need help, adhd
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"David Haze" restingcomforta...@removethishome.com
My (not my wife's) son, 11, just came to live with us. (Wife, 2 other children also ours, 8, 12, yes do the math).
I did not meet him til he was 8.
His mother just p***ed away due to adv liver problems due to alchohol abuse.
She was never married.
He is taking Concerta 54mg for ADHD combo.
He has been on Ritalin of some form since 1997 without any significant time off.
I met with his doc. The medication is based solely on how his behavior was described by his mother. He said the meds treat symptoms, either lack of focus or impulses, but mostly designed around performance at school. So it is up to my wife and I want we want to do. Seems if we are able to manage him, no medication is required.
My son is 61 lbs, smallest in his cl***, by far, very bright, quick wit.
My problem is that I do not have any idea of his baseline.
On the meds he is pretty loud and boisterous in the am, then pretty good all day, even sometimes seems over medicated, then up a lot in the pm.
Very little appetite most of the time, trouble getting to sleep.
Behaviors include rough play, interrupting when spoken to, rude, wisecracks, horrendous manners, all either early am or late pm, most of which I attribute to not having anyone actually teach him what is acceptable and what is not. He seems to be able to modify his behavior when there are definite consequences to his actions.
With his mother an alchoholic now p***ing weeks ago, there seems to be plenty of reasons for him to act out throughout his childhood.
Most of what I have read says there is no "withdrawal" from Ritalin, and the doc said the appetite issue does not affect eventual adult size and weight. I do find it hard to believe that having ones body survive on the absolute min calories, basically a starvation diet severe enough to affect growth rate, does not have other affects as well. The doc said the meds were very safe, much safer than many other meds for other common things, like asthma. I think he meant no one ever died because of Ritalin. Once on the stuff, does anyone get off? His only time off last year was forgeting to take a pill one day and getting suspended at school during a meltdown, his teachers then say 'yes, the meds really need to be taken'. Do any docs do any testing? Seems like if I don't want to screw with it, he will be on it forever?
What to do now? I don't think we will be moving off meds right away, he has a new family, new house, new school, and lost his Mom. Can't be many more things that could increase his stress levels.
Any wisdom would be appreciated.
D
george_of_the_jun ...@my-deja.com (george_of_the_jungle)
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:32:24 GMT, "David Haze" Well, stimulants wear off pretty fast so you can find out on a long weekend.
It could be typical ADD behaviour. I interrupt when spoken to and I kicked more than a few butts at his age.
True but that doesn't tell you about the other issues.
A few hours of irritability called rebound and that's it.
and the he may well be that way without meds.
Sure. Just don't take it for a day or whatever.
If it helps him and he choses to continue with it what's the issue?
Often medication isn't needed as much as social skills and self-control develop with age. The children of alcoholics need lots of help no matter what so professional psych. help is a good idea.
That;'s very rough.
Stay cool & show him love.
-George
nknisley nknis...@bcpl.net
How terrible for him. Is he getting any kind of couseling?
It seems to me that parents are usually alerted by either academic problems or problems at home. But for anyone to be diagnosed with ADHD, "Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings." (DSM-IV). For most children, that means difficulties at school and at home.
In case you're just learning about ADHD, the difficulties don't have to be bad behavior kinds of problems. My son, was never a behavior problem.
But he's always been spacy, unfocused, forgetful, always losing things, unable to get organized.
Not necessarily. My son required no "management" at home (unless you count things like my having to remind him just about every single day in elementary school, "Don't forget your backpack" as he started walking out the door without it.
Those with ADHD all have trouble with focus and distraction. While at home this may need a major problem, at school it might very well be a big issue. It's hard to learn if your mind isn't on what the teacher is saying but jumping around as your focus shifts.
Have you talked to his teacher to find out how he's doing in school right now?
