Biggest Loser Observation
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"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
http://www.nbc.com/The_Biggest_Loser/contestants/jeff/ Watched the 9th episode last night. Jeff (the Doc) has lost an astounding 100 lbs in 9 weeks. This is a tad over 11lbs per week or 1.58 lbs per day.
This basically amounts to 5700 Cal. deficit per day. The first week or two I can see the weightloss being mostly water, but this large amount of loss is simply incredible.
http://www.nbc.com/The_Biggest_Loser/contestants/matt/ And this rate of loss is not an anomaly. Matt has lost 85 lbs in 8 weeks, or 10.62 lbs per week. For the 9th episode he won immunity. He gained 12 lbs that he claims is part of a strategy. Perhaps, to gain extra strength for upcoming challenges, since he was the person with the best % loss as of last week.
Any of the people that lose 4 or 5 lbs in a week walk around with long faces, when in fact they are losing twice the recommended weightloss for an average Joe.
It seems they are in reasonably good health. What is stopping their hair from falling out? If it is true that a calorie deficit of any kind will consume some muscle, how can a person (like Matt) look like he is improving on a 5000+ Cal. deficit? You would figure that the more severe the diet, the more severe the muscle loss despite exercise. Since weight training is suppose to actually break down muscle tissue while doing the work, wouldn't the muscle loss be even greater, given the severe calorie deficit?
This is just an observation, and I don't know what type of supplements/chemical help they are using. Whenever I see a clip of Matt eating, he's usually chowing on a steak. Perhaps losing a lot of muscle m*** during severe weightloss is not as bad as claimed, if there is adequate dietary protein and exercise. (Not that I think losing 10+ lbs per week is good for you.) I have heard and read claims that when not exercising while losing weight, a crash diet would cause half of the loss by muscle m*** alone. I don't believe everything I read, but I do believe that the body will decide to keep muscle if it seems that it is needed during day to day activities. If the body figures the muscles are not being used all that much, it can be sacrificed to make up part of the calorie loss. In the case of not exercising, I can see that even a small caloric deficit would cause muscle to be lost. I don't think a calorie deficit of, say, 500 Cal per day would cause much or any muscle to be lost as long as adequate dietary protein and sufficient exercise are maintained.
(Here's a snippet from an article claiming that 1/2 of weightloss in crash diets is muscle.) " The #1 reason why dieting alone will not lead to a HEALTHY weight for life is that when we diet without exercising (specifically, resistance exercise) UP TO 50% OF THE WEIGHT WE LOSE WILL BE MUSCLE M***. Now, this will vary from person to person based on genetics, age, sex, hormone levels, etc. but an average is that 1/2 of the weight we lose on that crash diet is from muscle loss." http://ezinearticles.com/?New-Year-Resolution---Part-3&id=86249
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Tom + Pat Gallant tpgall...@shaw.ca
"Roger Zoul" rogerzo...@hotmail.com
Some people never have problems with hair falling out, some do, no matter the rate of loss.
:> If it is true that a calorie deficit of any :> kind will consume some muscle, how can a person (like Matt) look :> like he is improving on a 5000+ Cal. deficit?
It's all relative...when you liberate all that fat, you liberate the person who was in the fat suit. Power to weight ratio can increase markedly, once you drop the pounds. Matt could improve relative to where he was, but possibly not relative to where he might have been had he not dropped so quickly. I think for someone to lose so quickly very likely means that good habits won't exist into the long term...but as always, that is a YMMV kind of thing and who knows, they might stick with Matt. I personally would not bet on it..
You would figure that :> the more severe the diet, the more severe the muscle loss despite :> exercise. Since weight training is suppose to actually break down :> muscle tissue while doing the work, wouldn't the muscle loss be even :> greater, given the severe calorie deficit?
Sure...but, you still have to do both calculations to see it and on this show that impossible for the same person. You just have to accept what you get and use theory or pervious studies for the rest.
:> :> This is just an observation, and I don't know what type of :> supplements/chemical help they are using. Whenever I see a clip of :> Matt eating, he's usually chowing on a steak. Perhaps losing a lot :> of muscle m*** during severe weightloss is not as bad as claimed, if :> there is adequate dietary protein and exercise. (Not that I think :> losing 10+ lbs per week is good for you.) It depends (IMO)...if you start out a big hefty beast, you end up a less hefty beast (ie, normal). If you start out a weakling, you might end up dead or, at best, skinny but not robust.
