unselfishness
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jon2233 jon2...@spamoff-prodigy.net
"The great fault of modern education has been that, with all its advanced methods of training children, it has missed what is most important: namely the lesson of unselfishness. Man thinks that an unselfish person is incapable of guarding his own interests in life; but however much it may appear so it is not so in reality. A selfish person is a disappointment to others, and in the end a disadvantage to himself. Mankind is interdependent, and the happiness of each depends upon the happiness of all, and it is this lesson that humanity has to learn today as the first and the last lesson." Sufi Inayat Khan, Education from before birth to maturity , Sufi Publishing Co.
1962, p 88-89 "...Maitreya is not going to force anyone to share, but He is going to talk about the necessity of sharing as the only way to produce a rational economic system which will create justice. It is the injustice of the present system which is bringing it to its knees. It is ending because the age which brought it into being has ended. It is a decaying, corrupt, crystallized form which does good to a few and to the many a great deal of harm. Of course it also does harm to the few to whom it seems to be doing good. It is poisoning, dividing, and threatening the world, so it has to go. All of this will be spelled out by Maitreya. If that does not inspire us with the idea of sharing, then nothing will." Benjamin Creme, Maitreya's Mission Vol III, Share International Foundation, 1997, p. 119
Bruce Morgen edi...@juno.com
"Sufi Inayat Khan" had and has nothing to do with the Benjamin "Clotted" Creme Maitreya cult.
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joesph jody...@home.com
[snip] Imaginary beings can't spell, and Benjamin Creme is a fraud bent on enriching himself as the expense of any patsies willing to believe in his fairy tale.
jon2233 jon2...@spamoff-prodigy.net
Right. And I'm an 11 foot gorilla writing this on my perch in a banana tree.
;-)
jody jody...@home.com
No, you're just some fool who believes in the imaginary beings and the con man who creates them.
jon2233 jon2...@spamoff-prodigy.net
Jody: Do you have a shred of evidence to support any of your allegations? I know that you believe what you say is true, but show me a shred of solid evidence to back it up, if you can. Also, do you believe in evolution? If so, where do you see yourself in a thousand years and what do you think those who are a thousand years or more ahead of us are up to? and do you think that in a thousand or more years you'll be living on an imaginary plane? Jon
jody jody...@home.com
[snip] The onus is on you "jon". You're the one promoting fairy tales about world saviors as some kind of fact. All I have to do is say: "Where is he?" You're the one that has to produce the guy.
The same goes for your "masters." Where's the beef "jon"?
Evolution happens as an ongoing process within the realm of name and form. We all exist as Brahman outside the realm of name and form, and if it is our goal to realize our nature as one with Brahman, we needn't resort to anything within the realm of name and form, including fantasies about supposed "evolved" beings.
It's all a con job to pump your ego up with the idea that you're "special" and "chosen" by the "masters" to help manifest the "divine plan".
It's all unnecessary bullshit jon. No one needs to prove that, it's self evident.
"Jonathan" jojenni...@lineone.net
Remember jon, the onus is on you. You're the one in the minority. When jody says -
our goal to realize our nature as one with Brahman, we needn't resort to anything within the realm of name and form, including fantasies about supposed "evolved" beings. It's all a con job to pump your ego up with the idea that you're "special" and "chosen" by the "masters" to help manifest the "divine plan".It's all unnecessary bullshit jon. No one needs to prove that, it's self evident.<<
- That's *self-evident(TM)* - she doesn't need to produce any evidence for that e.g. if you were to say "where is Brahman ?" or tell her that her "secret knowledge" of "Brahman" is all a "con job" to pump up her ego with the idea that she is "special" and that it's all unnecessary bullshit and that it's not her "understanding" but her fairy tale unrealistic and impractical "belief" - she doesn't need to provide evidence because she holds a normal majority "understanding" whereas you merely hold a minority "belief". (Obviously, when I use the terms 'majority' and 'minority', I'm not using them in a *Global* context - only in a 'Jody's favourite ngs on Usenet' context' which - let's face it - is the important thing).
Jonathan
jon2233 jon2...@spamoff-prodigy.net
I never said or thought that. Your quite jaded imaginings & ***umptions keep you away from reality, and in the confines of your comfort zone where you see only and exactly what you want to see.
