do, not did do, which is illegal, but it seems the schools are using these programs to suspend children.
We carnt seem to find any information about reintegration programs and the legality of them, can anyone please help us find any information on these programs?
Do we have a say about our kids being placed on them?
Can we insist their time is increased? Even if the head is not agreeable.
Both boys have SEN to help them return to full time school but after 12 months their time in school has not increased, yet their behaviour has shown a marked improvement.
The schools say they want us involved and value our input and support, they invite us to meetings etc but nothing we say is ever acted upon, we are just told this is how it is going to be deal with it.
We were told just the other month at yet another pointless meeting, that until our sons learn to conform to the school rules and behave as the other children, they will not increase their time, they must be supported at all times.
I??™m sorry to have to say this, but if we are honest, they are never going to behave like other children, there is no way either of our boys will get full time support.
So does this mean they are never going to have a proper education?
We thought every child was entitled to a decent education, guess that only covers the well-behaved children and not the ones who find learning a difficult.
Howard Shubs how...@shubs.net
In article <75e63e0be2f3aeb0d2ad02e492a1c...@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>, Is home schooling an option?
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Your prison is walking through this world all alone.
"angelsblaze" angelsbl...@hotmail.com
Home schooling is an option, I did think about it but I do not feel confident enough within myself to be able to give the boys the education they need.
I mean where would I start?
Plus my ex would have a major fit if I were to remove them from school.
"angelsblaze" angelsbl...@hotmail.com
Sorry, i dont think its picky at all, I just get so used to typing away then hitting the send button.
I have placed an updated post hope this makes things easier.
m ...@earthlink.net (Emma Anne)
I have thought about home schooling once or twice, and I figured out pretty quickly that Unschooling is probably the only program that would work for me. Trying to make my daughter sit down and work on a specific program for hours would just make her hate *me* rather than school, and it's not my personality either (she likes school again, which is why I haven't considered home schooling for a while). So Unschooling may be something for you to look into.
espi9 ...@hotmail.com (espi)
Hi, I would like to discuss your problem in detail to see if I can help.
In the past I have suggested a few things to people that have proved helpful with their children and I am doing fine with mine too. I will need plenty more information for this so if interested please e-mail me. Let me know about your boys - age, when the problem began, in what ways are they disruptive, what is their typical daily routine, food habits etc.
One thing I would like to mention right here -
I believe a lot of behaviour problems that children exhibit today is more a result of lifestyle or factors that are unsuitable for them in some ways and correcting them can make a significant difference.
Personally I wouldn't put my child on drugs no matter what.The fact that children are being prescribed drugs for this and that shows we are slowly getting increasingly out of touch with understanding human nature and good common sense approaches to life's many problems and it worries me.
"J. Clarke" jcla...@nospam.invalid
Why can't yhou give these recommendations here? Perhaps you're afraid that people who have been living with ADHD for decades are going to tear you a new one?
Are you a licensed practitioner of any kind? If so what kind and licensed by who and where did you get your training?
On what evidence do you base this belief?
Now let's see, if your kid was diagnosed with cancer and the doctor recommended chemotherapy you wouldn't put your child on drugs no matter what so you'd let him die?
In the context of ADHD, if your kid is diagnosed and you deny him treatment, when he figures out years later what you did to him do you think he's going to thank you for it?
Do you have any personal experience with ADHD? If so, what experience?
Or maybe "good common sense approaches to life's many problems" don't always work and the fact that medications are prescribed to treat various conditions shows that we are getting increasingly _in_ touch with understanding human nature, to the point that we can identify specific problems that people have and treat them in a manner more effective than just suffering with the problem like a virtuous little Puritan.
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--John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Vashti vashti...@hotmail.com
It wasn't a dark and stormy night when J. Clarke wrote: Ooh, Sir! Sir! I know the answer, can I say it? Can I, huh? Pleeaaase can I? ;) Diagnosed at age 32 I can't fault my parents since they did *try* to find out what was going on but if I'd have found out that they just didn't want me to get treatment I would have livid to say the least!
As it is it's hard to come to terms with all the what-ifs, I can't imagine what it'd be like to be purposefully denied treatment.
Vashti
Vashti vashti...@hotmail.com
It wasn't a dark and stormy night when sam ende wrote: Yep, I recall another post offering help via email... I guess the help offered can't stand up to the scrutiny it'd receive here!
Vashti
espi9 ...@hotmail.com (espi)
Hi there,JC - if I may call you that.
I like to find out in detail about the person and understand his/her problem thoroughly before making any suggestions and that would require quite a few e-mails to and fro full of tedious details of day to day life etc.
No, see above. Since every person is a unique individual with a unique personality , no two ADHD sufferers will respond in the same way to the same changes. It is better therefore to understand the person as an individual.
I am not a licensed practitioner. We are here to share opinions and experiences,and give helpful suggestions to each other if possible and not practice medicine. My suggestions are the kind one parent would give another. People everywhere do it all the time- discuss/share their problems and advise each other as friends.
