California Voucher Debate. Vote NO on Proposition 38!
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AbelMalc ...@webtv.net
In California, we have a referendum coming up in a couple of months, being pushed on us by a right winged extremist, Silicone Valley billionaire Tim Draper. He has not been meeting with people to discuss the merits of the issue, because it has no merits, he has instead been inundating us with a multi-million dollar barrage of false and misleading commercials, all over the airwaves in California's Television market, trying to push this very destructive idea upon an unsuspecting public. The Draper initiative will require the state to provide a $4,000 voucher to each and everyone of the 700,000 students who are already enrolled in California's private schools. In other words, before even one public school student can use even one of these vouchers, there will be a instant/m***ive suction of billions of dollars out from California's public school system, draining very badly needed resources from our already underfunded public schools and giving these vital resources to the already financially well off and exclusive private schools. This will lead to an increase in taxes, or cuts, in vital services, such as health care or public safety. The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers ***ociation
-- which opposes Prop. 38 -- states that Draper's measure "could cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year." Prop. 38 does nothing to improve our neighborhood public schools. Prop.
38 would abandon them by taking money from local public schools, making it harder to reduce cl*** sizes and to hire and train qualified teachers.
Prop. 38 creates voucher schools that do not require teacher credentials, academic standards or financial audits. The Draper initiative does not require voucher schools to inform parents of what their children are being taught, or to tell taxpayers how their money is spent.
The Republican party has all but abandoned California, writing it off, concluding that it is not winnable this November. Just when we thought that we had finally gotten rid of Republican Governor Pete Wilson, of California, who tried in the past to gut our educational system, he has come back to haunt us again, with his connections to Tim Draper.
Prop. 38 is just another way for the Republican party to operate by stealth, trying to destroy our public school system, a school system that is the most diverse in the entire nation. A diverse school system, such as California, has special needs. And these special needs are NOT going to be addressed in any way, shape or form by private schools. Private schools are accountable to nobody, they can & do discriminate against children for almost any reason, including gender, language, religion, family ability to pay, and academic or physical ability. For more information, go to these links: http://www.novouchers2000.com/h/faq.html & http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-sat.htm <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Anyone at the Democratic Convention whose speech you want to read? If so, go to this link: http://www.dems2000.com/PressRoom/00_speechtranscripts.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Educate yourself & go to these sites: http://www.democrats.org http://Gore_In_Context.tripod.com http://www.consortiumnews.com http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm http://www.american-politics.com/040199Guest.html http://www.gwbush.com http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3750/headlines.htm http://www.american-politics.com/20000316BushLoser.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "You can hear the klaxons all the way into the heartland. The GOP has entered full battle-stations mode, as the realization sinks in that they have just entrusted the fate of their party to an un-electable twit." <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Texas already has the nation's second highest percent of children who lack health insurance, this is second only to Arizona. But now, with this, another GWBush scam going under, there will be several thousand more children who will be going without health insurance.
There's progress for you, as Texas continues to climb up to the top of, of the worste of America record, from pollution to education, and every other quality of life indicator you want to look at. GWBush supporters, you should take credit. This is "comp***ionate conservatism" at it's best, which in GOP parlance, means 'comp***ion for conservatives only'.
Abel, from California ___________________________ From The Washington Post Bush Program Suffering Setbacks By Connie Mabin ***ociated Press Writer Saturday , August 26, 2000 AUSTIN, Texas ??“??“ A children's health insurance program created by the state and promoted by Gov. George W. Bush as a successful public-private partnership is getting out of the insurance business.
Texas Healthy Kids Corp., cited as a positive example by the Bush campaign as recently as Sunday, will stop insuring children on Sept. 15, said Durquia Guillen, director of operations. Campaigning for "prosperity with a purpose," Bush, the Republican presidential nominee, proposes more reliance on charities and private institutions to pick up where government leaves off. As president, Bush has said, he would dedicate $8 billion in tax incentives to encourage volunteerism and charity.
Vice President Al Gore's campaign accused Bush of not truly addressing children's health issues in Texas.
"Children's health insurance is a perfect example where Bush has been negligent but is telling the nation that he's wonderful," said Gore spokesman Doug Hattaway. "It certainly raises questions as to whether Governor Bush even knows or cares what's going on with children's health insurance in his own state." Faced with a lack of state and private money, increasing insurance rates and competition from a new government program, Texas Healthy Kids will start referring needy children to private health insurance companies or other public programs, Guillen said.
"We're in transition," Guillen said. "I don't know what's going to happen as we keep evaluating, but what we do know that there are a lot of affordable choices out there for families that were not always out there." To see the entire article, go to this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27624-2000Aug26.html?G... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> According to an August 14, Federal Court ruling, GWBush has failed to live up to an agreement to fix problems in Texas' Medicaid system. ?
This is free Federal money that Texas could very much make use of. But GWBush does not care about Texas. GWBush does not care about children.
