Extreme Sports as an Addiction
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Mike Vandeman mjva...@pacbell.net
Dear Friends: This is hard to believe, but this comes from a secular source.
Even the "new agers" out there know something is wrong with extreme sports behaviours, such as mountain biking. It is uncanny that this site almost sounds
-- "Christian". Take care.
A friend.
"* Emotional Lust - Extreme Sports: Most who routinely engage in "extreme sports" have a very hard time believing that they too are drug addicts.
Physically, they are addicted to the adrenaline rush that comes from the very real risks to their life posed by their "sports". Mentally, they are addicted to the thrill that comes from "living on the edge" of death. Emotionally, they are the most addicted to the need to "feel something". Risk sports generate the same raw intensity of emotion as in found in war. Every moment becomes precious.
Senses become ultra heightened.
The pulse of life is felt so thoroughly and vividly as to make every other moment dull by comparison. What "adrenaline" addicts must face is that if they are "bored" in "regular life", it is because they are boring. And if they are boring and unable to feel anything, why is that? The answer to this question is only the cure for extreme sports lust. The truth is that every moment - dull or extraordinary - is alive with possibilities that can be enjoyed without an adrenaline haze. Extreme sporters are usually too "busy" creating and recovering from injuries to notice this." You can view the whole site, here.
http://www.healpastlives.com/future/cure/crlust.htm === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Jason Ja...@winblows.net
\|||/ (o o) ,----ooO--(_)-------.
| Please | | don't feed the | | TROLL's ! | '--------------Ooo--' |__|__| || || ooO Ooo Jason
MattB somedud...@yahoo.com
<snip> That's great, but you mis-used that apostrophe on TROLL's. For the plural it should just be TROLLs.
Matt
"Coyoteboy" coyotebo...@hotmail.com
Gonna have to comment on this really I guess -
Not exactly true - most of the extreme sports people i know are extremely interesting people who have done fascinating things in their lives, visited amazing places and do interesting jobs, and are usually the life and soul of a party. As an adrenaline addict myself I DO get bored to tears with regular life but that has nothing to do with how interesting i am. A boring person is someone who isnt interesting to other people, by definition. Your endorphin threshold levels have nothing to do with how much you can interest other people, only how much you get interested in normal things.
So really its to do with the fact that the levels at which my endorphins make me happy have been raised by the sports i do. Much the same as becoming accustomed to working at heights (say... a window cleaner) - does the fact that he/she can work at heights and enjoys it mean that he is no longer an interesting person at ground level. Mikey, you quote some utter bullshit. I would thought even you wouldnt stoop to the level of posting someone elses crap without checking it made sense but your standards are slipping.
J
"Coyoteboy" coyotebo...@hotmail.com
"* Emotional Lust - Adventure Sex: Those who perhaps feel the most unworthy of all are those who treat their bodies like trash by having adventure sex." PMSL. Extremist Christian bollocks - i hate people who ***ume they are correct in their beliefs and all others are wrong. Mikey is dropping his arguments to the level of those used by religious nut cases - those who cant be argued with as they have a blind faith in an organised, man made 'religion'.
J
"Bill Sornson" sorniunflatteringclot...@nospam.askme.com
UNLESS those little circle thingies are "pie holes"? Then it would be Please Don't Feed the Troll's...PIE HOLES!
Poet Bill (PS: Don't ask where those /additional/ pie holes are!)
MattB somedud...@yahoo.com
Right, unless of course there are multiple TROLLs, in which case the proper way to refer to their collective pie holes would use TROLLs'.
HTH Matt
Jason Ja...@winblows.net
Hey now I just borrowed the anti-troll Matt. :) I blame the heat and humidity for that actually.
Jason
"S Curtiss" scurt...@cox.net
If I could die from laughing, you would be a murderer.
SC
"Ted" t...@hotmail.com
Hey there Mikey!!
Mike Vandeman mjva...@pacbell.net
.Gonna have to comment on this really I guess -
.>What "adrenaline" addicts must face is that if they .>are "bored" in "regular life", it is because they are boring.
.
.Not exactly true - most of the extreme sports people i know are .extremely interesting people who have done fascinating things in their .lives, visited amazing places and do interesting jobs, and are usually .the life and soul of a party.
Not in my experience, which is MUCH wider than yours. The ONLY person who posts anything interesting in your own newsgroup is ME. That's why MY posts always got more response than your own posts (until some people started filtering them out, which is itself a response). Your post is a perfect example of contentless propaganda. As usual, you give absolutely no detail.
Where I travel to attend scientific conferences and address the most important issues facing mankind and wildlife, mountain bikers travel only to mountain bike
-- an exercise that ensures that they will have next to ZERO real contact with people and the land. As any idiot can see from your BOOOORING helmetcam videos, mountain bikers speed through the terrain, rarely stop, and thus experience next to NOTHING of the land. You might as well see it on TV. It's the same thing.
