The Meaning of Life for an Atheist
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"Raptor514" Raptor...@hotmail.NO-STINKING-SPAM.com
*******A.A. members: feel free to add to the listing below as you wish.
:-) Many Christians often argue that the lives of atheists are meaningless because we will not have eternal life, or that we are, in some way, missing the whole point. They claim that atheism leads inevitably to hopeless nihilism. This is perfectly understandable, given the Christian worldview.
If one believes that they will have eternal life in infinite bliss with the Almighty Creator of the Universe, then ordinary human things must look pretty stale by comparison. But there is a problem with the Christian worldview - it isn't true.
There is no Great Cosmic Meaning to life.
But so what? If you're not a Great Cosmic Being then why should you expect Great Cosmic Meaning? You're a HUMAN being, and that means you should be looking for HUMAN meaning.
Things like: 1) living every day of your life as if it were your last - because it could be.
2) helping your fellow humanity to better themselves - because this betters your own life and the lives of your loved ones.
3) raising good, decent children who love the world and all this life upon it.
4) not causing harm or hurting anyone needlessly, not ever.
5) doing volunteer work at a women's shelter, soup kitchen, or whatever (I met my wife while training to work as a rape crisis/suicide hotline counselor).
6) helping to free people of their religious shackles by being able and willing to present clear, reasonable arguments against religious insanity.
7) taking in a stray dog or cat, feeding and bathing them, and then, getting them NEUTERED so they don't make more stray dogs and cats (we've done this dozens of times and it's always easy to take an ad out in a paper and find a good home for an ex-stray, but always charge them $20 dollars or so to make sure the adopters really intend to care for the animal. We learned that lesson in a very, very painful manner).
8) going to school and getting an edu-mecation.
9) traveling and meeting all kinds of weird new people 10) jumping out of perfectly good airplanes with a big, cloth square strapped to your back.
11) finding a beautiful, loving, wonderful woman and making her yours (worked for me).
12) On and on and on it goes. Surely, you can think of your own meaningful experiences. If not, then your imagination is dead or you're reading this on an early Monday morning. :-) How can Christians say that all these things are meaningless just because they don't last forever? Look up "meaningful" in the dictionary and see if it says "only applies to things that last forever and always." Then ask yourself, is there any reason for me to believe my life meaningless, other than a bunch of false Christian ideas which I never should have accepted in the first place? Many atheists have to struggle long and hard with residual mysticism and leftover ideas that have no rightful place in anybody's mind.
I know I did. It's worth the fight. Never quit.
"The meaning of life is to make life meaningful." - Sartre.
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--Raptor514---aa#1855-----------------------------
"Clayton" cj...@optusnet.com.au
...or a guy if you're a woman or gay.
"Dan Fake" danf...@worldnet.att.net
Not me - I'm afraid of heights.
Working on it ...
OK.
- - -
Dan Fake, Pro-Humanist FREELOVER http://danfake.home.att.net
pan p...@psnwREMOVE.com
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:17:42 GMT, "Raptor514" It seems to me that all "Meanings to life" are wholly subjective in nature.
Inevitably, even theists have to come up with some subjective 'meaning' to life.
i.e.
Even *if* 'God' existed why should we feel that this is the 'final word', on the 'meaning' of existence?
One could just as well ask: "What is the meaning of God?", "Why does God exist?", "Is there no significance to anything beyond God?", etc.
pan
johac jha...@remove.ixpres.com
i suppose that my question is: Why does life have to have a meaning? Why not enjoy it for what it is. I do. I don't mean that selfishly either. I enjoy helping other people, being with them, in addition to most of the other things that you listed. (I never had kids.) I think that if life has a purpose, or meaning, it is simply to live.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782 It was the schoolboy who said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910).
Ww ...@aol.com (William Wingstedt)
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:17:42 GMT, "Raptor514" 13) Restore extinct species that are way cool, like Woolly Mammoths, that our predecessors had a hand in wiping out (and generally defeat mortality, 'cause it's such a drag) (Oh, and thanks for leaving #13 to be next...:)
"Raptor514" Raptor...@hotmail.NO-STINKING-SPAM.com
LOL. You're welcome. :-) Raptor514
"edward cooper" ECOOP...@cox.rr.com
You missed the whole point. The above things are nice, but the only meaningful objective act for a Chtristian is to worship his god; even Heaven is secondary.
Hell is for those who are satisfied with the points you made above.
