teen question
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dragonlady meho...@REMOVEpacbell.net
Last night DD#2 (age 17) missed curfew -- by 3 hours. This is a child who has been much worse in the past -- when she was 14 she routinely stayed out very long hours, including over night a few times. Now she seldom misses when she's supposed to be home by more than 1/2 hour. So I wasn't frantically worried, but I also wasn't happy. In many ways I was more frustrated by not knowing where she was, since when I reached the cell phone of the friend she'd said she was with, he said she wasn't there.
When she came in (1:30 am) she said she was sorry to have kept me up, and felt bad about that. (She knows I don't sleep until she is in.) She also volunteered that she was grounded (good guess!). Then she told me her friends had lied for her about where she was, so she wouldn't have to talk to me. (Don't bother mentioning that we have some problems, but things are SO much better than they used to be!) Now, here's the question: she asked me what I would have done if she had talked to me on the phone and told me she was going to blow off her curfew. Would I have yelled at her, and insisted on picking her up? Or would I have just been upset? I can't answer that. Given that she clearly made a decision to blow off curfew, I honestly don't know how I would have reacted if she'd called and said that -- I think I SHOULD be able to stay calm and just remind her of what her curfew is, but I'm not sure.
What do you think is the appropriate response to a teen calling home and telling you that they have no intention of being home when they are supposed to be?
meh
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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
"Rosalie B." gmbeas...@mindspring.com
I think I might have yelled, or at least played the guilt card big time (I don't like to do that, but if you are worried, there's nothing to be gained by concealing that fact.) I think though that it would be appropriate to ask why she'd made that decision. What was so important that she felt that it was worth your ire and being grounded. And what I would do then would depend on what she said.
(I would want to know that even after the fact too.) I would suspect that she was doing something that I didn't approve of
- and depending on my relationship with her that she might have lied about it. Because that's what she really did by not speaking to you.
She lied by proxy, and she made her friends lie for her.
But she's going to be an adult soon, and we have to let them go.
grandma Rosalie
dragonlady meho...@REMOVEpacbell.net
I DO play the guilt card -- the kids know I can't sleep until they are all home and in bed. (Well, I can with the 20 yo, provided I know when she's DUE home. But I still wake up if she isn't home when she says she's going to be!) I don't lay heavy on the guilt thing, but I do point out that their decisions cost ME sleep and worry.
I didn't ask her what she was doing; there is really no point in that, since if it is something I won't approve of, this particular child won't tell me the truth. (Her sister would, and her brother is unlikely to be doing anything of which I would not approve.) However, I DID ask her if it was worth being grounded for. She's still thinking about that.
She really still has some serious impulse control issues! Sometimes I still feel like I'm parenting a toddler!
I know; figuring out how much to let go of when is SUCH a challenge.
thanks.
meh
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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
Bruce and Jeanne bridgemany...@comcast.net
I went through this with my parents (many years ago) and I think I'm pretty much equivalent to this daughter of yours (while my older sister is your son and my older brother is your other child). My parents gave me a curfew because they knew I would be the one to 1) break it and 2) be doing something they didn't approve.
Anyway, at some point (maybe I was 17 or 18), I made plans to see a late movie and knew I was going to miss my midnight curfew. So, I told my parents that my friends were planning to see a late movie which ended after my curfew and guess what, they let me go! Is that what was happening with your daughter? Friends had plans which just started late?
Or was your daughter blowing the curfew for kicks because she thought it was too early? In either case, maybe a discussion is in order. It does seem like she's learning from this experience and she's maturing. Jeanne P.S., at what age did you let the 20 year old go without a curfew?
nicholas_theodora ...@urmc.rochester.edu (Nick Theodorakis)
On Fri, 23 May 2003 16:15:30 EDT, dragonlady [....] When I was a teen, we were allowed to call home to ask for an extension, as in: "I'm at so-and-so's house. Can I stay out another hour?" -and it was usually granted. I guess we didn't really consider it as "blowing off curfew" so much but rather as negotiating. But I also suppose that if we were prone to trouble then we might not have had that system.
Nick
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Nick Theodorakis nicholas_theodora...@urmc.rochester.edu
dragonlady meho...@REMOVEpacbell.net
But if your request had NOT been reasonable? She had tried to convince me to extend her time to midnight, and I'd said "no".
I can be persuaded to extend what time a kid is due home for all kinds of reasons, good and marginal. But I would not have accepted 1:30 a.m.
as an appropriate time to be home on a school night. When what the kids want is reasonable, or at least defensible, it isn't a problem; I'm not horribly rigid. It is when what they want to do is NOT reasonable that we have a problem.
meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
"Rosalie B." gmbeas...@mindspring.com
The two things that I thought of that would cause me the greatest angst in that situation were sex and drugs. Everything else is just not as terrible. And I've had both of those situations with my children (both of them with one of my children) and we lived through it and came out the other side OK.
Is she likely to lie if you ask her point blank about those things?
