Counseling
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"Miss Kitten" misskitte...@yahoo.com
My husband and I are having marital problems and I suggested counseling. He refuses to go to counseling to work on our marriage. What is worse, when I asked about going to some therapy or counseling on my own, he didn't want me to do that either. Any suggestions?
MissKitten
"Roger \(Rog'\)" afn04...@afn.org
Tell him, "T.S. you're going" and he can take a hike.
If you have health insurance, it'll cover most of it ot you can get a referral from from a local mental health agency.
This is about what you want and need.
===Rog'=== ...
JaKe jkdrum...@yahoo.com
Yeah, don't do it. I recommend this book instead: http://www.gottman.com/newbook.htm JaKe
floridanew ...@hotmail.com (floridaNB)
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:21:20 -0400, "Miss Kitten" Do you have young children at home? If so, the two of you owe it to the children to try to save your marriage, leaving no rocks unturned.
Is the marriage in jeopardy? If so, does he realize this?
How long have you been together (dating and then marriage)?
What kinds of problems are you experiencing?
I'd read the Gottman books (or others) and think very carefully before issuing any ultimatum ... you must be prepared to follow through or you will have painted yourself into a corner with hollow threats.
If he still will not go and you cannot find any other way to resolve your difficulties, either you can accept the current state of affairs or take steps to end the marriage. Keep in mind, most men are not raised to be open to the idea of counseling (or talking to strangers about such problems). Perhaps a different approach from what you have been using will help .. depends on the nature of the most immediate problem(s) John Gottman: Why Marriages Succeed or Fail The Seven Principles For Making Marriage Work FloridaNB
"urf" urf...@nospam.com
Step one: Go anyway. You make a statement by going yourself.
...
JaKe jkdrum...@yahoo.com
Typical counseling: Rx: Tell me how you feel about him.
Her: He doesn't care about us any more, he does this he says that.
Rx: Tell me how you feel about her.
Him: She doesn't let me do this or that and she's cold as ice.
Rx: Hmmm, I see you two need to work on understanding each other better.
Her: I need for him to do more in our relationship.
Rx: Tell him now what needs to be done.
Her: Please Please change your ways and see things as they are.
Him: Grunt Rx: That's great! Just let it all out! Her: I do feel better!
Him: Grunt Rx: That'll be $150 please.
The ride home is quiet and the anger simmering until the next "coached" session. Bringing a third party is bullshit. Solve your problems yourself with out the game of trying to win in front of an audience.
Rx: What you two ever considered taking medication?
"JWB" jwbspamkiller3...@excite.com
it sounds like he doesn't want things to change.
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JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail ...
jadelee111 ...@aol.com (Jadelee111512)
You've either been to lousy therapists or watch too many movies.
Medication is a bandaid for marital problems. It'll add insult to injury.
Medication is for when you are sick, not for when you don't know how to communicate or feel.
jadelee
ro ...@hhmi.ucla.edu (Karen Ronan)
This does _not_ resemble any couples counseling I've seen. It sounds absolutely ridiculous.
Karen
JaKe jkdrum...@yahoo.com
Tell me how this makes you feel? Why?
Tell me about your childhood and your relationship with your Dad. In the meantime, I'll put this rat through a maze.
Still need that prozac script filled?
Now, visualize a beach sans anyone including your ex.
Just relax and listen to the running water.
Let me give a m***age while you tell me about that mean selfish husband.
"The Altruistic Dr Webb" thedr...@yahoo.com
,,counselling doesn't work,,trust me it's just a croc of shit to get more money from u,,it may tell u where u went wrong,,that's all,,if your marriage is ****ed then it's ****ed,,period Doc
floridanew ...@hotmail.com (floridaNB)
I don't recall reading that in Gottman but then I do miss things in books. I suggested Gottman to gain some insight into how to select an effective counselor.
As for her going without him, she can and should ... she has some tough decisions to make and should make them with as much information and rational thought as possible.