At any of the conferences I attend, you not only wouldn't be "the life of the party", you would have nothing to contribute except LIES and RATIONALIZATION. AS USUAL.
As an adrenaline addict myself I DO get .bored to tears with regular life but that has nothing to do with how .interesting i am. A boring person is someone who isnt interesting to .other people, by definition. Your endorphin threshold levels have .nothing to do with how much you can interest other people, only how .much you get interested in normal things.
.
.So really its to do with the fact that the levels at which my .endorphins make me happy have been raised by the sports i do. Much the .same as becoming accustomed to working at heights (say... a window .cleaner) - does the fact that he/she can work at heights and enjoys it .mean that he is no longer an interesting person at ground level. Mikey, .you quote some utter bullshit. I would thought even you wouldnt stoop .to the level of posting someone elses crap without checking it made .sense but your standards are slipping.
.
.J === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Mike Vandeman mjva...@pacbell.net
.
.> You can view the whole site, here.
.> http://www.healpastlives.com/future/cure/crlust.htm .
."* Emotional Lust - Adventure Sex: Those who perhaps feel the most .unworthy of all are those who treat their bodies like trash by having .adventure sex." .
.PMSL. Extremist Christian bollocks - i hate people who ***ume they are .correct in their beliefs and all others are wrong. Mikey is dropping .his arguments to the level of those used by religious nut cases - those .who cant be argued with as they have a blind faith in an organised, man .made 'religion'.
On the contrary, I have 15 years' experience with addicts in Synanon, and the behaviour of mountain bikers fits the model perfectly: risking body, life, and important relationships to pursue pointless thrills that have no real value.
That is rightfully called "addiction".
.J === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
"Coyoteboy" coyotebo...@hotmail.com
a) I never said i wasnt addicted to the adrenalin rush, and most extreme sports people would agree they are addicted (contrary to the websites claim)- next point...
b) It may seem pointless to you but it is what makes us happy and doesnt hurt other people or cause significant impact or damage to our daily lives. Who are you to put value on someone elses activities?
Extreme sports, as with any sport such as soccer or baseball, are simply an activity that make people happy and dont cause anyone else any pain or suffering to any other person. I could argue that the drinking culture and yobbish behaviour that goes with soccer fans is clearly a case where the sport has negative value, but extreme sports generally hurt nobody except those who choose to be put in that situation.
I dont know any extreme sports person who 'risks important relationships' by persuing their sport? If your relationship is weak enough to be damaged by someone wanting to do a sport id suggest it isnt worth having anyway. I know of far more people who's relationships have fallen apart because one or both of the partners are "bloody boring" and sit and watch tv, the partners of whome would much rather they had an interesting other half.
J
"Coyoteboy" coyotebo...@hotmail.com
I doubt that. What do you use to qualify that claim?
No, you mistake "annoying" for "interesting", thats the only reason you get responses.
The reason your posts get more responses than mine are because you post controversial crap, and i post specific questions that people either can or cant answer and (having a lot of experience and knowledge from the biking world, most of my questions are going to be tough for most people to answer). The other point is that my posts often answer questions and therefore require no more replies. Unlike yours - that often spark discussion because they contain rediculous claims!
What detail would you like? I dont waste my time on details with someone who will dismiss them off-hand.
Actually I'm a research scientist in the field of engineering, based in the UK, working on some pretty important things - of course you may not consider them interesting but thats another matter - i dont consider yours interesting. I too travel to scientific conferences, regularly have meetings with people from other areas within acedemia.
I also work as an Expedition Leader for the local Outdoor Ed and Volunteer Youth workers. I train groups from 14 years upwards.
I mountain bike, i kitesurf, i rock climb(not as much as i used to), i do a fair amount of hiking in the hills. I have a long term relationship with a very nice girlfriend and great contact with many friends and family on a regular basis.
Oh, i also have a fair amount of contact within industry through a few well placed friends and events.
What, you say you go to environmental conferences? Well, arent you the well rounded individual in contact with the real world!
No, you see they only show you the bits where they speed through the land - because when they stop to look around its not exactly interesting for other mountainbikers to watch - its one of those things that you have to do to understand and as mtbers we all do it and all understand that we only need to see the action. You see we KNOW that they will have stopped and enjoyed the surrounding beauty, we dont need it spelling out.
At the parties you attend i'd be the third and final visitor to attend and I'd turn round and walk back out again. You are the one with the stunted view of reality, you really should get out more and see the real world and the variation of people in it, instead of trying to stifel it.
J
"Charlie Maxwell" nos...@columbus.rr.com
Your posts are purely opinionated drivel that we use for entertainment.
There is no solid scientific content in any of your posts.