All GWBush cares about is himself. GWBush is deliberately setting up a policy of blocking access to health care (and health care information) for Texas children, just so that he can cover up the extent and magnitude of the poverty that has plagued his handling of the Texas economy. In other words, he would rather smother and suffocate a baby, covering it up with his dirty blanket, so that nobody would see the baby, rather than have it become obvious how he is ruining the health of children in his State.
The Court has also ruled that Texas has failed to address the needs of about one million neglected and abused children. This is GWBush's way of covering up the extent and magnitude of the horrors of life in his Texas. And he does NOT give a rat's *** about the lives and health of children, all he is concerned with is making himself look good for the cameras.
This is outrageous! And it is even more outrageous that people out there actually support him. This brings to mind another "comp***ionate conservative" with a mustache, in the 1940's, he was at the heighth of his popularity when his supporters were throwing children up in the air, like cowchips, for target practice, to be shot at and killed. These are the same type of sick people that support GWBush too!
Here's what the Judge said, "The state inflated data about checkups children were supposed to receive, failed to provide adequate dental care, did not address transportation, or outreach problems, and inflated data regarding managed care." This constitutes FRAUD! GWBush is a FRAUD!
Here's what else the Judge wrote: "Chidren not receiving dental care crowd emergency rooms in hospitals, suffering from acute forms of dental disease that, while easily preventable, often lead to such health complications as serious oral infections, dehydration, fever, and malnourishment stemming from the inability to eat." And in case you think this case is politically motivated, think again.
This court case began, out of a law suit that was filed in 1993. This was before GWBush took office, since then, the situation in Texas has deteriorated, and deteriorated in flagrant violation of Federal law.
Do you still trust THIS world cl*** "comp***ionate" con-artist to "reform" the schools for our children?
Abel Malcolm
Alberto junkm...@moreira.mv.com
Oh, I see, parents of private schools are second cl*** citizens, eh ? Not entitled to the same benefits everyone else is ?
Everyone must mean everyone.
Alberto.
"Preferred User" joelaw...@email.com
Yeah well as a VICTIM of California Public Education I can ***ure you that it has been an ineffective mess since the 70's. I say gut the whole system as it is the only way to end the corruption and outright theft that is rampant within.
Just as an example. In 1985 a public school named Harbour View Elementary in Huntington Beach recieved 10 Apple II computers from donors. All 10 ended up 'disappearing' within 2 days. They were eventually found in teachers and administrators homes when one of the theives were caught they told on everyone else. Guess what? None of those theives were ever disciplined and our computer cl***es had no computers until 1987.
Personally, as a student, I witnessed theft, lying and cheating on standardized tests as a routine in public elementary and high schools. In 1987 I, and a whole cl***room of students were permitted to take answer sheets into the test room when the state tests were issued.
Public school is a fraud, so send YOUR kids there, mine will be properly educated in a private institution that I will investigate personally.
...
In California, we have a referendum coming up in a couple of months, being pushed on us by a right winged extremist, Silicone Valley billionaire Tim Draper. He has not been meeting with people to discuss the merits of the issue, because it has no merits, he has instead been inundating us with a multi-million dollar barrage of false and misleading commercials, all over the airwaves in California's Television market, trying to push this very destructive idea upon an unsuspecting public.
The Draper initiative will require the state to provide a $4,000 voucher to each and everyone of the 700,000 students who are already enrolled in California's private schools. In other words, before even one public school student can use even one of these vouchers, there will be a instant/m***ive suction of billions of dollars out from California's public school system, draining very badly needed resources from our already underfunded public schools and giving these vital resources to the already financially well off and exclusive private schools.
This will lead to an increase in taxes, or cuts, in vital services, such as health care or public safety. The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers ***ociation
-- which opposes Prop. 38 -- states that Draper's measure "could cost taxpayers billions of dollars a year." Prop. 38 does nothing to improve our neighborhood public schools. Prop.
38 would abandon them by taking money from local public schools, making it harder to reduce cl*** sizes and to hire and train qualified teachers.
Prop. 38 creates voucher schools that do not require teacher credentials, academic standards or financial audits. The Draper initiative does not require voucher schools to inform parents of what their children are being taught, or to tell taxpayers how their money is spent.
The Republican party has all but abandoned California, writing it off, concluding that it is not winnable this November. Just when we thought that we had finally gotten rid of Republican Governor Pete Wilson, of California, who tried in the past to gut our educational system, he has come back to haunt us again, with his connections to Tim Draper.
Prop. 38 is just another way for the Republican party to operate by stealth, trying to destroy our public school system, a school system that is the most diverse in the entire nation. A diverse school system, such as California, has special needs. And these special needs are NOT going to be addressed in any way, shape or form by private schools. Private schools are accountable to nobody, they can & do discriminate against children for almost any reason, including gender, language, religion, family ability to pay, and academic or physical ability.