:> :> I have heard and read claims that when not exercising while losing :> weight, a crash diet would cause half of the loss by muscle m*** :> alone. I don't believe everything I read, but I do believe that the :> body will decide to keep muscle if it seems that it is needed during :> day to day activities. If the body figures the muscles are not being :> used all that much, it can be sacrificed to make up part of the :> calorie loss.
Well, that, too, depends....if you're in a huge calorie deficit and doing shitloads of cardio, your body might decide it doesn't need all that weight to support doing shitloads of cardio, so it gives up muscle. If you're lifting hard and heavy, your body might decide it needs that muscle and if you feed it right, it might keep it (or most of it). If you're doing some combination of both while maintaining a huge calorie deficit, you land somewhere and the overall impact depends a lot, I think, on who you are and where you start. A big hefty beast who eats steak will likely hold more muscle than a little bitty frail flower who eats celery.
In the case of not exercising, I can see that even a :> small caloric deficit would cause muscle to be lost. I don't think a :> calorie deficit of, say, 500 Cal per day would cause much or any :> muscle to be lost as long as adequate dietary protein and sufficient :> exercise are maintained.
Well, you know...we all have our thoughts...
:> :> (Here's a snippet from an article claiming that 1/2 of weightloss in :> crash diets is muscle.) :> :> " The #1 reason why dieting alone will not lead to a HEALTHY weight :> for life is that when we diet without exercising (specifically, :> resistance exercise) UP TO 50% OF THE WEIGHT WE LOSE WILL BE MUSCLE :> M***. Now, this will vary from person to person based on genetics, :> age, sex, hormone levels, etc. but an average is that 1/2 of the :> weight we lose on that crash diet is from muscle loss." :> http://ezinearticles.com/?New-Year-Resolution---Part-3&id=86249 So, a big hefty beast will lean toward the low end in terms of muscle loss.
"Laureen" TheBenne...@olypen.com
Liberate? That's an under statement :) I'm frickin FREE!!!!!!!
BTW Roger. You're a very fart smeller, Uh...... I mean VERY SMART FELLER!!!!
I lost 87 pounds in 12 weeks and I did lose my hair but mine is a different story. Funny about hair though. When it falls from the follicle and doesnt break offat the hairline the new hair comes in with a feathered pointed sof tip. I recently got my hair done. I'm spolied and have one girl cut it and one color it. both of them said my hair was absolutely as soft as baby hair. If these people do lose their hair, it wont be for a while. My hair fell out at about 3 months and in large patches. I looked like I was on a bit of chemo and it stopped around the 5 month mark.
Laureen
"Joe the Aroma" schizam2...@yahoo.com
As a matter of fact, a certain amount of weight loss in a given week will inevitably be muscle m***, unless your diet is protein sparing.
Maybe they removed their brains.
"Cubit" n...@not.not
For most losing weight the key side of the calorie equation is reducing intake. On The Biggest Loser they use extreme exercise to burn up calories at what must be an amazing rate. This goes way beyond the kind of exercise some dieters do. IMHO an extreme extreme exercise program is dangerous.
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"Roger Zoul" rogerzo...@hotmail.com
:) funny...you takin' a dig at my numerous typos, Laureen, honey? As someone else first said, typos are a feature, not a bug!
:> :> I lost 87 pounds in 12 weeks and I did lose my hair but mine is a :> different story. Funny about hair though. When it falls from the :> follicle and doesnt break offat the hairline the new hair comes in :> with a feathered pointed sof tip. I recently got my hair done. I'm :> spolied and have one girl cut it and one color it. both of them said :> my hair was absolutely as soft as baby hair. If these people do lose :> their hair, it wont be for a while. My hair fell out at about 3 :> months and in large patches. I looked like I was on a bit of chemo :> and it stopped :> around the 5 month mark.
:> Laureen :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :>> It's all relative...when you liberate all that fat, you liberate :>> the person who was in the fat suit.
"Laureen" TheBenne...@olypen.com
Aw!! Rogie, Im not making fun of you. I love the fart smeller smart feller thingie mabobbie!You're quite intelligant and I was being serious and funny!!!!
L
"Laureen" TheBenne...@olypen.com
I often wondered about that. I mean what are there electrolytes like with all that sweating? We never see it all, I'm sure there has been some low blood sugar episodes and certainly someone has p***ed out.
Some of the stuff they go through almost seems humanly impossible. The one that got me was the stair competition a couple weeks back. Killer!
