one is in love other is not
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nots ...@myself.com (Needs Help)
Another weekend apart, another late night honesty session, another night in separate beds (makes about 2 weeks of psuedo-separation).
She says she hasn't loved me (other than a general love for other life forms) for years. She admits that it will be hell either way, together or apart. She is dreading the holidays, the faking it. She says I deserve something better.
She has tapered off emotionally and physically to nothing except she'll put her arm around me if I am crying. My love for her is this: past, present, future inspite of the pain of then and now. I know she can love since she can open the valve for the children and for old cl***mates and for others except me. We have promised fidelity throughout this but I feel like this is a bomb waiting to go off since needs aren't being met. She was my first and I am hoping only. I wasn't hers.
I was really angry about how she controlled me and ignored my needs. Now I feel great loss and an empathy for her tormented being which I want to see be healed. I feel that my childrens' hope for a noraml upbringing is going down in flames. These are why I have cried today.
She doesn't have any good girlfriends and isn't really able to talk her family. Once a spiritual person now she dosn't seem to have a great interest. She will do church as long as she doesn't have to engage personally. We are in individual therapy with a goal of saving the marriage but she can't verbalize any committment to do this. I haven't really changed except for trying to be honest and verbalizing (both past problems) continuing small acts of kindness and wanting to see it survive then thrive is at forefront of my being right now.
Spending time together makes he anxious. Being apart makes me anxious.
Therapist is saying to keep going, even on a spiritual level, for my own peace of mind but I feel we'll be done before she ever gets us in the room together. Now I have a couple of questions for the group: 1)I have the fight (God willing and I have told her many times and my friends as well, or I would have probably walked before this) to want to stick in there to make it work. She does not at this time. Has anyone been there and back?
2)How do you really take care of yourself when the other isn't meeting any needs?
3) Any thought on the pseudo-separation thing? Or do we make other plans and let the 13,8,6, and 3 year old know that mommie and daddie are f'd up and she dosn't love me. We have room in the house to make another bedroom. Or should I bold and tell her to pack and leave and get back to me about what she really wants to do?
Gotta go. Thanks in advance. The email address really works if anybody wants to send a private message. NH
"Dreamspinner3" dreamspinn...@yahoo.com
Has she told you when she stopped loving you and why? If she did, can you share with us this information? What is going to have to fake? I ***ume you mean that your extended families don't know about your marriage troubles & that she dreads faking a happy marriage to you in front of them. Am I correct about this?
The love a person feels for their children and/or for friends is different from the love they feel for a spouse. It is possible she is no longer capable of feeling spousal love for you anymore.
waiting to go off since hers.
Who's needs are not being met? I ***ume you mean your mean your sexual needs are not being met. You can't honestly think she's going to have sex with you during this stressful time in your marriage. And what does it matter if you were not her "first"? Why is that important at all right now?
No one is in control of your needs except yourself. You can give yourself the illusion someone else is in control by being p***ive & allowing someone else to walk all over you...but you still are making the decision to be p***ive and to allow others to use you. Thus, you are still in control of yourself, your life, and your own needs. You are responsible for your own happiness, your own joy, your own life! You can't expect someone else to fulfill your every emotional need. It is impossible for someone to fulfill ALL the emotional needs of another person.
You want her healed? Define what you mean by "healed". Also, define "normal" for me too, will you? What is "normal" for you might not be for someone else. And just because your marriage MIGHT be breaking up doesn't mean your children still can grow up happy & well-adjusted. It is possible for divorced parents to raise happy children...it just takes a lot work & thought on the part of BOTH parents.
Don't worry about if she has friends or not. Focus on yourself and your children. People change, maybe she no longer believes in whatever she used to define as "God".
can't verbalize any committment to do this.
Why aren't you in marriage counseling instead and/or in addition to individual counseling? I would think that, if you want to save your marriage, marriage counseling would be the better tool than individual counseling.
Why haven't you changed? Do you feel you need to? In order for your marriage to survive, it will be necessary for you to change I am afraid.
How & in what ways, I don't know. Your counselor can help you with this.
You MUST give your wife the space she needs right now to think things through right now. Believe it or not, you need the time too. You need to develop your own identify & the ability to be happy by and with yourself!
It sounds to me like you have this strangle-hold on your wife emotionally...that you feel she should be your everything and meet all your emotional needs. That is not a healthy attitude and pushing such on your wife will probably turn her away from you even more.
The therapist is right. You need and must work on yourself first before anything else can be done.
No, I haven't. But I can tell you if one person doesn't want to stay in a relationship, there is no way to make it work.
any needs?
Again, you must fulfill your own needs. Stop looking outside of yourself for fulfillment. That is the first step you must take in order to learn how to take care of yourself. You are your own person, separate from your wife.
Accept this. She will NEVER be able to meet all of your needs. No one will be able to.
DO NOT DRAG YOUR CHILDREN INTO THIS AS PAWNS. Do not tell your children Mommy & Daddy ****ed up anything! Talk to your therapist on what is the best course of action to take in handling this situation in relation to your children. Do not hurt them further by using them to get back at your wife or as a tool to keep your wife in the marriage. Your children deserve better.
tell her to pack and leave and get back to me about what she really >wants to do?