Everyone will eventually help manifest the divine plan. We're all part of one huge family... everyone is ultimately an aspect of God and nobody is better than anyone else.
jon2233 jon2...@spamoff-prodigy.net
<snip> I couldn't disagree more. The information is presented and people are left free to do whatever they want with it. I don't care if they don't check it out or don't believe it. That is fine and to be expected. I happen to know that it is true and not fantasy... but I don't expect others to believe it, just because its been posted on the NGs... nor do I have any means of proofing the veracity of those claims. Suppose you had a beautiful daughter who could do something quite extraordinary, like say... levitate. Suppose that you mentioned this in a note on the NGs. If someone flamed your post and called you an insane lying idiot, would you be troubled? Surely you wouldn't give much of a damn what they think. You'd be able to see where they're coming from. I happen to know beyond the shadow of any doubts that there are Masters of Wisdom, who have guided man's evolutionary journey from behind the scenes for countless millennia. I've mentioned that on the newsgroups and have been lightly flamed for it and that's not surprising.. I don't care if people don't believe it, but my question to them is 'How can you be so sure that it is BS'?
:-) A mind which is really open and honest, would not forcefully declare without any supportive evidence, that such a claim (be it about a levitating daughter, about Masters of Wisdom, or anything extraordinary) is false. In my view an open mind might not believe it, but would have to consider that it is possibly true, even if the odds where extremely slight. So if someone were to tell me that they've traveled to other planets with space brothers, it would not be rational in my view for me to declare that they were full of BS (even though I might not believe them) since I have no way of ascertaining the legitimacy of their claim.
It would of course be an entirely different matter, if someone made an extraordinary claim and added that they could prove their claim, and failed to deliver as promised. I've never claimed to be able to prove for anyone that my observations are correct. That will have to be done by time, not me. As you probably know, most people (the majority) once thought that the world was flat, and that any attempts to go to sea would put one in the jaws of a horrible monster. Regards
jody jody...@home.com
It's not information. It's extraordinary claims that have no basis in fact.
Of course you don't. These claims have no veracity whatsoever.
You "know" about these "masters" because you've been "chosen" by them to do the good work and spread their "word". How could they not exist if they have chosen you?
I do believe there are astral beings trying to muddle. However, they are completely superfluous to any serious attempt at spiritual sadhana and they are powerless outside of their ability to dupe embodied people into working for them.
We've been waiting since the 80s I believe. Creme has missed all his deadlines.
Given his track record, I can be ***ured that your fantastic claims are just that, with no chance of becoming fact.
jody jody...@home.com
Quite correct, I did.
And believing such keeps you well within your comfort zone.
I couldn't agree more. However, Benjamin Creme and his "masters" have nothing to do with it.
Allen Crider allencri...@disciples.com
Benjamin Creme and his "masters" actually promote a crappy invisible spiritual one-upmanship. Creme places himself as the sole spiritual funnel of truth through which these phoney masters communicate their spam. Even Creme's notion of "masters" provokes the concept that some are better than others.
Were' left with Dotty spamming endlessly to do Creme's bidding, which is to get more money.
Bruce Morgen edi...@juno.com
Jonathan, I finally have you sussed -- you must have been cuckolded by an American hippy and have been a cranky, Yank-bashing, pseudo-
intellectual wannabe curmudgeon ever since. By the way, Benjamin Creme is a UK subject and certainly not a hippy, so I suppose his nonsense therefore has instant credibility. Then again, Creme isn't really the issue for you -- this thread was just an(other) opportunity to bash Jody, who seems to have you firmly by the short hairs without even trying.
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"Jonathan" jojenni...@lineone.net
Bruce - with websites like the above - you're hardly in a position to throw around accusations of "psudo-intellectual wannabe". I hope Jody values your chivalrous 'defence' of her. I could give a rat's *** about the fruit-loop Benjamin Creme. I just disliked Jody's rabble-rousing and hypocrisy.
Bruce Morgen edi...@juno.com
Hehehehe....Jody needs no defense, you just need an old fashioned arse-thrashing
-- but you're probably too densely occluded to notice it being administered.
Wait a minute -- you're bashing a fellow Brit. Alert the media! :-) You made those up, so I suppose it's perogative to dislike them! Jody's dead-
on correct about Creme, you seem to agree, but you found an excuse to bash anyway and used it. Talk about (utterly ineffective) "rabble-rousing and hypocrisy!" __________________________________________________ http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
"Jonathan" jojenni...@lineone.net
It followed on naturally from your hypocrisy.