Laureen
"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
I knew a woman that went on a crash diet and lost some hair. She didn't exercise before or after, and the weight was lost by doing low fat. After losing 80 lbs and leveling out at 190 lbs body weight, her legs looked more like arms. Of course she didn't exercise at all. She has since grown back her hair and the 80 lbs too. I wonder what her legs would have looked like if she continued down to 130 lbs.
I suppose that dropping 100 lbs would allow you to jump higher and run further without any added strength.
At 5' 10" he looks to have a body type that could easily be a solid 200 lbs if not more.
I've been looking around the net for any real life examples with pics that show the difference between weightloss by dieting alone vs dieting with exercise. In the past, most weight loss efforts would have been by eating high carb which was thought to be protein sparing. Perhaps a higher protein diet along with exercise may be more beneficial than previously thought.
Yes, that makes sense.
That seems predictable given the extremes of the examples, but over all correct.
It's difficult to know how much muscle would be lost while dieting. I'm more certain though, that the loss will be minimal, to the point of not being concerned, if enough protein and resistance exercise are also present.
loss.
And Matt certainly is a hefty beast.
Thanks for your input Rogie. :o)
"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
I think they are asked to do 4 to 6 hours per day of activity. I would think that the show only presents the anguish and pain highlights, as if they were working out at a high pace for hours and hours. But their weightloss is astounding, so I don't think there goofing off. Losing over 10 lbs per week is extreme. I wonder what would happen to the show if one of them were to have a heart attack. I suppose there wouldn't be a question of who to eliminate for that week. :o)
"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
Hi Laureen. How's your weightloss coming along? Last I remember, you were on track to exceed your Doctor's expectations for loss. And you're doing ok healthwise as well?
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"Laureen" TheBenne...@olypen.com
Hi Tom, I feel great! I am 9 months and one week post op and have alomost lost half myself. I have gone from 410 to 215 pounds for a 185 pound loss now. I play by the rules and walk walk walk. I was suppose to be down 44% of my total body weight which would have been around 234 by the first year. I exceeded that and then some by the 8 month period.
I should be at goal by summer. The weightloss has slowed but the metamorphical body changes are occuring quite rapidly while the weight loss slows. Amazing. I dont recognize me! People dont recognize.
Larrys Dad died a few weeks ago and 2 of his out of town relatives asked him "Where's your wife?". I have some hilarious stories from people who have known me since I was a little girl. Strange thing about living in a small community............ You know everyone but don't always see them on a regualr basis and I will always be the fat person who got thinner and healthier but if I moved to another place no one would know the difference!
Laureen
"Laureen" TheBenne...@olypen.com
I was disappointed in the guy who won immunity last night from jumping the bar. He went and pigged out and gained 12 lbs just because he knew he wouldn't get voted off or be one of the two below the yellow line. I think that dude has some real issues. He'll be fat again as soon as he leaves the show. I think he really struggles with his food addiction.
He was also the one having midnight refrigerator raids earlier in the show too. I was really rooting for him until I saw him undo his hard work ON PURPOSE! I really would like to see Doc win it now and see his transformation.
Laureen
"Roger Zoul" rogerzo...@hotmail.com
Great news, Laureen!
:> Hi Tom, I feel great! I am 9 months and one week post op and have :> alomost lost half myself. I have gone from 410 to 215 pounds for a :> 185 pound loss now. I play by the rules and walk walk walk. I was :> suppose :> to be down 44% of my total body weight which would have been around :> 234 :> by the first year. I exceeded that and then some by the 8 month :> period.
:> I should be at goal by summer. The weightloss has slowed but the :> metamorphical body changes are occuring quite rapidly while the :> weight :> loss slows. Amazing. I dont recognize me! People dont recognize.
:> Larrys Dad died a few weeks ago and 2 of his out of town relatives :> asked him "Where's your wife?". I have some hilarious stories from :> people who have known me since I was a little girl. Strange thing :> about living in a small community............ You know everyone but :> don't :> always see them on a regualr basis and I will always be the fat :> person :> who got thinner and healthier but if I moved to another place no one :> would know the difference!
:> Laureen :> :> :> :> :> :>> Hi Laureen. How's your weightloss coming along? Last I remember, :>> you were on track to exceed your Doctor's expectations for loss.
:>> And you're doing ok healthwise as well?
:>> :>> ...
