Submitting Game Ideas to Companies
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"Nomad" travisgen...@earthlink.net
Being a newbie college student I've got a few questions about game designs...
I've heard a few things about submitting a game idea to a company. Mostly I've read that they won't accept them unsolicited. What does this mean? Does anyone know if companies actually do buy ideas or do you have to work there to get an idea submitted? Or does that even work? WHO decides what game to make? What career path should you select if you want to be that guy? I've got a game idea and most people would say get a group together and make it yourself, but it's a m***ive multiplayer game that a few amateurs couldn't make given a thirty year timeline.... Who should I bring it to?...
Travis Gentry travisgen...@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~travisgentry/
Andreas Koch ak...@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de
Nomad schrieb: They won't buy them. Pure ideas alone are produced by trillions of people and therefore not worth anything. Post them here, and if they are good and you are lucky, someone uses them.
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Andreas Seeing Dune worms, i don't want to see the Dune BIRDS...
"Jason Shankel" see...@bottom.com
Trillions, eh? :)
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Jason Shankel Maxis/EA s h a n k e l "at" p o b o x . c o m Play rich, creamery OpenTrek at www.pobox.com/~shankel/opentrek.html I am Jack's throbbing spam filter
nat ...@visi.com (Nathan Mates)
The major thing to consider is that ideas are a dime a dozen, but it's the implementation (code, art, gameplay) of an idea that gives an idea any real value. That's because the work needed to implement an idea doesn't come cheap at all-- a man-month of work on an implementation (say 1 programmer, 1 artist for 2 weeks each) is decently costly these days. One really needs a good implementation to see if an idea is workable or not.
Start with something small. Everyone would love to work on the biggest things in the industry today, but, as you admit, you've hardly got much experience at all. The game you want to make will cost about as much as a normal standalone title to develop (probably about $2 million US), but cost another $2 mil or so to deploy the servers, pay for bandwidth, pay support staff, etc. And, you must buy the servers & bandwidth whether your game is a hit or not.
A year or so ago, I heard a figure that there were 80+ m***ively multiplayer games in development. The market, quite frankly, can't support that many subscription-based games at once. [And, websites are proving that advertisement-based is really not working now.] Nathan Mates
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<*> Nathan Mates - personal webpage http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ # Programmer at Pandemic Studios -- http://www.pandemicstudios.com/ # NOT speaking for Pandemic Studios. "Care not what the neighbors # think. What are the facts, and to how many decimal places?" -R.A. Heinlein
Andreas Koch ak...@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de
Jason Shankel schrieb: IBM *HAS* subspace transmitters ;)
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Andreas Seeing Dune worms, i don't want to see the Dune BIRDS...
"Kasey Chang \(use EXCITE.COM instead!\)" ksch...@my-deja.com
mean?
It means exactly what it says. If they want it, they'll ASK YOU for it (i.e. solicit you).
If you send it to them without them asking (unsolicited), they'll just return it unopened.
They do NOT buy ideas. They don't need ideas. They need ACTUAL FINISHED GAMES that they can SELL, that WILL SELL.
Even if you work there, unless you're at ***istant producer level or something you STILL won't get your ideas in the door.
The executive committee of the publisher, who looks at the market for each genre they produce and look at the "lead time" needed for each game and such.
Of course, if you're talking about a single product company like makers of Combat Mission, or Steel Beasts, and such, then that's the whole thing. I say I'm going to make this game, so I did.
Start from the bottom rungs of game design, like artists, level design, and so on. Eventually you may make it to producer. Even producer though don't decide what games get made, though they have some influence on it.
Doubt you'll convince any one that's worth anything. Why don't you do it as a MUD first with no graphics, and see how that turns out first?
--KC
"Nomad" travisgen...@earthlink.net
From what I've seen these games are VERY similar. Either you kill each other, or you kill some creatures with only their features varying. Doesn't anyone think there is room for something new? As the old saying goes "Under the sun there is nothing new." There may be in fact nothing new under the sun, but we're ignoring all but two or three rigidly set genres of games that have potential to be successful m***ively multiplayer games (am I wrong here, is there something new I haven't seen?) My concept (http://home.earthlink.net/~travisgentry/design1.htm) has been discussed on this newsgroup before and received mainly positive reviews, with people pointing out alot of pitfalls and mistakes that I should avoid. Of course I'm biased and will probably receive many opinions stating otherwise, but I think it offers something that other online games don't as well as appealing to a neglected gamer when it comes to m***ive multiplayer games. The players collectively and as individuals not only explore and interact with one another but also slowly piece together a complicated and mysterious history.