For more information, go to these links: http://www.novouchers2000.com/h/faq.html & http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-sat.htm <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Anyone at the Democratic Convention whose speech you want to read? If so, go to this link: http://www.dems2000.com/PressRoom/00_speechtranscripts.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Educate yourself & go to these sites: http://www.democrats.org http://Gore_In_Context.tripod.com http://www.consortiumnews.com http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm http://www.american-politics.com/040199Guest.html http://www.gwbush.com http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3750/headlines.htm http://www.american-politics.com/20000316BushLoser.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "You can hear the klaxons all the way into the heartland. The GOP has entered full battle-stations mode, as the realization sinks in that they have just entrusted the fate of their party to an un-electable twit." <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Texas already has the nation's second highest percent of children who lack health insurance, this is second only to Arizona. But now, with this, another GWBush scam going under, there will be several thousand more children who will be going without health insurance.
There's progress for you, as Texas continues to climb up to the top of, of the worste of America record, from pollution to education, and every other quality of life indicator you want to look at. GWBush supporters, you should take credit. This is "comp***ionate conservatism" at it's best, which in GOP parlance, means 'comp***ion for conservatives only'.
Abel, from California ___________________________ From The Washington Post Bush Program Suffering Setbacks By Connie Mabin ***ociated Press Writer Saturday , August 26, 2000 AUSTIN, Texas -- A children's health insurance program created by the state and promoted by Gov. George W. Bush as a successful public-private partnership is getting out of the insurance business.
Texas Healthy Kids Corp., cited as a positive example by the Bush campaign as recently as Sunday, will stop insuring children on Sept. 15, said Durquia Guillen, director of operations. Campaigning for "prosperity with a purpose," Bush, the Republican presidential nominee, proposes more reliance on charities and private institutions to pick up where government leaves off. As president, Bush has said, he would dedicate $8 billion in tax incentives to encourage volunteerism and charity.
Vice President Al Gore's campaign accused Bush of not truly addressing children's health issues in Texas.
"Children's health insurance is a perfect example where Bush has been negligent but is telling the nation that he's wonderful," said Gore spokesman Doug Hattaway. "It certainly raises questions as to whether Governor Bush even knows or cares what's going on with children's health insurance in his own state." Faced with a lack of state and private money, increasing insurance rates and competition from a new government program, Texas Healthy Kids will start referring needy children to private health insurance companies or other public programs, Guillen said.
"We're in transition," Guillen said. "I don't know what's going to happen as we keep evaluating, but what we do know that there are a lot of affordable choices out there for families that were not always out there." To see the entire article, go to this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27624-2000Aug26.html?G... session_id_FutureTenseContentServer=0662f474113c19c7 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> According to an August 14, Federal Court ruling, GWBush has failed to live up to an agreement to fix problems in Texas' Medicaid system.
This is free Federal money that Texas could very much make use of. But GWBush does not care about Texas. GWBush does not care about children.
All GWBush cares about is himself. GWBush is deliberately setting up a policy of blocking access to health care (and health care information) for Texas children, just so that he can cover up the extent and magnitude of the poverty that has plagued his handling of the Texas economy. In other words, he would rather smother and suffocate a baby, covering it up with his dirty blanket, so that nobody would see the baby, rather than have it become obvious how he is ruining the health of children in his State.
The Court has also ruled that Texas has failed to address the needs of about one million neglected and abused children. This is GWBush's way of covering up the extent and magnitude of the horrors of life in his Texas. And he does NOT give a rat's *** about the lives and health of children, all he is concerned with is making himself look good for the cameras.
This is outrageous! And it is even more outrageous that people out there actually support him. This brings to mind another "comp***ionate conservative" with a mustache, in the 1940's, he was at the heighth of his popularity when his supporters were throwing children up in the air, like cowchips, for target practice, to be shot at and killed. These are the same type of sick people that support GWBush too!
Here's what the Judge said, "The state inflated data about checkups children were supposed to receive, failed to provide adequate dental care, did not address transportation, or outreach problems, and inflated data regarding managed care." This constitutes FRAUD! GWBush is a FRAUD!
Here's what else the Judge wrote: "Chidren not receiving dental care crowd emergency rooms in hospitals, suffering from acute forms of dental disease that, while easily preventable, often lead to such health complications as serious oral infections, dehydration, fever, and malnourishment stemming from the inability to eat." And in case you think this case is politically motivated, think again.
This court case began, out of a law suit that was filed in 1993. This was before GWBush took office, since then, the situation in Texas has deteriorated, and deteriorated in flagrant violation of Federal law.
Do you still ...
al cre...@syzygy-tech.com
Since public education is now costing over $6,000 per student, $4,000 sounds like a good deal. Opposition to Prop 38 is organized by CTA (Kalifornia Teachers ***oc.), many of whom are fearful (justifiably) that they will be considered unqualified to teach at a private institution.