FloridaNB
"Miss Kitten" misskitte...@yahoo.com
yes, a 4 month old I have told him that I am not happy in this relationship. I have told him I would like to leave, but with a new baby and my parents just moved to another state, things are really hard. I also just had surgery, so physically I am not able to leave at this time.
we dated for about 9 months and have been married 4 1/2 years it is hard to put a finger on one problem. i dont feel he helps around the house enough (i.e. he wants me to work overtime - to help pay bills- and then come home and do all the cooking and cleaning and taking care of the baby, on the weekends I do all the laundry and housework), he doesnt communicate enough, spends too much time on the pc (usually from the time her walks in the door til we go to bed, including dinner). he complains i sleep too much and never want to do anything or go anywhere (which I have explained to him is part of depression). I am not trying to blame everything on him...i know i have faults, the problem is he wont tell me anything. nothing ever upsets him, he thinks everything is ok you hit the nail on the head. he doesnt believe in therapy. he says we should be adult enough to handle our own problems. but i feel we need therapy because he will not handle/discuss our problems. like i said in his mind everything is fine. which maybe for him it is, afterall he doesnt do anything and gets to play all he wants.
"Miss Kitten" misskitte...@yahoo.com
I believe it is 'counselable'. I feel like no matter how many times I tell him how I feel I am not getting thru, I think maybe an outside source could maybe rephrase in a way he will understand.
"Miss Kitten" misskitte...@yahoo.com
I plan on it. I am just trying to figure out how insurance works with counseling. Anyone an insurance specialist here?
MissKitten ...
Empress of the Known Universe empresso...@yahoo.com
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:23:24 -0400, "Miss Kitten" I am. Call the (800) number on your card and ask about benefits. If you have any questions, you can email me.
Empress of the Known Universe "To Rule Is To Serve"
JaKe jkdrum...@yahoo.com
You're the same one who wrote about having a husband who spends all night online view porn right? Did any responses from this group help you out with that problem?
JaKe
ro ...@hhmi.ucla.edu (Karen Ronan)
It sounds like he has dissociated from you, the baby, and his marriage. To heal the marriage, he has to (a) admit that he is neglecting his family; and (b) talk about what causes him to dissociate and what would it take to get him back.
A good therapist would elicit this information from him.
This is an admission on his part that he feels childlike and immature, and he's ashamed/scared that a therapist (who he perceives as an authority figure) may notice this and shame him even more.
Anyway, you can go on your own, and you don't need his approval or permission.
Karen
Gale uniqg...@my-deja.com
This sounds familiar. I had to be persistent to get my wife to accept me talking to a therapist about my depression. It took about a year. She continues to refuse to talk to a marriage counseler.
Has your husband explained why he refuses to talk with a marriage counseler?
Has he explained why he doesn't want you to talk to a therapist?
Keep trying to work on your problems, both with each other and using whatever resources he will respond to.
Where have you been looking for ideas to help with your marriage problems?
- I like Gottman's "seven principles" book that Jake mentioned.
- I also like Harley's ideas at "http://www.marriagebuilders.com".
- We are in a group that is reading Gary Smalley's old book "Love is a Decision". It is helpful, from a Christian perspective.
- Schnarch's "P***ionate Marriage" also is insightful on the role of sex.
- Retrouvaille at "http://www.retrouvaille.com" is a Christian program run by survivors. If your husband is only refusing to allow outsiders to hear about your problems, he may be able to accept their approach.
--
Gale
floridanew ...@hotmail.com (floridaNB)
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:20:12 -0400, "Miss Kitten" First, congratulations on your new baby. Soon some of the other mothers who survived those first months after giving birth to their first child will be along with some advice.
Woah ... merely being unhappy is no reason to leave, not if the problems can be addressed and fixed. It is not uncommon for a new mother to feel totally overwhelmed ... and it is a heck of an adjustment for men too; they have to learn to shoulder more of the load of running a household. This is a major period of adjustment for both of you. Don't cut and run at the first sign of trouble; fix it!
How well did the two of you get along before the baby was born (or conceived)? Did you have fun being together? Were there many problems? If so, how did the two of you resolve them?
Right there is a big red flag to you ... quit thinking of leaving until you know specifically what is wrong and that it cannot be fixed.
Totally unfair; no wonder you are exhausted ... did he leave his parents house (and mother) to get married, failing to live on his own to see what it takes to run a household?
Prioritize .. some stuff just will not get done. If he runs out of laundry or cannot find anything to eat, he may get the hint. You are a wife, mother and partner, not a servant or slave.
The two of you can make a list of things which must be done ... then let him pick some of the things he can do. He may not have a clue how to do some of the stuff so be patient while he learns ... and do not get on his back because he does not do those things exactly the way you do them. There are many ways to fold towels and bathrooms do not have to be cleaned every freaking day :-) Be fair to him... does he do the maintenance on the cars, the lawn work, repairs to the house, etc? He gets credit for all this stuff you know.
