Meaning of commitment
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ange ...@confluencia.remove.this.net (a n g e l e t)
Dear folks, Once again, someone asked me if I was "committed" in my relationships.
Once again I didn't know what to respond. I didn't have time to discuss what exactly was he meaning. However as it seems to have a well known meaning, at least in this NG, I would like to know what does it mean to you in the context of relationships.
I'm interested in what you think is the essence of the issue, i.e. an abstract definition, and how it is "implemented" into acts or whatever "observable event" in your particular case.
Thank you, angelet.
a ...@panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
"well-known" is not the same as "agreed-upon". ;-) For me, commitment WRT relationships has to do with the amount of work I'm willing to do if/when there are problems. There are other things that go along with it, of course, but that's the gist.
--
--- Aahz <*> (Copyright 2001 by a...@pobox.com) Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/ Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista "activist for accuracy" --SJM
"Ancilla" anci...@inav.net
Hello, This may not be a direct answer to your question, but it is what I say when someone asks me about polyamory and commitment. I include definitions so that they will know if their definitions for some of the words I use are different than the definitions I am using for them...
To me polyamory is honestly, openly, ethically loving or being open to loving more than one person. I can't honestly or ethically promise to love "you" and only "you" for the rest of my life whether the "you" is singular or plural because I cant promise to never fall in love again. I am interested in long-term committed relationships and I don't see polyamory and commitment as mutually exclusive. I believe commitment to be the promise and then the action of working to the best of one's abilities to be honest, caring, supportive and to get over/around/through obstacles life tosses into a relationship.
Ancilla
jenni ...@spin.intranet.org (JennieD-O'C)
I won't vouch for anyone but myself, but when I speak of a committed relationship, I mean a relationship in which there is at least some degree of an explicitly-stated commitment to a common future.
--
Jennie D-O'C <jenni...@intranet.org> http://home.intranet.org/~jenniedo/ There's more than one answer to these questions pointing me in a crooked line And the less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine -- the Indigo Girls
The Ogre o...@totalmail.com
It does?
Granted, I've been away a while, and I've never been a terribly prolific poster on this NG, but I think everyone I know has at least small differnce in how they mean that word.
Some disclaimers: I haven't been poly for terribly long (8 months or so), am married, and have two sweeties other than my wife, and my wife & I do heirarchical polyamoury. I'm not "in love" with either of my OSO's; one is very new (as of Sunday), I've ben with the other one for about 5 months. I do feel a sense of commitment to both of them as well as to my wife. Also, the level of commitment varies from relationship to relationship.
For me, "commitment" means that I have taken on some amount of responsibility where that other person is concerned; that this person matters to me, and that their the state of their well-being affects me in some way. This is less with my OSO's than with my wife, but it's still there - and it's different in texture than the kind of responsibility that I feel towards close friends. The "responsibility" is specifically aimed at the other person's state of well-being.
--
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"Ouside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inisde a dog, it's too dark to read." ---Groucho Marx
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lizw8 ...@my-deja.com
I agree with those who've already expressed doubt as to whether or not there's a "well-known" single meaning.
"Committed" can mean two different, but related things to me. In some contexts, it distinguishes what I call a partnership from what I call a friendship; there is a stronger emotional bond, and I am willing to put in considerably more effort to maintaining that bond, whereas I am content for friendships to drift closer and further away by turns without necessarily feeling that this is something which needs "fixing". If I drift beyond a certain distance from a partner, I will try to address that with zir and either reverse it or redefine the parameters of the relationship. The precise distance varies from partner to partner, though.
In other contexts, it means what I call "formally committed", i.e. it refers to someone to whom I have made promises in a ritual context. For me, that is very likely to include a lifetime commitment, in which case I will refer to the partner concerned as a spouse and possibly a husband or wife. Other people in my social circle have made formal commitments with a different content.
Liz
--
The distinction of vice and virtue is not founded merely on the relations of objects, nor is perceiv'd by reason.
- David Hume, 1739
ange ...@confluencia.remove.this.net (a n g e l e t)
Thank you all, silly as it may seem, this really helps me !
I feel identified with most of what you say and I feel that beyond particular variations there is indeed one common underlying meaning.