"J.M. Ivler" iv...@basecamp1.netquest.net
Sure they are. They are entitled to choose to send their kids to the same public school that is paid for by the elderly taxpayer with no kids, the single non-parent, and all the other taxpayers that choose to support public education. OR they can choose to send their kids to private school for which they pay. Or they can choose to send their kids to educational enrichment centers, for which they will pay, or...
Hey, I CHOOSE to have private security patrol my home. I want a voucher because I no longer want the same police services you have to pay for.
Same thing.
Joachim_von_Ribbentrop kr...@leibenstrum.net
Since when does anyone CHOOSE to pay taxes????????
Or they can choose to send their kids to educational
"J.M. Ivler" iv...@basecamp1.netquest.net
Let's look at the details.
So, was the "theft" reported? If so why didn't the police department do something about it? Why didn't the school board (an elected body)? Seems to me that if there was a theft and it was known about, then someone else besides the education system dropped the ball.
Name names. I'm sure that there are any number of us who would like to see the school "punished" for doing that. I know that many public schools permit volunteers (generally parents) to participate in the monitoring of the tests just to ensure that things like this don't happen.
Since my child attends one of the top ten public elementary schools in the State (according to the Stanford 9s) and I have seen the quality of education that she is getting, I'm very glad I paid an extra 20% more for my home to live in this district. Since it is possible to determine where you want to live, and if you make education quality an important issue, then it is very easy to live where that is important to the community, there already is CHOICE. You just have to be willing to make education a priority when chooseing where to live.
"J.M. Ivler" iv...@basecamp1.netquest.net
The "average" is $6K? For the top 10% of all students (and that is what most private educational facilities take) the average cost to teach them is quite low. The real cost to teach kids is the cost to teach those that have disabilities, and the cost to teach those kids is well above the average.
But let's go beyond that for a moment. You feel it's okay for you to choose to educate your child outside of the system that we as a group decided to fund. That is YOUR choice. If you were saying that you wanted your share of what YOU contributed to the public school system back, that I could understand (I wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand it). But you are demanding that people that paid into the public education system fund your choice of a private education, and that isn't what they agreed to do when they paid taxes into the system.
Now, if your private educational facility had to take every child that applied to attend on a first come first served basis, regardless of their skills and abilities, that would be a much different story. But your private school has the right to establish standards that allow them to take the cream of the crop and leave the dregs to be educated by a public system that needs much more to educate those left behind than those selected.
As a parent I choose to pay a 20% permium to buy my home. Why? Because it is in the sixth best school district in the State of CA. That was CHOICE. The fact that some parents choose to buy in say, Santa Ana, because they got more for their money in terms of proprty or the size of the home, that is their choice. That they don't want to put their kids in a public school there is understandable. But they didn't choose to live where they wanted to based on having access to the better school system, and I did. I paid for it, it was my choice. They choose to not pay for education as a priority, they get what they paid for.
Here is a similar example. A friend of mine lives in aa gated community with a private security patrol. If something were to happen at his home the patrol would respond in about 1/10th the time as the local police (and the police station is about 10 blocks away). Now, for this security service my friend pays a fee to the ***ociation. Can my friend demand a voucher for the police services he has choosen to replace with a private service. If it's estimated that the taxpayer pays say, $4K/yr for police services, can my friend get a voucher of $4K/yr so he can pay for his private services? Do you support that?
hru ...@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
It is you who claim that there are no merits. Considering what public education has been doing, I consider it to be the first step to providing decent affordable education. The problems with the public school are not mainly underfunding, but almost everything else, including that they are publicly controlled.
If the public schools were given an addition huge outlay, it will do little good unless the whole system is changed, and it will be hard to find teachers who can teach what should be taught. As I have stated before, if you gave me unlimited power and unlimited resources, I could not provide a decent academic education to all those willing and able to obtain it in 20 years. Such educational facilities will NOT look like the present public schools, or most of the private one.
How exclusive do you think these private schools are? For those going to the snob schools, the parents' taxes are far in excess of the $4,000 dollars. The others, especially the academic ones, will expand once the funding is there, and not subject to the whim of legislators and the schools of education.
Of course it does. So? The public schools cost even more billions for worse than second rate education. It is unlikely that 10% of the public schools have a program which even poorly prepares those who should go to college to do so.
NOTHING can do what you are asking, as long as children are kept from progressing at their highly individualized rates.
And good teachers, not those now qualified, will need strong academic programs, and no "training" from the schools of education on how to dumb things down, even to the level of the present teachers.
Considering the present teacher credentials, this is all to the good. As to academic standards, the present ones are not only poor, but may have negative value. Are there other laws governing financial audits, not in the school legislation?
The Draper As far as the first, do you not think the parents will find this out? Remember, they decide which school. As to how the money is spent, if we want real education, we must not have a bunch of educationists and hyperegalitarians deciding the question. The teachers' ***ociations seem to be opposed to teaching real basic conceptual material early, for many reasons, one of which being that they cannot accept that children can learn what the teachers largely do not now know, and another being that they cannot see teaching basic structure without first having strong memorization; both hold.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Frank R fran...@my-deja.com
Your note is a bit nonsensical.