There is not only a purpose behind their individual actions based on their own goals for success and notoriety, but purpose for the community as a whole. Of course the natural response is that you can't have a story ending element in an m***ive multiplayer. I would suggest that it isn't an ending at all, can open up more possibilities, and take the game to a new stage rather then keep it in the same purposeless rut. For instance in my game after two or three years the mystery of the planet they are exploring is solved, then what? Well this story is only a small portion of what's really going on. The players collectively solve this, opening up a larger perspective on what's happening, why this species disappeared, why they themselves are there, and it opens up exploring on an even larger scale.
They still have their own adventures, their stories are unique, their goals and motives their own. But there is a purpose to them being there in the first place and their actions contribute to a larger goal. I think the reason I got tired of playing Everquest was the only motivating factor which is to get more stuff and talk to people who also want to get more stuff.
Once you have more stuff, you want to get even more stuff. Then what?
There's no bigger picture. No matter how big you get you are still playing the exact same game and it get's tired. Don't get me wrong that is an addictive and fun element, and it's a large part of my game as well. Anyway the point is, why are there so many m***ive online games vying for the top spot in the exact same genre when there are unexplored possibilites elsewhere? The argument is most likely that gamers don't want to try a new game, they just want a new feature on their old one. I don't think this is the case. I would suggest the market is open to something different done right, but then again why risk it when you've got a formula that works?
Travis Gentry travisgen...@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~travisgentry/
"Tom Sloper" toms...@sloperama.com
Hello Travis Gentry, you wrote: You just want to submit an IDEA? In what form are you planning to express this idea?
It means, "don't just mail us something, we won't read it." Make an appointment with the person at the company who's responsible for receiving submissions. Sign the required agreement(s), THEN send your submission.
Read the reply to Exender on the Bulletin Board For Aspiring Game Designers (http://www.sloperama.com/advice/bulletinbd.htm) dated 27 Apr 2001 for further info on what to expect.
What do you mean by "idea" exactly?
a. I tell you my idea, possibly waving my hands while I speak.
b. I write down my idea in a one-page letter.
c. I define my idea in a several-page treatment, possibly with some sketches.
d. I write a full game design document.
e. I make a videotape of a CG animation to illustrate what the game would look like.
f. I program a working demo of the game to illustrate how the game will play.
g. I program the game in full, then shop it around to publishers.
The different types of submissions above are listed in reverse order of their chance of success. You have the LOWEST chance of success of getting money for a verbal description of your idea. You have the HIGHEST chance of success of getting money for a completed game. But (are you ready for the bad news?) even if you program your game in full, your chances of actually getting it sold to a publisher are pretty darned slim. See my reply to Exender (on the Sloperama Game Designers bulletin board) for more details.
Hoo boy. Read Lesson #1 at my website. Go to http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html, click on Lesson 1.
Get degrees in law, business, finance. Start your own game company. (Maybe also study about programming, graphics, design -- or maybe don't.) I wouldn't say that. I'd say get a job in the game biz, learn about the biz from the inside. See Lesson 1 at my website. Then read the other lessons too.
Clearly you don't want to try to make an MMOG yourself.
You want to sell an "idea" for a MMOG, huh? I don't mean to dash any dreams, but I sincerely doubt that anybody is going to want to give you money for an MMOG "idea." I sincerely recommend that you take your enthusiasm for games, get a college degree, then get a job in a game company. See Lesson 1.
Good luck -- all is possible, but there is no shortcut. The path must be followed to its logical conclusion. You have a lot of preparation and hard work ahead of you before you can achieve your goal.
Tom Sloper http://www.sloperama.com
"Nomad" travisgen...@earthlink.net
I am in the process of writing the design document. You can see it here: http://home.earthlink.net/~travisgentry/design1.htm right now I'm working on D and thinking about making the step to E once that's complete.
I'm currently in my Junior year getting a degree in Computer Graphics for Games. Although this is what I would mainly like to do I was just wondering about the design process..thanks for clearing it up. your page is a big help.
Travis Gentry travisgen...@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~travisgentry/
Sparky ph...@phobe.com
Well, first of all, you don't necessarily have to be a *guy* :) The quickest way? Start your own game company and start making the game you want to make. That's what we did. If you don't yet have the skills necessary to actually make a game, then pick a direction -- art or programming -- and learn them. Go work for a game company and get the experience and knowledge of the industry you'll need. Starting out as a tester is a good way to get experience while learning. If you're really dedicated, you can skip the game company experience and just start on your own game, but you'll have to learn a lot of things about the biz the hard way.
IMHO, "Game Designer" is a title that carries a lot of mythical baggage, much like "Fairy Princess". Yes, everyone wants to magically become a Fairy Princess/Game Designer. Just kiss an enchanted frog or wave a magic wand, and *boom* -- you're wearing a glittery pink tutu and diamond tiara, sitting on a comfy tuffet at a tea party in Candyland with Carmack, Molyneux and Will Wright. "Please p*** the sugar...mind you don't wake the dormouse in that teapot. Now what were you saying about pathfinding, Mr.Miyamoto?" But, sadly, it doesn't work that way.