:>> > Aw!! Rogie, Im not making fun of you. I love the fart smeller :>> > smart feller thingie mabobbie!You're quite intelligant and I was :>> > being :>> > serious and funny!!!!
:>> > L :>> > :>> > :>> > :>> > Roger Zoul wrote: :>> > > Laureen <TheBenne...@olypen.com> wrote: :>> > > :> Liberate? That's an under statement :) I'm frickin :>> > > :> FREE!!!!!!!
:>> > > :> BTW Roger. You're a very fart smeller, Uh...... I mean VERY :>> > > :> SMART FELLER!!!!
:>> > > :>> > > :) :>> > > :>> > > funny...you takin' a dig at my numerous typos, Laureen, honey?
:>> > > As :>> someone :>> > > else first said, typos are a feature, not a bug!
:>> > > :>> > > :> :>> > > :> I lost 87 pounds in 12 weeks and I did lose my hair but mine :>> > > :> is a different story. Funny about hair though. When it falls :>> > > :> from the follicle and doesnt break offat the hairline the :>> > > :> new hair comes in with a feathered pointed sof tip. I :>> > > :> recently got my hair done. I'm spolied and have one girl cut :>> > > :> it and one color it. both of them said my hair was :>> > > :> absolutely as soft as baby hair. If these people do lose :>> > > :> their hair, it wont be for a while. My hair fell out at :>> > > :> about 3 months and in large patches. I looked like I was on :>> > > :> a bit of chemo and it stopped :>> > > :> around the 5 month mark.
:>> > > :> Laureen :>> > > :> :>> > > :> :>> > > :> :>> > > :> :>> > > :> :>> > > :> :>> > > :> :>> > > :> Roger Zoul wrote: :>> > > :>> It's all relative...when you liberate all that fat, you :>> > > :>> liberate the person who was in the fat suit.
"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
That's good to hear.
Wow.
Hehe. 'Probably thought he had a girl friend.
I know what you mean there. I'm surprised at the way different people react to a person who has lost a good amount of weight. I've been complimented by some, but it seems there are a large number that are expecting me to balloon back up any day now. Of course they probably know a lot of people, as do I, that regain it all. Strangers that have never met you would not know any different than what they see right now. Like a clean slate.
"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
Wasn't the immunity event just one day before the vote off? It seems hard to believe he would put on that much for strategic purposes. A zero loss, or 2 lb gain would probably give just as much advantage for strength gain/energy levels. I would almost suspect cheating by hiding weights somewhere to show no loss for the times that weightloss is not needed to stay in the game. And then get rid of the weights when a large weightloss is definitely needed to stay above the yellow line for the week. Seth also had a zero loss for the week when he won immunity, and then next week dropped a larger amount than usual. Actually, I am probably just cynical.
Yes. I remember that. It does look like he'll have some problems keeping it off if he isn't vigilant.
Jeff (Doc) has got my vote too.
"JC Der Koenig" jcderkoe...@ibm.com
You believe that walking up a flight of stairs is extreme exercise.
IOW, you don't know enough about exercise to have an opinion.
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You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW ...
"JC Der Koenig" jcderkoe...@ibm.com
If they didn't cut half of your guts out, you'd be over 500 pounds again tomorrow.
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You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW ...
"Laureen" TheBenne...@olypen.com
Even the prior obese people have opinions like they have never been fat. Last night I was at my WLS support group. The one guy (sitting in between guy "A" and guy"B"weighed 600 pounds and he has lost 360 pounds. He spent his life obese. We had guy "B" to his right that was trying to convert us all with the "You don't need protein". Some chiropractor turned quack nutritionist told him to eat 10 bites of fruit from breakfast until lunch intermittently and then 10 bites of veggies from lunch time til dinner and nothing after 5pm. Well......
later in the evening I commented to the prior 600lb guy that the guy next to him was a tad different point of view on post op eating. He, thinking I was referring to the other guy "A" on the left who happens to be homosexual, then spouted off " You mean the faggot? He's gay you know" WOW!!!! I was so offended and I even got my feelings hurt in proxy for the homosexual guy. I was so aghast I couldnt even set him straight and tell him no I'm not talking about him nor could I say " Hey! That was mighty nasty of you referring to him as a faggot." I may say something later as I havenow had some time to think about it, but you know he has walked the walk but in a different way as not too long ago he was judged for what he looked like and spent a lifetime at the mercy of everyones stares and ridicule. People don't think before they say things at times and how soon one forgets the plight of another person who may at one time or another be at a disadvantage also. I doubt I will ever forget the plight of a fat person.