First you apparently claim that parents of private school kids are somehow "entitled" to being able to re-direct $4000 of tax money just because they have a kid in private school.
Next you claim "everyone must mean everyone," which would imply that the family next-door, which has NO kids in ANY school, would also be entitled to $4000 a year, to spend on a new car or whatever?
Frank Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Frank R fran...@my-deja.com
You choose what the government should spend taxes on every time you vote. If you don't like the system, you can choose to leave.
Frank Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Frank R fran...@my-deja.com
Ah, "you" can ***ure us. That makes all the difference.
Ten stolen computers means corruption and theft is rampant in the entire system?
And that somehow also proves that private schools won't mis-use the public funds they'll be receiving?
Frank Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Frank R fran...@my-deja.com
It's a lot easier to get a job at a California private school than a public school. You don't even need a teaching credential.
Frank Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
al cre...@syzygy-tech.com
Sorry, I'm a little off. It was approx. $5300 in 98-99 (CA Dept.
Education). I'm sure we can ***ume it will be a little higher in 99/00 and 00/01.
In an open market capacity in private education would expand.
Granted the cost of teaching those with disabilities is higher.
In a word yes. If the parent is given a voucher and the cost of the voucher is less than what the state would pay for educating the student, I not only would support it, I would encourage it.
I think people would "agree" that if vouchers could actually reduce the rate of taxation they wouldn't care where the child is educated.
So while you are in a position to send your child to a defacto private school you would deny that right to someone who happens to have less money than you? I'm sure the Santa Ana school district has an impressive record of reaching out to "the dregs".
In fact it happens all the time. A "village", "city", or other area may incorporate and opt out of other municpal services to develop its own.
Gary Schnabl badBad...@badBadger.com
You aren't that stupid to imply that being uncredentialed equates with being unqualified, or are you?
--
Gary Schnabl (Southwest) Detroit -- 2 miles NORTH of Canada
AbelMalc ...@webtv.net
Bad example. Here's a better one. How about if they canceled the public fire service in your city, and a private fire fighting company took over? This has happened in some cities. And guess what! In these cities, there have been instances of people whose house caught on fire, and they had not paid their fire bill, the private fire department then refuses to show up, and lets the persons' houses burn.
I grew up in Chicago, and there was a time, long ago, when that entire city burned. Let me tell you something, I do not want to see that happen again. Not in Chicago, not anywhere. There are some things that if you have any comp***ion towards your fellow man--or if you have any sense of self-preservation--or if you have any sense, period, you will just NOT ALLOW it to happen. Getting rid of a publicly financed fire department that serves EVERYONE is one of those things that you do NOT want to get rid of. A publicly financed schools system that serves EVERYONE is another one of those things that you do NOT want to get rid of either. Let's face it, private schools are under no obligation whatsoever to take in anybody that they do not want to take in. Private schools routinely discriminate against, and deny admission to this category of people: the under-educated, the learning disabled, the handicapped, minorities, immigrants, and the poor, as well as those who belong to the "wrong religion". And private schools do not have to give any reason, or even explain why they discriminate against individual children. Supporting exclusive private schools, at the expense of public schools, via vouchers, is the same as supporting an exclusive private fire department that is financed at the expense off the public fire department. Our children are too important to be toyed around with by dangerous ideological extremists. A. Malcolm <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Anyone at the Democratic Convention whose speech you want to read? If so, go to this link: http://www.dems2000.com/PressRoom/00_speechtranscripts.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Educate yourself & go to these sites: http://www.democrats.org http://Gore_In_Context.tripod.com http://www.consortiumnews.com http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm http://www.american-politics.com/040199Guest.html http://www.gwbush.com http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3750/headlines.htm http://www.american-politics.com/20000316BushLoser.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "You can hear the klaxons all the way into the heartland. The GOP has entered full battle-stations mode, as the realization sinks in that they have just entrusted the fate of their party to an un-electable twit." <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Texas already has the nation's second highest percent of children who lack health insurance, this is second only to Arizona. But now, with this, another GWBush scam going under, there will be several thousand more children who will be going without health insurance.
There's progress for you, as Texas continues to climb up to the top of, of the worste of America record, from pollution to education, and every other quality of life indicator you want to look at. GWBush supporters, you should take credit. This is "comp***ionate conservatism" at it's best, which in GOP parlance, means 'comp***ion for conservatives only'.
Abel, from California ___________________________ From The Washington Post Bush Program Suffering Setbacks By Connie Mabin ***ociated Press Writer Saturday , August 26, 2000 AUSTIN, Texas ??“??“ A children's health insurance program created by the state and promoted by Gov. George W. Bush as a successful public-private partnership is getting out of the insurance business.