So far, I think that my definition would be something like "the willingness to work on the relationship to deepen it / keep it " Worthy to mention that commitment is a question of degree and not a boolean data. This is important to me because the way I remember the question being posed most of the times, it implies that one is "absolutely committed" or not at all, without any intermediate position possible.
a.
songb ...@totalink.net (songbird)
a n g e l e t wrote: words i take as intent or statement of future intentions.
actions through time i take as a demonstration of commitment.
so while someone might make commitments and i will wish that they follow through on those commitments, i have no idea if they actually will until they have been tested through time and circumstances.
the sense i get within a solid relationship (of any sort) is that there is some commitment to communicate and be together at times and that the commitment is mutual and acknowledged as such.
songbird *tweets*
For Madmen Only f...@usa.net
Songbird, I like so much how you put this. For me personally, words are not commitment (for the kind of commitment we seem to be discussing here. I'm pretty willing to say that if I agree to pick something up at the store for OWIDNCS[1] I've made a "commitment" to do so, for some teensy-weensy value of commitment). For me, commitment is not something between me and another person, really. It's an internal state of intentions and strength of feeling about ways in which I hope and intend to feel and behave. When I act in accordance with those hopes and intentions I am showing my commitment. Since others will not explicitly know everything about my hopes and intentions, the acts as "commitment" may not be immediately clear to everyone. However, my actions through time demonstrate my commitments, and they need never have been stated. A person may not even be explicitly aware of my level of commitment involving zir.
Yet, over time, a pattern can be perceived in my actions and history of actions, and then not only might my commitment be clear, but a sense of what I am committed to and about and in what way may also be discovered.
I would agree.
As indicated above, for me it need not be mutual, nor acknowledged.
fmmo "If you don't have this drumstick, you won't be able to open the gl*** mountain. . ." from "The Seven Ravens" _Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm_
For Madmen Only f...@usa.net
Uh, [1] One Whom I Do Not Call Sweetie fmmo "If you don't have this drumstick, you won't be able to open the gl*** mountain. . ." from "The Seven Ravens" _Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm_
s ...@panix.com (Stef Maruch)
Wow. YES! This is great.
--
Stef ** rational/scientific/philosophical/mystical/magical/kitty ** s...@cat-and-dragon.com <*> http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** an agnostic stance is not based on disinterest. It is founded on a p***ionate recognition that *I do not know.* -- Stephen Batchelor, Buddha Without Beliefs
gayathri gayat...@world.std.com
:> words i take as intent or statement of future intentions.
:>actions through time i take as a demonstration of commitment.
I love this, thanks, songbird!
For Madmen Only <f...@usa.net> wrote: : For me, commitment is not something between me and another person, : really. It's an internal state of intentions and strength of feeling : about ways in which I hope and intend to feel and behave. When I act : in accordance with those hopes and intentions I am showing my : commitment. Since others will not explicitly know everything about my : hopes and intentions, the acts as "commitment" may not be immediately : clear to everyone. However, my actions through time demonstrate my : commitments, and they need never have been stated. A person may not : even be explicitly aware of my level of commitment involving zir.
Wow. I just want to publically state that I'm realy enjoying this thread. Squidboy and I go thru these arguments because my heart would like for him to "say" more often romantic, sweet things, while he very strongly believes that his way of being romantic and sweet is to honor his commitments and be true to his word. (I love that about him, but still I struggle with wanting to _hear_ it...) My head is cool with it
-- actions speak louder then words to my head, but my unreasonable emotional side still wants flowers and sweet talkin'.
Gayathri gayat...@world.std.com Calamari Club #002, WSMC #98 '88 FZR400 ('gurlzbike') '98 T595 Daytona, "huckleberry" "I could write you pages of the lustfulness of moving swiftly." - T. H. Lawrence
Trinker trinker_n...@yahoo.com
That would be because as an either/or proposition, he's right, but in an ideal world, it's nice to have both...
Trinker
"J. Jasper" jsjas...@home.com
For those who like both, at least. It's been my experience that people who don't often say romantic things don't "need" to hear them. Also, FWIW, I don't think Gayathri's emotional side is unreasonable for wanting flowers and sweet talkin'.
Trinker trinker_n...@yahoo.com
Well, yeah. But my point was, I don't think she'd be happy with *just* flowers and sweet talk, anyway.
I know a lot of "actions speak louder than words" folks, and I agree with them in principle, but I'm with Gayathri, I like *hearing* it, too.
Trinker
Jim Roberts jim...@bellatlantic.net
Actions mean more than words. I have heard many words in my life, but when your lover is there when you need them, it is all.
jimbat
Jim Roberts jim...@bellatlantic.net
[...] Hearing with the actions is better then the hearing.
jimbat
Teal t...@chromatic-dragonfly.com
I like it, too. It mirrors a lot of how I think about commitment. For me, there are two strands to commitment - there's the external sort, which is like a promise: I might make a commitment to somebody that I'll do X, and the explicit verbalisation of it is something I will take very seriously.
I generally don't make promises (worded explicitly as promises) unless I am very sure I can keep them. If I'm not *absolutely* certain, I'll not use the words "I promise..." or "I commit to..." - I'll say something like "I'll do my best..." or "It's my intent to...".