And yes people have thought Larry got divorced and remarried. Heck, the neighbor lady quit waving at me after 10 years, she then asked who I was. I was at the fair this year and my daughter was on a ride with a schoolmate. I met the mother of him in kindergarten. She turned to me and asked if I was my daughters aunt and I said " No I'm her mother" and she said "Oh I could have swore I met her mother before" I said " You did, about 150 pounds ago" Laureen
Gregory Toomey nob...@bigpond.com
They are exercising at least 4 hour per day. Presumably this will increase muscle m*** & increase metabolism.
It is extreme - I saw a recent episode where they had to call an ambulance.
gtoomey
"Cubit" n...@not.not
Stairs? Oh, my gawd. I always use the elevator. Haven't you seen any movies? Murders happen in stairwells. People fall or get shot. The blood flows down the steps, or off the edge to the lobby several floors below.
I have not been watching this season's "The Biggest Loser." How do you spell: ad hominem?
"JC Der Koenig" <jcderkoe...@ibm.com> wrote in message ...
"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
Well, though I believe that a small calorie deficit would make it difficult to increase muscle m***, I think it is possible. Especially if a person had not been working out before and has good genetic potential. It is more likely that maintaining muscle would be the more true result though.
There is much literature that says muscle gain is not possible under a calorie deficit.
When there is as large a calorie deficit as these guys have obtained, it seems doubtful that there would be any muscle gain, let alone maintaining what they had. It could appear without any scientific evidence that muscle m*** has increased because of increases of weight on the bar. Therefore, if one loses say 50 lbs over a 3 month period, they should be able to increase 50lbs on the squat rack if they were just maintaining. In reality, there would be no increase in bar weight.
Chin-ups would also increase, which would appear as though strength has increased. As an example: I can strap a 45lb weight to a belt around my waist and do 1 or sometimes 2 full reps. The most that I can do without the 45lb weight is 13 chin-ups. This works out pretty close to experiments done on maximum weight for 1 rep and then 75 to 80% of that weight used for reps of about 10. So, theoretically, if I weighed a flabby 225 and could do 1 chin-up, then when I lose 45 lbs to settle out at 180, my chin-ups would increase slowly as my weight dropped without increasing muscle m*** or strength. This would appear to me that I was getting stronger, when in fact I would not have increased my strength, since if I strapped a 45 lb weight back on me, I would probably only be able to muster 1 or 2 reps.
Increasing metabolism. Most definitely.
ambulance.
I haven't seen all the episodes, but I do remember one of the ladies on last year's show was sure she was going to have the big one on the stairway climb. 4 hr/day seems like a lot for those that have not exercised before.
They seem to be adapting quite well though, with only a few minor injuries.
"Tom G" tpgall...@shaw.ca
I do think that an adequate protein intake is necessary to prevent muscle and tissue loss, including hair loss, loose teeth, and saggy skin while dieting to lose weight. Since cell replacement is going on constantly, it makes sense that while losing weight, enough protein must be ingested to repair and replace daily needs. Fat is also needed in these processes, and could provide extra energy so the body wouldn't have to resort to cannibalizing it's own tissue for fuel. Of course exercise is necessary as a feedback mechanism to stress the body and let it know what it needs. Any access tissue that is not continually used would be up for fair game.
Pure energy calories such as carbs would be the only thing that would not be directly needed by the body, because fat stores would provide needed fuel that the diet did not provide. It makes sense to me that the only true protein sparing diet would be one that has moderate to high protein along with moderate to high fat, which of course would be "low carb".
I'm saying moderate to high protein because I think there would be a minimum amount of protein that is required. If a diet chosen was 1000 Cal, then protein % would need to be high relative to the fat. If 2000 Cal were chosen, due to more activity, the protein needed would not be excessively more, so the fat % could be increased to be higher than the minimum protein required.
Hehe. If brain cells are not being used, I can't see why they wouldn't be up for grabs.
"Joe the Aroma" schizam2...@yahoo.com
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<snip> It irritates me to no end that the emphasis is on losing *weight* not fat, this occurs in this newsgroup as it does other "fitness" and "health" newsgroups. I'm sure this guy did lose 100 pounds in 2 hours or whatever.
You can accomplish the same by becoming an amputee.
"Laureen" TheBenne...@olypen.com
or 25lbs with an 8 hour surgery to have a lower lift :)
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