Texas Healthy Kids Corp., cited as a positive example by the Bush campaign as recently as Sunday, will stop insuring children on Sept. 15, said Durquia Guillen, director of operations. Campaigning for "prosperity with a purpose," Bush, the Republican presidential nominee, proposes more reliance on charities and private institutions to pick up where government leaves off. As president, Bush has said, he would dedicate $8 billion in tax incentives to encourage volunteerism and charity.
Vice President Al Gore's campaign accused Bush of not truly addressing children's health issues in Texas.
"Children's health insurance is a perfect example where Bush has been negligent but is telling the nation that he's wonderful," said Gore spokesman Doug Hattaway. "It certainly raises questions as to whether Governor Bush even knows or cares what's going on with children's health insurance in his own state." Faced with a lack of state and private money, increasing insurance rates and competition from a new government program, Texas Healthy Kids will start referring needy children to private health insurance companies or other public programs, Guillen said.
"We're in transition," Guillen said. "I don't know what's going to happen as we keep evaluating, but what we do know that there are a lot of affordable choices out there for families that were not always out there." To see the entire article, go to this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27624-2000Aug26.html?G... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> According to an August 14, Federal Court ruling, GWBush has failed to live up to an agreement to fix problems in Texas' Medicaid system. ?
This is free Federal money that Texas could very much make use of. But GWBush does not care about Texas. GWBush does not care about children.
All GWBush cares about is himself. GWBush is deliberately setting up a policy of blocking access to health care (and health care information) for Texas children, just so that he can cover up the extent and magnitude of the poverty that has plagued his handling of the Texas economy. In other words, he would rather smother and suffocate a baby, covering it up with his dirty blanket, so that nobody would see the baby, rather than have it become obvious how he is ruining the health of children in his State.
The Court has also ruled that Texas has failed to address the needs of about one million neglected and abused children. This is GWBush's way of covering up the extent and magnitude of the horrors of life in his Texas. And he does NOT give a rat's *** about the lives and health of children, all he is concerned with is making himself look good for the cameras.
This is outrageous! And it is even more outrageous that people out there actually support him. This brings to mind another "comp***ionate conservative" with a mustache, in the 1940's, he was at the heighth of his popularity when his supporters were throwing children up in the air, like cowchips, for target practice, to be shot at and killed. These are the same type of sick people that support GWBush too!
Here's what the Judge said, "The state inflated data about checkups children were supposed to receive, failed to provide adequate dental care, did not address transportation, or outreach problems, and inflated data regarding managed care." This constitutes FRAUD! GWBush is a FRAUD!
Here's what else the Judge wrote: "Chidren not receiving dental care crowd emergency rooms in hospitals, suffering from acute forms of dental disease that, while easily preventable, often lead to such health complications as serious oral infections, dehydration, fever, and malnourishment stemming from the inability to eat." And in case you think this case is politically motivated, think again.
This court case began, out of a law suit that was filed in 1993. This was before GWBush took office, since then, the situation in Texas has deteriorated, and deteriorated in flagrant violation of Federal law.
Do you still trust THIS world cl*** "comp***ionate" con-artist to "reform" the schools for our children?
Abel Malcolm
Alberto junkm...@moreira.mv.com
I'm afraid I don't understand it. I pay at least as much tax as anyone, and I no longer have kids at home. My daughters pay tax too, and they're single and non-parents. And none of us gripes about paying taxes.
The choice of having a police force was made by the society you live within, and on whose nurturing your whole civilized life depends. Don't like the choices ? You have a vote. Are you outvoted ? Convince the rest of the people. Failed to ? Tough, welcome to real life.
In any case, I do not think I Mr. Citizen would be happy to pay for your private security patrol, neither will I agree that you should be entitled to a tax break for that. Your tax isn't payment for services due, but the rightful demand from society that you pitch in for the common good.
Alberto.
Alberto junkm...@moreira.mv.com
Do I have a kid in school ? If so, I should be entitled to the same voucher anyone else is - even if I'm a billionaire. Everyone must mean everyone.
Alberto.
hru ...@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
You can get a job in a public school with a teaching credential and little knowledge. Many, if not most, are in this position.
We have had many posting that the courses required for certification drives many good ones out. We do need to test the prospective teachers to see if they know their subjects, and the present methods fail on this point, and will continue to fail until those outside the schools and the present governments produce tests to the absolute standards needed. When 80% of the prospective high school teachers of mathematics, who have had the full calculus sequence and are still undergraduates, who took my probability course could not use their calculus on easy problems on a take-home examination, what does their credit in calculus mean?
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
"Susan Cohen" flav...@hers.com
Are you a fag?
...
As an example, Al Gore, and his supporters, will send their children to an exclusive private school, but they will not meddle with the U.S.
Constitution and expect the public to pay for it. George Bush, and his supporters, will send their children to an exclusive private school, but they will meddle with the U.S. Constitution and expect the public to pay for it.