Now, where's my damn tutu?
Sparky co-conspirator, Octopus Motor http://www.theycamefromhollywood.com
Erik Max Francis m...@alcyone.com
I particularly like the first sentence in the document: By reading any further you agree to recognize and respect the copyright laws in place that protect my ideas from being copied or misused.
You can't copyright ideas. You can only copyright your expression of them. You can copyright that design document, but you can't copyright the design.
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Erik Max Francis / m...@alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/ __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE / \ Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.
\__/ Oscar Wilde 7 sisters productions / http://www.7sisters.com/ Web design for the future.
"Stephan Winter" win...@sunfraggersNOSPAM.de
Hello Nomad, i can tell about some experience i made at my company. We usually receive a couple "ideas", "design douments", "demo versions" per month. After the international tradeshows like E3 and ECTS our people come home with a lot more. Like someone mentioned here in this thread the quality differs a lot.
The lowest level is a 10 to 20 pages "design document" usually written by someone not aware of the important question about realistic game development. Personally i have never heard of a company that actually bought an idea based on that kind of document even though ideas on paper usually all sound great ;).
Hehe damn good question ;). If its about evaluating a running demo of a game there are different steps of the decicion progress. First is that a couple of freelancers (usually beta or balancing testers) have a look at the game for a day or two and write down a short summary about the look and feel of the game. Those summaries are hand over to the full time "game designer" and depending on the summaries he has a deeper look into the game. The designer gets back to a producer and if both agree they take the matter to the CEO and marketing stuff. At the end of it a lot of people are involved in the decision process....
This all counts for running development demos not "design documents"......
Like someone else mentioned in the thread start over in the industry and get some experience how game development works. A good start might be as an artist (in your case), leveldesigner, content writer or beta tester. Try to work closely with the development team and show up your potential. Finish at least one title, no matter if its a topten hit or not, with the team and then come up with some of your own ideas for a next project.
Best regards from Germany, Stephan
i ...@NOSPAM.heavycat.com (Heavy Cat Multimedia Ltd.)
Speaking from experience, and as a member of an indepdendent game development company, I would vote to reduce the scope of the game and just develop it.
A small, simple, fun, *completed* game is far more valuable than a m***ive super-ultra-cool idea that never gets past the idea stage. :) The economics of the "game industry" are far too broken to make a viable business case to a publisher in all but a tiny percentage of the cases.
Even if a deal is available, the royalties will be limited, possibly not even covering your time and equipment costs, and even if the game does sell 100,000 copies. If you can keep costs to the point where your break even number is reasonable, then a smaller publisher might at least listen, but the big publishers probably won't. Its too bad, because I'm sure you have a great idea and the game has lots of potential. One good thing about being an independent developer is that *our* break even number would make most publishers turn green. :)
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YOU FORTH LIKE IF HONK THEN Scott Heavy Cat Multimedia Ltd.
http://www.heavycat.com
i ...@NOSPAM.heavycat.com (Heavy Cat Multimedia Ltd.)
...
lol ...
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"C combines the power of ***embler with the ease of use of ***embler" Scott Heavy Cat Multimedia Ltd.
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"Grom" r...@murky.net
First bit's kinda off topic, but I've just been to see your design, and thought I'd post some, er, thoughts on it in this thread rather than an older one: Interesting design.
Have you read the Heechee novels by Frederik Pohl? A similar concept insofar as an entire industry was built on the archaeological exploration of a vanished species. The Heechee were however far more advanced than the human race at the time, and had settled on Venus and other inhospitable planets. This made the struggle to find artifacts much harder, as the environment was very hostile. The rewards were greater though, with highly advanced technology up for grabs. There was if I remember correctly some semi-military body charged with overseeing the work and basically buying up new discoveries under a system of compulsory purchase.
Getting back to the subject of your thread; if you are using your design to showcase your talents, p*** it around as much as possible. Accept that it is *extremely* unlikely that you will get hired to make Minos. More likely you will have to prove yourself working on other peoples' designs, and then put your idea through your chosen company's submissions process as a possible development prospect.
Use your idea to get a job in the industry, and forget your paranoia. Sure someone might nick your idea, or 'come up with' something very similar, or take elements of it, or whatever. But remember there are plenty more game ideas you can come up with - don't base your entire future on one design, or you might end up like Derek Smart... Good luck with finding a job at a good company.
I'm kinda halfway there myself, but I know it's going to be a while yet.
Grom Robert McLachlan http://www.particle-systems.com/
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