Slow down! Do you have to make such a decision right now? Again, what does your therapist think? If I were you, I wouldn't rush into anything right now or take any "bold: actions. You should probably consult with a lawyer, however. If it should come to a divorce, you MUST be aware of your legal rights & obligations towards yourself, your children, & your wife.
Good luck.
"JWB" jwbremovethis3...@excite.com
Has she told you *why*? I think you have a right to know. Also, if she felt this way for "years", why does she have a three year old child with you?
I think your wife needs a shrink more than a therapist.
JWB
Doug Anderson ethelthe...@yahoo.com
Not really, but I've been close to there and partway back.
Yeah, I never know what people mean by this. You have to reconcile yourself for the time being to the fact that your partner cannot satisfy any of your needs. Whatever needs you _can_ satisfy without your partner, do. And then I have no other advice except that lots of your needs will go unsatisfied for a while.
Don't understand the pseudo-separation. Do you mean not sharing a bedroom? I don't know what the right thing to do about telling your kids, but it makes sense to me to let the older ones know that you and your wife are having problems, and your working on them, and that you really love your kids (and that the kids have nothing to do with the problems).
What gives you the right to tell her to pack and leave? I don't think you can tell her that. I do think you can give her an ultimatum about you leaving, but is that actually a good idea?
Doug
Joe Six Pack joesix_p...@hotmail.com
Don't know if this will help. And I do believe that when one person is "gone" you may not be able to bring them back--no matter how determined you are to "keep" somebody, if they're determined to get out of the relationship, they will get out.
Anyway, my wife "fell out of love" with me. After a couple of miserable years, where things pretty much sucked for both of us, but not to the point where one of us HAD TO LEAVE, we're still together.
What I think is relevant is that when I was about ready to give up, and was preparing to bail (or preparing to prepare, I was beginning to show signs of giving up), she started acting like she maybe actually gave a damn about me after all.
So what you can do, in my experience, is show that you love her. Show you care. Don't speak empty words, don't smother her, but make sure she can see that you love her in what you do and how you treat her. The only reason I'm still here in this marriage is because she did that for me.
--JSP
nots ...@myself.com (Needs Help)
nope. too tired to probe tonite If she did, can you yep on the faking stuff. I will reason that since they know we're not faking.
both of ours but mine getting met were mostly conditional. taking no giving I have more needs than sex, Spinner. I would settle for a little acceptance and admiration and affection probably even faster. Less sticky anyhow. She's compared me to others. First I was da man and now I am ...
This I don't jive 100 percent with even though you are reaching me with your other comments. The vows we took included meeting many of each other's physical,sexual, and emotional needs. I have never forced sex (pleaded but never forced). I felt my needs time and time again were slaughtered in favor of hers. I was willing to begin therapy as soon as I got wind she felt that maybe it wan't all my fault. I am working on the self-image in both a sprirtual and emotional sense. But yes I am some to blame since I couldn't communicate to slove this early on. The pain has allowed me to perceive more than ever the world around me and I am happy and sad at he same time.
I meant want her to be happy I want my kids to be happy. We don't need a dictionary. I do like your use of MIGHT, Spinner. That's why I'm here to keep the hopes up. Been there done that what they tell you about broken homes and happy ever after isn't normally true it affects you NO MATTER WHAT.
The friendless thing troubles her. God loves her and so do I.
It is marital but starts out with intense 1 on 1 with the therapist before the combatants are in the room together. It goes with what you said about the you yourself and feeling, etc.
I am changing. It is mostly internal for the better with verbal and tangible expressions. What I thought I was trying to say I can't remember.
This is tough. I think she stranggles herself by not telling me what's up.
I told her in tears that I cannot make her love me and that I will give her the time and space. I see your point though.
Kids are doing well so far no one is a pawn or ever will be.
Remember, I did this gig as a kid so I know how it works.
Openned mouth and vented. I'd last about 10 seconds after attepting that.
Dreamspinner, you've been more than kind with your time in replying.
Thanks!
nots ...@myself.com (Needs Help)
I am a little (!) confused here as well. The youngster is cute though. Looks alot like me :) Doesn't seem to have my personality flaws either.
We are both in conselling.
"JWB" jwbremovethis3...@excite.com
Has she told you *why*? I think you have a right to know. Also, if she felt Just a gut feeling, from what you wrote, is either she's cheating, or she''s not thinking rationally. You say she isn't cheating, so I'll ***ume (for the moment) that's true. I was meaning she should see a psych, not a marriage counselor.
JWB
nots ...@myself.com (Needs Help)
Like vent it there or understand my buttons? I hope to have enough out beforehand that I can communicate during And I value you advice guess I should be used to it for the most part. Most aggravating is waking up at 4:00 am with 5 whattif's and whythehell's on your mind.
True, true. I will also run this by our consellor.
Doug, again you come as the angel on my shoulder as I am throwing rocks at others. No kicking her out isn't what I really want. I just am venting again.
One trusted source says plan on 6 months or more of the separate thing. I am thinking that my own room with my own stuff would be easier that the couch.