Drivel on mike, Charlie
"Just zis Guy, you know?" u...@ftc.gov
I submit that on or about Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:13:30 GMT, the person known to the court as Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> made a statement (<anrjf1ldiao1tdcff8vh7remkuu6pb4...@4ax.com> in Your Honour's bundle) to the following effect: Which, of course, has nothing to do with garden-variety mountain biking. If only there were a simple cure for Mike's addiction to spamming!
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
"Dave Mennenoh" d...@blurredistinction.com.invalid
I guess Mikey is the retarded chimp in the cage - the one who will throw other chimp's shit because he's not smart enough to find his own. But I guess we've known that for years.
--
Dave -
www.blurredistinction.com/director www.macromedia.com/go/team
"S Curtiss" scurt...@cox.net
Wow.... your ego had a bowl of Wheaties this morning....
"The most important issues facing mankind..."?
A mountain bike? A non-polluting human powered machine on a trail is the most important issue facing mankind?
Dammit, MV... Do you read the news at all?
Mike Vandeman mjva...@pacbell.net
.
.> Not in my experience, which is MUCH wider than yours.
.
.I doubt that. What do you use to qualify that claim?
11 years of reading mountain biking newsgroups & listservs.
.> The ONLY person who posts .> anything interesting in your own newsgroup is ME.
.
.No, you mistake "annoying" for "interesting", thats the only reason you .get responses.
.
.>That's why MY posts always got .> more response than your own posts (until some people started filtering them out, .> which is itself a response). Your post is a perfect example of contentless .> propaganda. As usual, you give absolutely no detail.
.
.The reason your posts get more responses than mine are because you post .controversial crap, and i post specific questions that people either .can or cant answer and (having a lot of experience and knowledge from .the biking world, most of my questions are going to be tough for most .people to answer). The other point is that my posts often answer .questions and therefore require no more replies. Unlike yours - that .often spark discussion because they contain rediculous claims!
.
.What detail would you like? I dont waste my time on details with .someone who will dismiss them off-hand.
Enough to know what the heck you are talking about.
.> Where I travel to attend scientific conferences and address the most important .> issues facing mankind and wildlife, mountain bikers travel only to mountain bike .> -- an exercise that ensures that they will have next to ZERO real contact with .> people and the land.
.
.Actually I'm a research scientist in the field of engineering, based in .the UK, working on some pretty important things - of course you may not .consider them interesting but thats another matter - i dont consider .yours interesting. I too travel to scientific conferences, regularly .have meetings with people from other areas within acedemia.
.I also work as an Expedition Leader for the local Outdoor Ed and .Volunteer Youth workers. I train groups from 14 years upwards.
.I mountain bike, i kitesurf, i rock climb(not as much as i used to), i .do a fair amount of hiking in the hills. I have a long term .relationship with a very nice girlfriend and great contact with many .friends and family on a regular basis.
.Oh, i also have a fair amount of contact within industry through a few .well placed friends and events.
Then why have you absolutely NOTHING interesting to say here?
.What, you say you go to environmental conferences? Well, arent you the .well rounded individual in contact with the real world!
At least I am doing something worthwhile.
.> As any idiot can see from your BOOOORING helmetcam videos, .> mountain bikers speed through the terrain, rarely stop, and thus experience next .> to NOTHING of the land. You might as well see it on TV. It's the same thing.
.
.No, you see they only show you the bits where they speed through the .land - because when they stop to look around its not exactly .interesting for other mountainbikers to watch - its one of those things .that you have to do to understand and as mtbers we all do it and all .understand that we only need to see the action. You see we KNOW that .they will have stopped and enjoyed the surrounding beauty, we dont need .it spelling out.
Exactly my point: they hardly ever stop! You can easily see that from the video, which is continuous.
.> At any of the conferences I attend, you not only wouldn't be "the life of the .> party", you would have nothing to contribute except LIES and RATIONALIZATION. AS .> USUAL.
.
.At the parties you attend i'd be the third and final visitor to attend .and I'd turn round and walk back out again. You are the one with the .stunted view of reality, you really should get out more and see the .real world and the variation of people in it, instead of trying to .stifel it.
.
.J Once again, you proved that you have absolutely NOTHING interesting to say.
Nothing but BS.
=== I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Mike Vandeman mjva...@pacbell.net
.
....
.> On 10 Aug 2005 08:25:20 -0700, "Coyoteboy" <coyotebo...@hotmail.com> .> .
.> .> Not in my experience, which is MUCH wider than yours. The ONLY person who .> posts .> anything interesting in your own newsgroup is ME. That's why MY posts .> always got .> more response than your own posts (until some people started filtering .> them out, .> which is itself a response). Your post is a perfect example of contentless .> propaganda. As usual, you give absolutely no detail.
.> .Your posts are purely opinionated drivel that we use for entertainment.