Since ADHD medications are all out of the system quickly (Concerta should be out of the system after 12 hours or so) it shouldn't be hard to find out. But that won't tell you what he's like in school unmedicated.
To tell how effective the medication is in school, talk to hi
nknisley nknis...@bcpl.net
Sorry. I don't know what happened in mid-reply, but I'll try again.
How terrible for him. Is he getting any kind of grief counseling?
It seems to me that parents are usually alerted by either academic problems or problems at home. But for anyone to be diagnosed with ADHD, the following criteria must be met: "Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings." (DSM-IV). For most children, that means difficulties at school and at home.
In case you're just learning about ADHD, the difficulties don't have to be bad behavior kinds of problems. My son, was never a behavior problem.
But he's always been spacy, unfocused, forgetful, always losing things, unable to get organized.
Not necessarily. My son required no "management" at home (unless you count things like my having to remind him just about every single day in elementary school, "Don't forget your backpack" as he started walking out the door without it.) Those with ADHD all have trouble with focus and distraction. While at home this may not be a major problem, at school, it might very well be a *big* problem. It's hard to learn if your mind isn't on what the teacher is saying but instead jumping around as your focus shifts.
Have you talked to his teacher to find out how he's doing in school right now?
You might be interested in the study which shows that being small for age is linked to ADHD, not with the amount ADHD kids eat or the medications they take. Someone here may have cites to the study. If not, you can probably find it on MEDLINE. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hinfo.html Since ADHD medications are all out of the system quickly (Concerta should be out of the system after 12 hours or so), it shouldn't be hard to find out. But that won't tell you what he's like in school unmedicated unless you check with the teacher or the teacher notes more problems in school while he's unmedicated.
To tell how effective the medication is in school, talk to his teacher about how he's doing in school while he's medicated. Then, if you and his doctor are comfortable with the idea, send him to school without medication for a few days. Ask the teacher after he's gone to school unmedicated for a while if she'd noticed any difference in his behaviors or performance. If his behavior is seriously negatively effected, you may hear from the teacher even before you ask.
Your son also may be able to tell you if his concentration is worse without medication, but that's not always accurate as people with ADHD are sometimes bad self-observers and feedback from a third part might be better.
While that certainly is a possibility, it's also possible that the behaviors are due to the trauma of his mother's death. Or to ADHD. Or some other behavioral disorder.
While medicated or unmedicated?
Talk to his pediatrician and discuss your concerns. He may be able to suggest ways to pack more nutritious calories into what your son does eat.
He might have meant that serious side effects with Ritalin are pretty uncommon.
Yes. Some people seem to learn enough coping mechanisms while on medication that they can do OK without it after a while.
It's now pretty commonly recognized that children do not just "outgrow" ADHD when they get older. However, I've read that there's a percentage of children with ADHD who seem less-ADHD as they get older. Maybe someone who is more of an expert on ADHD than I am can tell us if that's still current information or not.
Then there are individuals who stop taking medication after a while because they either have unacceptable side-effects or they don't like the way they feel while taking medication or because the medication stops being effective.
ADHD seems mostly to be diagnosed based on the patient's history and current behaviors. However, Mark Morin, who knows a great deal about psychological testing, has mentioned there are ways to test for attention or lack thereof. Maybe he can tell you more.
One other way of finding out if he really needs medication is to stop for a while and see what happens. If things start going wrong, you can restart Concerta. It takes effect very shortly after it's been taken.
However, you should probably discuss this with your son's doctor first.
Some people have taken ADHD medication for many years without problem.
Is there some particular reason you are worried about his being on the medication forever?
I think this is wise. Give him time to adjust before you make any more changes in his life so you can get a more accurate picture of what's going on with him.
Let us know how things go.
Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe cather...@whitepine.com
We're now giving the kids Ovaltene (sp?) with breakfast (and dinner, too, if they want) because our non-ADHD son is small for his age.