Well - as I told you - different people have different values - so what you will see as 'an old fashioned arse-thrashing' of me - different people will see the way different people see things.
Her 'rabble-rousing' and 'hypocrisy' are obvious from the posts I quoted where she played to the gallery in representing all of her beliefs and those of people like her as "self-evident" and in no need of 'proof' where of course "jon"'s beliefs are supposed to be in a different category. She's added to hers since with astral forces etc. It will be clear enough to people outside her fawning fan-club.
Bruce Morgen edi...@juno.com
Especially if it helps the ego save face.
Jody is not writing from the standpoint of "beliefs," and that's why your ongoing and adolescent drum-beating for subjectivity uber alles is so funny in situ.
You're just jealous because you haven't been able to attract one, "fawning" or otherwise. If Jody showed the slightest sign of admiration or appreciation for you, you'd be beside yourself with self-satisfied delight instead of bashing. Let's not succumb to hypocrisy
-- you demand agreement on and in your own terms, when you don't get that you bash.
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jody jody...@home.com
[snip] Silly goose! It's not a contest of beliefs, although I understand why you see it as such.
The question is, are invisible masters necessary to a spiritual practice.
The answer is no. Creme and his minions say yes, you need the masters, the world needs the masters, to make any progress.
Creme et. al. propose that a world messiah (aka Maitreya) will come to get us to accept a system of world communism. It will never happen, although the idea is quaint.
As far as your brilliant observations are concerned, once again I'm cowering in the corner, pinned into silence by your stunning insight as to my thoughts and motives.
What more can a poor girl do?
"Jonathan" jojenni...@lineone.net
Your original "notice me, notice me..." post (above) to me in this thread probably makes you "the king of relevance" in your own eyes but it was a cobbled together excuse for a load of abuse.
Well that sounds like an American definition from an American dictionary.
You want a list ? Making the accusation that my post was just a pretext to 'bash' Jody when yours (with all its warped historical allusions) fitted that description with respect to me. The accusation of "pseudo-intellectual wannabe" when you're responsible for websites like those etc.
You are evidently on drugs like Jody if you think that relates to the paragraph it appears next to.
1) She is writing from the standpoint of her beliefs and 2) Her 'subjectivity' is irrelevant to my original proposition (though you're too dim to differentiate).
Bollocks. The four ngs to which this is cross-posted are at the outer edge of my normal range of interest and the seven ngs to which Jody's other response to this "jon" were cross-posted are even further out. I've only ever had the misfortune of coming across her in three ngs -
alt.consciousness, alt.consciousness.mysticism and alt.meditation of which I'm no longer subscribed to two of them. We largely move in different areas of Usenet. I've only witnessed the embarr***ing spectacle of your whiny and contentless posts to me (solely ever as her "avenging angelic defender" long after she's pissed off) on two ngs from those three.
Jody admires me already - as do all dishonest people admire honest people -
as do you. My happiness is not dependent on dishonest people's admission of that fact.
You are regressing to childhood. I object to Jody's attempt to isolate "jon" as someone with a duty to produce evidence for his abnormal beliefs when she could not herself meet the test she imposes on him but is just exploiting her 'majority-view' status within a minority clique. She moans loudly enough when for instance her drug appetites place her in an afflicted minority but she has no ethical scruples about turning on other minorities when she temporarily thinks she has the 'whip-hand'. It's rabble-rousing and hypocritical but you're so lacking in ethical scruples it just comes down to your 'bash' and other primitive notions.
"Jonathan" jojenni...@lineone.net
I can see why you would want that to be the question Jody and if you listen to Morgena La Fey for too long I expect the question will become whatever you both prefer it to be but as I said in my first post -
To which you've added various of your other beliefs for which you'd have a problem providing the evidence you require of him e.g. -
...and...
You state your belief that we don't need 'invisible masters' as if it were a 'fact' (because it conflicts with your belief in our self-sufficiency since we 'all exist as Brahman' but you are in no better position to provide proof to confirm your belief (which if true falsifies his belief) than he is to provide proof to confirm his belief.
The world does not meet the conditions of the Buddhist prophecies for 'Maitreya' but that is irrelevant. You are not in the position of a scientist throwing the 'burden of proof' on an astrologer or UFOlogist.