Was he always like this? If so, nothing has changed from the time you were dating. Not a fair complaint from you if coming out of the blue ... perhaps you can learn to communicate better with him, not only verbally but non-verbally. If you change how you talk or respond, he may come around ... Oh Shepette, where are you?
Is this work or are we getting into the online porn or chat part of the thread ... or do you think he is basically avoiding you and trying to duck helping around the house?
What has happened to your sex life since the baby was born?
Depression can be treated and controlled.
What are you doing about the depression? He needs to learn more about what depression is and how it affects people. Until I faced someone with it, while I thought I knew what it was, I was as ignorant as a rock (still am, so be careful when you read what I write).
Can you tell us about your faults? What are you doing to change them?
In some regard, he sounds like one of the people in ASD (alt.support.divorce) who says everything was peachy-keen fine until all of a sudden she (or he) said it was over and they were filing for divorce. Relationships are a lot more work than many people suspect; adding children only makes the dynamics more complex.
Careful there ... he may not be as happy as you think he is. If he is hiding at the computer instead of interacting with you, that suggests he could be thinking some of the same thoughts about leaving as you are thinking.
Being a typical American guy taught to handle his own problems, I understand his feelings about counseling ... this is how many of us were raised. It took me many bull-headed years to see the potential value in seeking out expert advice on relationships. I have never been to a counselor/therapist/psychoanalyst myself though ... a person with time and a lot of motivation can glean much from good books and other sources BUT if that person has an immediate problem where time is of the essence (like saving a relationship) or won't do the leg work him/herself, then counseling can be an appropriate, beneficial step. I do not hesitate to consult outside professionals when I run into problems with my cars, real estate, taxes, legal questions, etc so why not avail one's self of what is out there when it comes to mental health and relationships?
The Gottman books can give you an interesting idea as to how one well-respected person in the field approaches counseling. He does not believe in a lot of the stuff that once was accepted protocol and still is practiced by many counselors.
Hang in there ... work on yourself first. You cannot change your husband; only he can do that... but if your outlook and approach change, his behavior most likely will change as a result.
FloridaNB
"Roger \(Rog'\)" afn04...@afn.org
In my experience... Typically, there's three issues: 1. A deductable which must be met (if not met already).
2. A cap on how much and how often (like $100 every 7 days).
3. Finding a therapist who'll file claims for you.
Of course, if you're part of an HMO or PPO program, it'll have a list you'll have to choose from.
===Rog'=== ...
<snip>
floridanew ...@hotmail.com (floridaNB)
Hiya Karen, I don't want to get into a fight with you but ....
As I read what Kitten wrote, she said she would "like to leave;" that does not sound like an ultimatum to me but then I wasn't there to hear exactly what she said, how she said it or how often she said it.
Maybe but maybe not. He may be totally confused about what is going on and have retreated rather than engaging in battle.
You seem to suggest the solution to her unhappiness rests pretty much on his shoulders. I think this could be a recipe for a stalemate or relationship disaster ... but what do I know? Possibly she has driven him into his cave and he does not know how to deal with it.
I suppose that might be one possibility but I can see many other reasons for his behavior. I do know if Kitten tells him he is childlike and immature, she has just slammed shut the doors of possible communication. Being a guy, I may be a tad sensitive to such charges since I readily admit I am often childlike and enjoy playing with toys and games. I also like to laugh a lot. Kitten, do you and your husband have a sense of humor any more? Did y'all ever have one? And this is what she should do if she cannot get a handle on things herself ... a therapist may eventually show her how to get her husband into counseling once she has dealt with her own problems, insecurities, depression, etc.
FloridaNB
floridanew ...@hotmail.com (floridaNB)
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:42:19 -0400, "Roger \(Rog'\)" Regardless of the financial issues, it is crucial you find someone with whom you are comfortable ... and get them to lay out the game plan up front about how they approach counseling, what the goals are and how to measure progress. You do NOT want to get on board the lifetime psychoanalysis train which will take years (or eons) to tell you sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar. Too bad deja.com is gone ... I'd suggest you hunt down some of jadelee's (oceanmomma) posts on the difficulty of finding the right counselor. Perhaps she can give some clues or that family counseling web site.
FloridaNB
"urf" urf...@nospam.com
excellent.
...
Gale uniqg...@my-deja.com
I didn't realize that you'd changed names here.
Silly of me.
Glad that you're still here.
--
Gale
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