Bad example. Here's a better one. How about if they canceled the public fire service in your city, and a private fire fighting company took over? This has happened in some cities. And guess what! In these cities, there have been instances of people whose house caught on fire, and they had not paid their fire bill, the private fire department then refuses to show up, and lets the persons' houses burn.
I grew up in Chicago, and there was a time, long ago, when that entire city burned. Let me tell you something, I do not want to see that happen again. Not in Chicago, not anywhere.
There are some things that if you have any comp***ion towards your fellow man--or if you have any sense of self-preservation--or if you have any sense, period, you will just NOT ALLOW it to happen. Getting rid of a publicly financed fire department that serves EVERYONE is one of those things that you do NOT want to get rid of. A publicly financed schools system that serves EVERYONE is another one of those things that you do NOT want to get rid of either.
Let's face it, private schools are under no obligation whatsoever to take in anybody that they do not want to take in. Private schools routinely discriminate against, and deny admission to this category of people: the under-educated, the learning disabled, the handicapped, minorities, immigrants, and the poor, as well as those who belong to the "wrong religion". And private schools do not have to give any reason, or even explain why they discriminate against individual children.
Supporting exclusive private schools, at the expense of public schools, via vouchers, is the same as supporting an exclusive private fire department that is financed at the expense off the public fire department. Our children are too important to be toyed around with by dangerous ideological extremists.
A. Malcolm <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Anyone at the Democratic Convention whose speech you want to read? If so, go to this link: http://www.dems2000.com/PressRoom/00_speechtranscripts.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Educate yourself & go to these sites: http://www.democrats.org http://Gore_In_Context.tripod.com http://www.consortiumnews.com http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm http://www.american-politics.com/040199Guest.html http://www.gwbush.com http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3750/headlines.htm http://www.american-politics.com/20000316BushLoser.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "You can hear the klaxons all the way into the heartland. The GOP has entered full battle-stations mode, as the realization sinks in that they have just entrusted the fate of their party to an un-electable twit." <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Texas already has the nation's second highest percent of children who lack health insurance, this is second only to Arizona. But now, with this, another GWBush scam going under, there will be several thousand more children who will be going without health insurance.
There's progress for you, as Texas continues to climb up to the top of, of the worste of America record, from pollution to education, and every other quality of life indicator you want to look at. GWBush supporters, you should take credit. This is "comp***ionate conservatism" at it's best, which in GOP parlance, means 'comp***ion for conservatives only'.
Abel, from California ___________________________ From The Washington Post Bush Program Suffering Setbacks By Connie Mabin ***ociated Press Writer Saturday , August 26, 2000 AUSTIN, Texas -- A children's health insurance program created by the state and promoted by Gov. George W. Bush as a successful public-private partnership is getting out of the insurance business.
Texas Healthy Kids Corp., cited as a positive example by the Bush campaign as recently as Sunday, will stop insuring children on Sept. 15, said Durquia Guillen, director of operations. Campaigning for "prosperity with a purpose," Bush, the Republican presidential nominee, proposes more reliance on charities and private institutions to pick up where government leaves off. As president, Bush has said, he would dedicate $8 billion in tax incentives to encourage volunteerism and charity.
Vice President Al Gore's campaign accused Bush of not truly addressing children's health issues in Texas.
"Children's health insurance is a perfect example where Bush has been negligent but is telling the nation that he's wonderful," said Gore spokesman Doug Hattaway. "It certainly raises questions as to whether Governor Bush even knows or cares what's going on with children's health insurance in his own state." Faced with a lack of state and private money, increasing insurance rates and competition from a new government program, Texas Healthy Kids will start referring needy children to private health insurance companies or other public programs, Guillen said.
"We're in transition," Guillen said. "I don't know what's going to happen as we keep evaluating, but what we do know that there are a lot of affordable choices out there for families that were not always out there." To see the entire article, go to this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27624-2000Aug26.html?G... session_id_FutureTenseContentServer=0662f474113c19c7 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> According to an August 14, Federal Court ruling, GWBush has failed to live up to an agreement to fix problems in Texas' Medicaid system.
This is free Federal money that Texas could very much make use of. But GWBush does not care about Texas. GWBush does not care about children.
All GWBush cares about is himself. GWBush is deliberately setting up a policy of blocking access to health care (and health care information) for Texas children, just so that he can cover up the extent and magnitude of the poverty that has plagued his handling of the Texas economy. In other words, he would rather smother and suffocate a baby, covering it up with his dirty blanket, so that nobody would see the baby, rather than have it become obvious how he is ruining the health of children in his State.
The Court has also ruled that Texas has failed to address the needs of about one million neglected and abused children. This is GWBush's way of covering up the extent and magnitude of the horrors of life in his Texas. And he does NOT give a rat's *** about the lives and health of children, all he is concerned with is making himself look good for the cameras.
This is outrageous! And it is even more outrageous that people out there actually support him. This brings to mind another "comp***ionate conservative" with a mustache, in the 1940's, he was at the heighth of his popularity when his supporters were throwing children up in the air, like cowchips, for target practice, to be shot at and killed. These are the same type of sick people that support GWBush too!