You said that the last time but since you're a woman - I think we have to be realistic.
...by your stunning insight Turn to Bruce "guardian of all our morals" Morgen for heroic championing :) ?
Bruce Morgen edi...@juno.com
Are why now going to make believe that the O.E.D.
defines it differently? Earth to Jon: this is 2001, and English is no longer the property of the dons of Cambridge and Oxford -- and there are probably more English speakers on the Indian subcontinent than in Europe or North America.
I make no pretense of accomplishing anything other than adminstration of an arse kicking, that's been quite clear from the gitgo. I think the quality of your intellect falls well within the precinct of the self-evident.
Drugs have nothing to do with it -- perceptual state and the attendent insight into human nature do.
OK, we can agree to disagree on that, and I certainly understand how a hidebound ego at sea in unfamiliar waters would see it that way. You are not party to several key facts concerning Jodyji, so your attempt evaluate in terms of your conditioning is hardly surprising.
Your repeated copy and paste invocations of nonsense about "values" speaks for itself.
Translation: "I'm *way* out of my depth around her, but I'll be damned if I'll admit that!" I suggest beating a fast retreat to alt.idontgetit or wherever you're more comfortable and/or welcome.
Two down, one to go -- don't the door smack on the bum on the way out.
Indeed, excise "largely" from the above and we'll have an entirely sensible outcome.
As if I'm supposed to care about this trival detail?
Chest beating exercise noted with amusement.
Your "happiness" is entirely non-existent, that much is clear.
Is that so?
Oh, come now, you agree with Jody and simply didn't have the interest and/or guts to call nonsense what it is. Jody doesn't subscribe to any belief system whatsoever, Jody's testimony is entirely experiential as contrasted with the spam of 'treyabots, which is copy and paste hearsay from the most dubious source imaginable.
Jody has no particular "drug appetite," Jody simply acknowledges the possibility that certain substances can and do have a significant role for some people in their enquiry into the nature of consciousness. Noting Ramakrishna's use of marijuana isn't evidence that the noter is also a user or even an advocate.
Neither point is even remotely demonstrated here.
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jody jody...@home.com
[snip] Now that's irony!
"Jonathan" jojenni...@lineone.net
That's about as 'sensible' as you are capable of.
..take An excellent confession.
I saw a copy of 'Websters' in a cut-price booshop over here last week and had a look through but then I thought - "Since I'm not an American - Do I really need my dictionary to have pictures ?"
- and there Well in their opinion I expect that would be true.
"pseudo-intellectual Is "gitgo" in your dictionary ? I think the quality of your last sentence 'falls well within the "precinct" of the' pretentious.
'Ego' doesn't exist. You fantasized it.
Bullshit - her posts clearly outline her "beliefs". That you buy that they are true and so magically become facts instead is your problem but she has no better chance of producing proof that they are true than 'jon' I see no 'copy and paste' - you are confusing this thread with another you'd still like to exorcise your grudges over.
I'm not 'out of my depth' in the slightest. I p***ed through the 'New Age' phase years since. Disinterest does not equate to ignorance.
You have the depth of a teaspoon and never say anything remotely difficult to 'get'. Your websites are a farrago of cheesy commonplace borrowings from various of the ngs mentioned. You are an initiate of a gigantic world of fluff from which I have long since p***ed on.
What would you have to whine about then ?
Since there is a partial overlap in that I am interested in Yoga and Vedanta - 'largely' can not be 'totally' I don't write according to what you may or may not 'care' about. I simply respond to your "notice me, notice me..." posts.
Well you 'say' that but you can 'say' anything.
What you fail to grasp is that this is not my main stamping ground your miserable whingeing posts and any response I care to make to them are simply fouling your own nest. So however I behave - it just fouls your own nest more - which I derive great happiness from contemplating. In your mind - you are probably giving me the thrashing I so justly deserve in front of the ***embled company of New Agers but since none of them ever turn up on my screen - why should I care ? I can't lose. If I called you a ****-faced baboon just for the pleasure of making you go through your supercilious routine again - it makes no difference to me.
...
"Jonathan" jojenni...@lineone.net
Americans don't understand 'irony' Jody. Stick to repeats of 'The Three Stooges' and 'I Love Lucy' Sweet Pea before you get out of your depth.
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