The other strand of commitment for me is internal, much as FMMO describes here. I have commitments to a great many things - they are somewhere between statements of things I feel strongly about, and promises I make to *myself* about how I wish to behave. For example, I have made a commitment to myself to deal ethically and honestly with people, and that both expresses my preferences and beliefs about how I want to interact with folk, and is a promise that I will remember and bear in mind if I'm weighing up multiple courses of action - which option(s) adhere more to the spirit this commitment? Those sorts of commitments I may choose to talk about, but mostly I do not. I have made specific commitments of this sort to many folk who never ever know about it... all they see is the results of the commitment - my actions toward them, as influenced by that commitment.
Teal
--
My website: http://tealspace.chromatic-dragonfly.com "Parting is all we know of heaven, And all we need of hell." - Emily Dickinson
ange ...@confluencia.remove.this.net (a n g e l e t)
Seeing the issue from another angle I would say that for me there is only one commitment. It is only with myself and includes to care for anyone at some level. I wonder if you mean something like that.
(hoping I expressed it in an understandable manner). In my case, as a result of this commitment-to-myself I may oc***ionaly state explicit "intents of commitment" to specific people.
Would you say that your commitment is a different one for different people or is it only one that is expressed in different ways to different people ?
Is your "internal state" applied selectively only on some people or does it apply to anyone in some significant degree ?
OTOH I wonder if you usually make explicit statements of commitment with yourselves and with your SO's.
I have heard people saying that says that in any relationship there is a "contract", expressed or tacit (I suppose the idea comes from some psychology branch). Do you agree with it ?
Moreover, if we say that commitment is mostly an "intent" (can it be otherwise?) and we know we aren't perfect so that intent will necessarily fail more o less often. How do you deal with those failures ?
(questions for any of you) And what is it ? (if it is not a secret :-) angelet.
Jim Roberts jim...@bellatlantic.net
a n g e l e t wrote: [...] It's either p***ion or comfort.
jimbat
Marc Wilson notme...@cleopatra.co.uk
|Wow. I just want to publically state that I'm realy enjoying this |thread. Squidboy and I go thru these arguments because my heart would |like for him to "say" more often romantic, sweet things, while he very |strongly believes that his way of being romantic and sweet is to honor |his commitments and be true to his word.
Oh, T-shirt. My sweetie is in your drawer so much. Are you sure you're not us? :) I hate it when she puts me on the spot and says: "Say something nice." It's like being a kid and told to sing, dance etc for relatives- it makes me want to just clam up.
--
Marc "Remember- two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do"
ladytw ...@aol.comnospam (Cat)
::looks very closely at Marc to make sure he isnt Wolf in disguise::: ; ) We finally got over this one......I got across the message that "I need to hear you say nice things about me, to me" and he acknowledged that "I didnt grow up hearing that sort of thing done, so I am not sure how to, which is no excuse but is a reason"....
We both agreed to try harder, he compliments a bit more often, and I make sure he knows how happy it makes me when he does, and then we're both happier. Of course I've complimented him all along, so he knows that it is something that is important to me.
Cat
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Sometimes the whole reason for the misbehavior is the punishment. --me
Marc Wilson notme...@cleopatra.co.uk
|> Marc Wilson notme...@cleopatra.co.uk writes: | |>I hate it when she puts me on the spot and says: "Say something nice." It's |>like being a kid and told to sing, dance etc for relatives- it makes me want |>to just clam up.
| |::looks very closely at Marc to make sure he isnt Wolf in disguise::: ; ) More a bear than a wolf. Sore head optional. ;) |We finally got over this one......I got across the message that "I need to hear |you say nice things about me, to me" and he acknowledged that "I didnt grow up |hearing that sort of thing done, so I am not sure how to, which is no excuse |but is a reason"....
|We both agreed to try harder, he compliments a bit more often, and I make sure |he knows how happy it makes me when he does, When I *do* come out with something, out of the blue, it gets big grins.
|and then we're both happier. Of course I've complimented him all along, so he knows that it is something that |is important to me.
I'm still a little uneasy with *too* much of it. I guess I'm always waiting for..... "Oh, by the way, I crashed the car."
--
Marc "Remember- two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do"
ladytw ...@aol.comnospam (Cat)
well of course it does! she feels good cause you said something nice AND because you remembered how much it means to her! Ya score twice!
Well yes, there is always a fine line between complimenting and "buttering up" : ) Cat
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Sometimes the whole reason for the misbehavior is the punishment. --me
For Madmen Only f...@usa.net
Wow. <blush> Thanks. I'm happy with it too. I think it says things much better than some comments I made here several years ago about "Commitment." I think I pretty much came across as being a "refuse to commit" person, because others seemed to be focussing on mutual, explicit, sometimes formal agreements as the defining characteristic of "Commitment." I didn't, and I don't do that and I said that. But I didn't say much of what I do do. I'm glad I had the opportunity to think on the topic again.
fmmo "If you don't have this drumstick, you won't be able to open the gl*** mountain. . ." from "The Seven Ravens" _Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm_
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