Here's what the Judge said, "The state inflated data about checkups children were supposed to receive, failed to provide adequate dental care, did not address transportation, or outreach problems, and inflated data regarding managed care." This constitutes FRAUD! GWBush is a FRAUD!
Here's what else the Judge wrote: "Chidren not receiving dental care crowd emergency rooms in hospitals, suffering from acute forms of dental disease that, while easily preventable, often lead to such health complications as serious oral infections, dehydration, fever, and malnourishment stemming from the inability to eat." And in case you think this case is politically motivated, think again.
This court case began, out of a law suit that was filed in 1993. This was before GWBush took office, since then, the situation in Texas has deteriorated, and deteriorated in flagrant violation of Federal law.
Do you still trust THIS world cl*** "comp***ionate" con-artist to "reform" the schools for our children?
Abel Malcolm
hru ...@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Private schools are not allowed to discriminate on racial or ethnic grounds, nor on religious grounds unless they are religious schools. In fact, private religious schools do accept children of other religions.
As for under-educated or learning disabled, any academic institution should not ever place a child in an environment in which that child's learning is adversely affected by the presence of other children who are incapable of learning that much, or who will be bored by the slowdown. This is what the public schools are doing by insisting on the use of age as a primary criterion. There are private schools which are designed to teach children of a given type of ability; the public schools should be handled similarly. It is not necessary to have the whole school this way, but just to have the appropriate cl***es. Those who want their children to learn academics will very often not even be accommodated in the slightest by social schools.
Our children are too important to have their mental development blocked by those who cannot understand the M***IVE differences in intellectual ability. I have well described the great bulk of what is happening in the present public schools. If there is a child who can go faster in a cl***, that child should be allowed and encouraged to go ASAP into a faster one, or even to "skip" some of the material. If there is a child who cannot keep up the pace, a slower pace is needed.
In some cases, this can also be done by changing the number of subjects taken, but in no case should their be any attempt to have children of different abilities make the same rate of progress.
It is the public schools which are run by ideological extremists, who place socialization ahead of learning.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Joachim_von_Ribbentrop kr...@leibenstrum.net
<snip> That's one of the most ludicrous statements that I have ever read.
Joni J Rathbun jrath...@orednet.org
Might be ludicrous, but I did just that a little more than a year ago.
lojbab loj...@lojban.org
In part because it has been so much lower for the last several years, that it will take a few years of higher expenditures to fix problems caused by being cheap in the past.
Why would this necessarily be true? The cost of entering the private education business is high (you need real estate and a building to set up a school, probably need modifications for kids if not building new, etc. New public schools cost in the tens of millions.) Existing private schools are almost entirely non-profit, so there is zero return on investment. In our economy, there is little reason to invest in private education merely because there may be a few more customers.
After all, in most suburban locales there are more people who want to attend private schools than there are openings, given the waiting lists at many institutions, yet those schools are not expanding nor are many new schools being built.
The for-profit private schools I know of typically cater to the very wealthy and charge $13K and up in tuition; a $4K voucher won't significantly expand the customer base for such schools.
And indeed around 1/8 of all kids are cl***ed as disabled. If the average spent on disabled kids is only twice that of regular kids, then simple algebra will tell you that the average spent on the regular kids is 4/5 of that $5400 or $4320/student.
But given that private school tuitions for high school average double the tuition for elementary kids, we can also ***ume that public school high school kids also cost twice as much as public school elementary kids. This leads to the average amount being spent on the lower grade non-special-ed kids in the public schools as $3240. If that is what it costs to educate such kids, the private schools get a windfall if they get $4000, and the public schools lose more than it costs.
Well it is unclear that even on an average basis this would be the case. But in fact the marginal cost of teaching one additional student is far less than the average cost. Think about it: if you add one student to a cl***, the added cost is an extra set of textbooks and a desk, plus a fractional increment in the total administrative time.
Only a few hundred dollars at most. That is all the school saves by losing a regular ed student through vouchers.
No, because there remains the church-state issue, as well as the likelihood that more privatized education would lead to a balkanization of our society, and would especially hurt those kids who are left behind in the public schools.
Given what he said it is NOT a private school de facto or otherwise. A public school system takes whatever kids live in the area, good or bad students, disciplined or undisciplined, special ed or not.
If so, then they incorporate under state law, and have to abide by those laws, and by the Constitution which forbids government promotion of religion, discrimination, etc. The village may not discriminate on who may live there if it is an incorporated area, and the schools cannot turn anyone away.
BTW, it is not the case (at least in most states) that a village can suddenly decide to incorporate and thereby withdraw from some other municipality - they would normally need the approval of the municipality they are withdrawing from.
--
lojbab loj...@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-
0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
elques ...@aol.commie (Samuel Waters)
All private school parents should show up with their child at the local school and register them for cl***es.
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