.There is no solid scientific content in any of your posts.
You wouldn't know "solid scientific content" if it hit you in the face. My posts contain the ONLY scientific content in alt.mountain-bike.
.Drivel on mike, .Charlie .
.> .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .
=== I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Mike Vandeman mjva...@pacbell.net
.
.> On the contrary, I have 15 years' experience with addicts in Synanon, and the .> behaviour of mountain bikers fits the model perfectly: risking body, life, and .> important relationships to pursue pointless thrills that have no real value.
.> That is rightfully called "addiction".
.
.a) I never said i wasnt addicted to the adrenalin rush, and most .extreme sports people would agree they are addicted (contrary to the .websites claim)- next point...
.
.b) It may seem pointless to you but it is what makes us happy and .doesnt hurt other people or cause significant impact or damage to our .daily lives.
That is a LIE. For just ONE example: On September 23, 2000, a mountain bike race was held in Briones Regional Park, near Walnut Creek, California (see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/ebrpd16). A 37-year-old man crashed and ended up in a coma for a long time. I asked the Park District and the race sponsor what eventually happened to him, but they refused to tell me. I finally found out yesterday: he ended up brain damaged, and divorced.
Both the East Bay Regional Park District and the race organizer deny responsibility, and refuse to talk about this incident, and the utter irresponsibility of allowing mountain biking RACES in wildlife habitat, in public parks, and in places not suited and designed for racing. Serious injuries and deaths from this destructive sport have become an almost weekly occurrence.
Meanwhile, the International Mountain Bicycling ***ociation continues to lobby hard in Congress for mountain biking, for allowing bikes in Wilderness, and for promoting mountain biking among CHILDREN (they would like the entire nation to celebrate a "Take a Kid Mountain Biking Day")!
It's high time that we put a halt to this abuse and sacrifice of our natural areas and of our young people. Mountain biking accelerates erosion, creates V-shaped ruts in trails, kills small animals and plants on and next to the trail, and drives wildlife and other trail users off the trails and out of the parks. What's good about THAT???
Who are you to put value on someone elses activities?
.
.Extreme sports, as with any sport such as soccer or baseball, are .simply an activity that make people happy and dont cause anyone else .any pain or suffering to any other person.
Tell that to the snake I found crushed by mountain bike tires. Or the people driven off the trails and out of the parks due to mountain biking.
I could argue that the .drinking culture and yobbish behaviour that goes with soccer fans is .clearly a case where the sport has negative value, but extreme sports .generally hurt nobody except those who choose to be put in that .situation.
.
.I dont know any extreme sports person who 'risks important .relationships' by persuing their sport?
See above.
If your relationship is weak .enough to be damaged by someone wanting to do a sport id suggest it .isnt worth having anyway. I know of far more people who's relationships .have fallen apart because one or both of the partners are "bloody .boring" and sit and watch tv, the partners of whome would much rather .they had an interesting other half.
.
.J === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
"Just zis Guy, you know?" u...@ftc.gov
I submit that on or about Sat, 13 Aug 2005 19:25:12 GMT, the person known to the court as Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> made a statement (<p4isf1l53audi9r0okvf42cnb0bdl1s...@4ax.com> in Your Honour's bundle) to the following effect: Your example exhibits (as ever) a logical fallacy. Several reports have been posted here recently of hikers who have died hiking - there is no relevant difference between the object of your petty bigotry and the activity which you pursue.
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
"Sohn" s...@usol.com
<snip> Synanon was exposed years ago as a cult.
http://www.ptreyeslight.com/columns/sparsely/sparsely1126_03.html This is one person's experience with Synanon http://www.rickross.com/reference/synanon/synanon2.html It's great that you're trying to find a group to cure your condition(s). However, you would have a better chance of overcoming your mental health problems by seeking legitimate health care professionals.
"MTBlood" M_Truebloodnos...@comcast.net
Damn Mikey...that makes you an honorary biker...having all the knowledge and all...maybe I'll just ask you all my future tech questions...
Mike Vandeman mjva...@pacbell.net
.I submit that on or about Sat, 13 Aug 2005 19:25:12 GMT, the person .known to the court as Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> made a .statement (<p4isf1l53audi9r0okvf42cnb0bdl1s...@4ax.com> in Your .Honour's bundle) to the following effect: .
.>.b) It may seem pointless to you but it is what makes us happy and .>.doesnt hurt other people or cause significant impact or damage to our .>.daily lives.
.
.>That is a LIE. For just ONE example: .
.Your example exhibits (as ever) a logical fallacy. Several reports .have been posted here recently of hikers who have died hiking - there .is no relevant difference between the object of your petty bigotry and .the activity which you pursue.
.
.Guy As usual, you missed the point. "doesnt hurt other people or cause significant impact or damage to our daily lives" is a lie.
=== I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
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