"Raptor514" Raptor...@hotmail.NO-STINKING-SPAM.com
Why is that "objectively meaningful?" By what standard is it meaningful to grovel before your imaginary friend? You do realize, deep down, that your "God" is a figment of your mind don't you? Your worship of God is actually self-worship because your "God" is just a little voice in your head. And Heaven is just a pitiful wish. What part of any of that is "objective?" "Hell" is for people like you who are unable to present a real argument.
Raptor514
anrwl ...@hotmail.com (Andrew Lias)
Actually, I've always seen this as being the other way around. To me, increasing my personal store of knowledge actually *is* my primary goal, in life (yes, even ahead of relationships and the like). My career is just the thing that allows me to keep studying (both directly, in the form of educational material, and indirectly by keeping me comfortable enough that I can do so without the distractions of, for instance, having to scrounge for food).
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9/11/01 - Remember maky# SPONG!
anrwl ...@hotmail.com (Andrew Lias)
Which parts? A certain subset of my education applies to my career, but most of it is simply, and only, for my personal edification and interest. I doubt very much, for instance, that I'm going to find much application for what I've learned about cosmology in the world of database administration (which is what I do professionally), but I treasure that knowledge rather more than I do the knowledge of how to, let's say, index a table.
Why should I read "should" here? Are you implying that a majority usage is somehow equivilent to a moral mandate?
I've already told you, it is for increasing my personal store of knowledge -- I *like* learning as much as I can about as many things as I can, simply for the sake of having that knowledge. It is, in other words, an end in itself and not a means to an end, just as I've already stated.
Why does that seem so odd to you?
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9/11/01 - Remember maky# SPONG! SPONG! SPONG!
abnermi ...@earthlink.net (Abner Mintz)
"You know, don't take this the wrong way, but there are distinct simularities between Andrew Lias and my wife." :) "Though she doesn't put garnering knowledge above relationships (they're about par for her, I'd say), she does soak it up like a sponge on every possible topic. 'Everything is interesting!' she often says.
When she decided to become Jewish, she started reading, and three months later she knew details of minor things that the rabbi barely knew about, and won the synagogue trivia contest at a gettogether.
Right now, it's opera. When she's mined that dry, who knows what will be next?" "I tend to collect useful (and some not-so-useful) information, but I'm just not in her league." :)
magi ...@math.berkeley.edu (Arturo Magidin)
I can't speak for Andrew (nor do I think I need to), but I find your puzzlement.. well, puzzling.
Unless you are using "your education" to mean his specific formal education? Then you're out of luck. As I recall, he is an English major, working with computers. Not exactly a good fit.
But his response was pretty clear. He wants education for ->itself<-, not a means to an end, but in fact an end in itself, contrary to your original statement.
That does not mean your original statement is not true for many, if not most, people, but it is not an absolutely true statement.
Like Andrew, for example, I treasure acquiring knowledge for its own sake. I read about biology, physics, law, and history, among many others, for reasons that have absolutely NOTHING to do with my job. I do it because I want to know more, because I ->like<- knowing more. Because I enjoy learning new stuff. It is not a means to an end, it is an end in and of itself. For the same reason I read novels, I read Oliver Wendell Holmes' _The Common Law_. And if you can find any way in which that relates to being a mathematician, well, you're far smarter than I am.
====================================================================== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes") ====================================================================== Arturo Magidin magi...@math.berkeley.edu
bholl ...@hotmail.com (Brian Holly)
> Many Christians often argue that the lives of atheists are meaningless
> because we will not have eternal life, or that we are, in some way, missing
> the whole point. They claim that atheism leads inevitably to hopeless
> nihilism. This is perfectly understandable, given the Christian worldview.
> If one believes that they will have eternal life in infinite bliss with the
> Almighty Creator of the Universe, then ordinary human things must look
> pretty stale by comparison. But there is a problem with the Christian
> worldview - it isn't true.
Well, they sure do sometimes argue this way, but a little pushing reveals that there is nothing behind it. Specifically, when you ask why eternal life should be more meaningful than a finite one, they have no answer. Similarly, point out that God's having a purpose for your life is not at all the same as you having a purpose for you life.
God's plan may give a dimension of meaningfulness to the universe for him, but it has no logical connection with any meaningfulness we might find.
It's bad enough that some of these folks are willing to accept a canned, prefab "meaning" to their lives. What's worse, is that they don't even understand what its supposed to be. Actually, I don't think any of them has given any thougt to the issue of meaning in life. I think they just can't face death. - Brian
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