I do have a degree in science however after which I studied nutrition and child psychology. I am also a parent with a child who has similar problems. The paediatrician and psychologist who saw him said during the discussions with me that I was dealing with the problem much better than they expected so nothing else was required and with time my child would be fine. He is doing better than expected.
The psychologist (who saw my child)happened to mention this herself-
we both were in agreement. Also I have handled some disruptive children myself and those children responded favourably to little changes that were made in their routine/ food habits.It helped tone down their behaviour which is the first step towards improvement.
While lifestyle/food habits don't initiate the behaviour problem, they can aggravate it. For example its common knowledge that certain food additives cause hyperactivity in children.
We are not talking about cancer here but behavioral problem which is not life threatening and often responds favourably to changes that are made *to suit* the child.
Behaviour of a person after all is his /her response to stimuli or way of coping with a situation. Negative/disruptive behaviour indicates the child is not able to cope with something. So the next step is to find out what it is that is causing it, then reduce/eliminate it, sometimes try and desensitize if need be, and so on.
I believe in understanding the child and his needs first and foremost so their fears/uneasiness/inability to cope can be taken care of.
Drugs can only have a temporary effect. Taken too long they often cause permanent damage as most have side effects. What if the drugs cause severe damages to health or death as mentioned here -
http://www.ritalindeath.com/.
I never talked about suffering, but looking at the problem in its entirity, ***essing all the factors that may be affecting the child.
You have every right to disagree and I respect your opinion. Perhaps you have seen drugs working wonders with ADHD sufferers in which case please do share what you know, it'll help me learn. I am always looking for information.
In the meantime a few links for angelsblaze and anyone else who would like to read. May be of use.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/Publicat/ADHD.cfm http://kidshealth.org/kid/health_problems/learning_problem/adhdkid.html http://familydoctor.org/118.xml http://www.mentalhealth.com/mag1/p5m-add2.html http://telosnet.com/review/adhd_1.html
"J. Clarke" jcla...@nospam.invalid
And that can't be done here why?
Are you claiming that ADHD a personality disorder? Why are you better qualified to "understand the person as an individual" than is a licensed practitioner?
Are you not practicing psychology?
Problems similar to what? Was your child diagnosed with a medical condition and if so what was the diagnosis?
What was "expected"?
Did the psychologist state that ADHD was "a result of lifestyle or factors that are unsuitable for them"?
Had those children been diagnosed with ADHD? Were they being treated for it?
Common to who? Would you care to reference peer-reviewed research to support that contention?
I see. So are you saying then that there _is_ a circumstance under which you would "put your child on drugs"?
And if the child can't cope with normal everyday situations that he or she is going to be encountering for the rest of his or her life, then what?
I see. So how does "understanding the child" allow their "fears/uneasiness/inability to cope" to be "taken care of"?
Would you care to cite research to support that claim?
What side effects of the medications commonly prescribed for the treatment of ADHD "cause permanent damage" and would you be kind enough to characterize that damage?
What if George Bush really is the Antichrist? The site you link is apparently run by the parents of a child who an unscrupulous physician with a known political agenda claimed had died as a result of the long term use of Ritalin. Apparently the parents bought into this. Would you care to provide a link to a _credible_ source? The simple fact that someone claims something on a Web site doesn't make it so.
No, you didn't. You don't seem to understand that untreated ADHD causes suffering.
And what if the "factors" "affecting the child" are the child's own brain chemistry?
And you like Mom and apple pie too I presume.
Why don't you try reading a newsgroup before you post? I haven't _seen_ it, I've _lived_ it and still live it and know what it's like to spend most of your life with untreated ADHD. You're not dealing with people who read about ADHD in a book, you're dealing with people who have to live with it, and who know first hand what the meds do.
"The results of the study indicated that long-term combination treatments and the medication-management alone were superior to intensive behavioral treatment and routine community treatment." Seems they disagree with your viewpoint.
Nothing there that contradicts the NIMH.
"Things that don't cause ADHD: Bad parenting (though a disorganized home life and school environment can make symptoms worse) Too much sugar Too little sugar Aspartame (brand name: Nutrasweet) Food additives or colorings Food allergies or other allergies Lack of vitamins Fluorescent lights Too much TV Video games" Seems they disagree with your suggested causes. The suggested treatments are pretty much the same as the NIMH study indicates. The list of medications indicates that the site has not been updated in a long while.
Five years old--predates the multimodal study the NIMH cites. Further, it's apparently a news report, which may or may not bear any relation to what the British Psychological Society report said.
Further, you might want to try <http://www.bps.org.uk/press/press.cfm?action=details&id=21>, in which the British Psychological Society says something quite different.
"ADHD Is Not Usually Caused by: too much TV food allergies excess sugar poor home life poor schools " Seems to disagree with your view on causes. Further, its section on medications is extensive and again pretty much agrees with the NIMH multimodal study.
Looks like your own sources pretty much shoot down your argument.
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--John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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