Best wishes for you and yours, NH
"Thraka" thr...@xenocide.org
This sounds suspiciously like an affair, especially the part about you deserving something better. It seems a very common thing for a wayward spouse to take this stance, as if by releasing you, they are themselves released.
Thraka
claresann ...@aol.com (AnnieO)
What's the difference between the two, beside the fact that a psych can prescribe an Rx? Or is that the difference??
annie_o
"JWB" jwbremovethis3...@excite.com
well, I don't consider a marriage counselor to be the same as a psy. It appears as though she's not thinking rationally (as in mental illness) or she's just cheating :) JWB
nots ...@myself.com (Needs Help)
Sometimes I wonder....but my thoughts go irrational pretty easily these days.
I would hate to push something over the edge to quickly at this point but I dying to know as well. Thanks for the reply-NH
nots ...@myself.com (Needs Help)
I am wondering the best way escalate this-with the consellor or ourselves. She was broken up the next day and pro-offered more time to talk about stuff later on but I didn't feel the time was right for another big session. The dark side says if she's treated me this way for years and cheated and doesn't intend on changing to help her pack and start rebuilding my life. The light side says we both said I do and we did and that she's hurting from her past and needs a lot of help. She seems willing to try and perhaps she is lashing out with these words in an attempt to communicate, which I was warned is pretty normal. This being the case I am willing to try hard so am I for the benefit of all involved incluing the kids.
The counsellor is not a shrink but seems to have a decent handle on the situation. Believe me we will talk about this and see if my wife needs more that what we got going now.
Thanks for the input-NH
nots ...@myself.com (Needs Help)
Hey Joe-
That helps. Seems like my gig all over again. I see a spark in her eye every now and again that makes it seem like my demonstrations of love are being recognized as that and not as an attempt to buy her back. If you or anyone has some action items besides flowers, gifts, freedom for her to be alone at times aways from all of us let me know.
Thanks, NH Joe Six Pack <joesix_p...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <>...
Doug Anderson ethelthe...@yahoo.com
Not necessarily though. It isn't so different from what things were like for my wife and I a couple months ago. There was no affair, but there was (extended) depression on her part. Besides lots of other negatives, the depression contributed significantly to feelings of worthlessness.
The OP is probably the best judge of whether his spouse is actually being honest. I seem to recall (perhaps I'm mixing up stories) remarks in one post that suggest that he didn't see that she had much real opportunity for an affair.
If there were many lengthy unexplained absences, then I'd have a lot more suspicion about affairs. Anyway, I'm not sure if it matters; they are in tough shape regardless of affairs.
Doug
claresann ...@aol.com (AnnieO)
So, PDocs are good at diagnosing mental illness (clinical depression, schizophrenia, paranoia...) and counselors help with situational depression, finding solutions to life's problems, stuff like that? How do you know if you're mentally ill? Wouldn't the fact that you are also keep you from seing that fact? annie_o
thanatop ...@yahoo.com (Thana)
When you put "us" into "psy" you get a whole 'nother meaning :-) thana
claresann ...@aol.com (AnnieO)
LOL Are you on "meds" these days??
That was very clever ;-) annie_o
claresann ...@aol.com (AnnieO)
Or would you think that it was everybody else that wasn't quite right? Usually our standard for normal is what's normal for us.
Or when the "normal" people around them *convince* them or have them committed.
Or when the bottom falls out and even they have to admit that there's a problem. Life becomes unmanagable and all that...
annie_o
claresann ...@aol.com (AnnieO)
That is so weird, my husband was just talking about that a couple of days ago -
likening me to Patti Hearst. Am I so sympathetic that I would do things that I normally would find wrong?? Oh no, am I mentally ill?? ;-) Don't worry, we're not going to have you committed... And life's not all that unmanagable. My motto these days, walk softly but carry a clawed prybar. :-) annie_o
"Thraka" thr...@xenocide.org
No, I wouldn't say it was _necessarily_ so, but it's a very big red flag.
You would be surprised, honestly, at how easy it is to have the wool pulled over your eyes. I, for one, would recommend that if a spouse was showing strong signs that indicate a possible affair, the suspiscious spouse should do some checking.
Indeed. But it would be worth investigating, for him; if there is an affair, he will have little chance of repairing his marriage until it is dealt with. It's probably in his best interest to at least put enough effort into investigating it to be reasonably certain. Otherwise, he will keep trying to fix things, and have no idea why all his attempts are failing.
Thraka
claresann ...@aol.com (AnnieO)
Most likely... Hockey mask ;-) annie_o
jadelee111 ...@aol.com (Jadelee111512)
When being trained to practice marriage counseling, a requirement is a decent understanding of the contents of the DSM (diagnostic manual). One is also trained when it is appropriate to refer your client to a clinician who is better trained to deal with mental illness.
It is more important as a counselor to be able to recognize mental illness than it is to be able to treat it. One must be very aware of their scope of training. Knowing when to refer is crucial.
jadelee111 ...@aol.com (Jadelee111512)
What I have found is that drug use is higher amongst the higher degreed, well paid professionals. I have found that the higher degreed but not well paid professionals drink a lot :-)
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