Chewy's mom was worried abt his size, afraid he wasn't getting enough to eat, so we added the Ovaltene to ease her concerns. The extra vitamins won't hurt anything.
I was going to comment on this, but after Chewy called me a pervert, I thought better of it. After all, the OP is a newbie to the group, right?
Kitten
--
"In an airport one day, I was observing all the young people and I wondered if they had a cowboy to look up to, what would their world be like. I wrote this one on the flight from Portland to Chicago." - - Dan Roberts http://www.cowhand.com/tracks/cowhand_tracks/wav/cowhandtrk2.wav
julian9 ...@aol.com (Julian9EHP)
[ . . . ] DH used to take Carnation Instant Breakfast. Then it got too expensive; and we had reservations about Nestle. There's a copy-cat recipe site. There are also smoothies. :-) E. P.
nknisley nknis...@bcpl.net
Geez, Kitten, I'm starting to think you're even worse (or, depending how you look at these things, even better) than I am! <g> Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe cather...@whitepine.com
We used to do smoothies all the time... until the kids got tired of having them every morning with breakfast. Or was it that I got tired of having to make them every morning? That was when I was working full-time and all the kids were in public school.
Kitten
--
"In an airport one day, I was observing all the young people and I wondered if they had a cowboy to look up to, what would their world be like. I wrote this one on the flight from Portland to Chicago." - - Dan Roberts http://www.cowhand.com/tracks/cowhand_tracks/wav/cowhandtrk2.wav
julian9 ...@aol.com (Julian9EHP)
Apparently you can freeze the fruit. :-)
"SumBuny4Me" sumb...@TAKETHISOUThome.com
All I can say is thank goodness for Pop Tarts.....
--
Buny
----"Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus "Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe" <cather...@whitepine.com> wrote in message ...
Katz Heitmann Katz...@mindspring.com
The boy is too thin and getting no sleep at all you should take him off meds one weekend and see what happens with your doctor's ***istance of course. I think you should try a lower dose because the boy with a low appetite and gaining not enough weight is not healthy. It would be better he not be on medication get enough food and rest and be a little over active or very over active than for him not to sleep or eat enough. You don't get healthy boy that way. It is obvious he does not get enough to eat or enough sleep and that can make anyone grumpy and out of sorts. Once you get him fattened up and sleeping properly then you can consider a change of meds try eliminate the last dose of meds maybe serve warm milk or something to make him sleepy at night. Tell his doctor you worry he is too skinny and does not sleep enough. A smaller dose may work but I think concerta isn't what he should be on because it doesn't help not only that it makes him skinny and not sleep right. He won't grow right if he doesn't eat enough. He will get sick if he prowls around all night and then is up all day.
I know nothing of concerta but it doesn't appear to be helping in his case I don't think. Read up on Fetal Alcohol syndrome maybe it has something to do with this because his mom took too much alcohol normally she might have likely done so when he was inside her which may account for some of what is wrong with the boy.
That doctor is wrong not eat enough is not good it will make him sick children have enough sicknesses to need extra weight. Check if he is malnurished because his mom probably let him eat junk food. If he is malnurished then that is bad which I think is very likely. If you don't get him off this med and get some food shoveled into him then he might be in danger.
Yes he probably does need something to help him comntrol himself but I don't honestly think concerta would be an effective medication. Might try ritalin but it may have the same problems since he appears very sensative to stimulant meds. I might recommend dex but be very careful with it it can cause the same problem as his current med. Maybe dex because alcohol at birth causes probably an atrophy of frontal lobe. Or maybe adderal might help but in any case I think you should get him off concerta before he gets sick and put him on something else since it doesn't seem to work like it should.
--
-Katz Heitmann I never went to kindergarden so all I needed to know I learned from Shakespeare. You won't survive long if you live in a Shakespearian tragedy.
There are few human problems which can not be solved with the jucicious application of high explosives. (And if that doesn't work, try duct tape) Reach out and byte someone:)
-Comp*** Media
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