(I have one that tells you what you will be happiest to hear-for that one I take whatever is said with sceptical optimism.) If she would, then there's no point in asking, and you can only ***ume the worst.
And if it is sex that is the worrying point then I see no other solution than seeing to it that she is protected as much as possible from pregnancy and disease.
I'm sure she knows this, but I always wanted my children to know that no matter what they did, I still loved them and was still behind them.
Even if I disapproved of their actions and made them face the consequences. But at this age, it is often a matter of figuring out what kind of pressure will or won't work.
grandma Rosalie
Bruce and Jeanne bridgemany...@comcast.net
Two questions: was that a one-time extension to midnight or a permanent curfew set at midnight? why did she ask to stay until midnight?
If it was a one-time request for a legitimate reason I may have been persuaded to agree. If she was calling to ask for a permanent curfew set at midnight, obviously it wouldn't be granted over the phone.
But I thought she asked for midnight? I agree that 1:30 am is not an appropriate time for a school night and by staying out that late probably justifies the earlier curfew. She's not ready for self-regulating behavior.
My guess is that *she* thinks it's reasonable and it's up to you to tell you why it's not. Or lead her through an exercise showing why what she wants isn't possible (e.g., coming home at 1:30 am would leave her with how many hours of sleep? is it even legal for her to drive that late at night?) Jeanne
dragonlady meho...@REMOVEpacbell.net
Just blowing it off because she didn't WANT to be in at 10:30. (Actually, if she were more reliable about being in when I tell her to be in, I'd let her stay out until 11:00, even on a school night -- as long as she gets up and goes to school, I don't care how late she goes to bed, and I'm usually up until 11:00. Now, when I DO let her go out again, I am likely to move her curfew to 9:00, so if I have to track her down when she misses curfew, I can.) It isn't that simple; it was more a gradual loosening of the ties. She graduated from high school at 17. When I started letting her stay out later than I could stay up, we would lock the front door and leave the slider into the master bedroom open, and she'd wake me when she got in
-- I still can't sleep deeply until she's in.
At some point that fall (her birthday is in September) she started staying out all night, calling to let me know that's what she was doing. When it started happening Real Often, I asked her what SHE thought was reasonable, and she said "Twice a week." I said OK. After that, she only stayed out about twice a month!
She lived in an apartment briefly, and when she came back home we were able to reach what feels like the right balance for us: she tells me when she'll be home, and if it changes, she calls. And when she comes in, she still comes in to let me know she's in the house. A few nights ago, she had expected to be home by midnight, but called around 10 to say she'd decided to have a few beers, so she'd stay for several hours instead. She came in around 3:00, which gave her plenty of time to be sober before she drove. (Yes, I know she is not yet the legal drinking age; anybody out there think that really stops many 20 year olds?) I have a brother who is an alcoholic (sober for going on 20 years now). When he came home after 2 years in the army, he was real bad. After Mom tripped over him p***ed out on the kitchen floor one morning (and had to clean him up before she got the younger kids up for school) she told him that she would not, under any circumstances, subject our brother and sister to that sort of sight. If he was too drunk to get himself into bed properly, he was to stay out all night -- but he was to call, so she wouldn't worry. And he always did. Mom says he was the most reliable of us about that! I think back to that, and to how my mother lived with me when I was 19 and living at home and in college, when I try to figure out the best way to handle different situations -- it is a difficult transition, but a necessary one.
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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
Banty Banty_mem...@newsguy.com
OK I have to ask - how much of these curfew issues derive from the impacts on yourself for worry, and how much on what your daughters really need? Yes, I understand about your 17 year old, but if your young adult daughter of 20 is beholden to make sure you don't worry, perhaps you need to look at making this transition to parent of an adult child more complete for yourself emotionally.
Banty
mitref ...@aol.command (Barb)
That's how I am, too. I think I can deal better with knowing where they are, and they are ok, than letting my imagination take hold and worrying. The worrying drives me nuts.
With my son, I tried to give him the independance he needed. My older daughter hasn't caused any stress about curfews or coming home since she hit teenhood.
(I don't think she's ever had a curfew, and I didn't, either.) She was my worry as a toddler, and got it out of her system by the time teenhood came. My youngest one is more like her brother - easy going tot, so at 10, I can see she's starting to contradict me, question my every judgement, etc... her teenhood is going to be LONG!
--
Barb
mitref ...@aol.command (Barb)
17 is such a difficult age! I am very grateful that DD#1 is so much more grounded than her brother was, but I think I'll be in for a hard time with the youngest.
I really don't know what to say that would help, because it's all so different from kid to kid - as you can see. I think she will continue to test you, and you'll try to keep her in line, but there seems to be no magical key that works.
When my son was 17, the police said he could come and go as he pleases, but the child welfare people came after me because someone said he was staying at a friend's house in the town that he went to school too much. They told me that he's my responsibility until he's 18, and I'm accountable for him. That paradox drove me nuts until he turned 18. He had a full time job and was in school when he was 18, and left on his birthday.
I wish you a lot of luck with your daughter. I hope you find just the right thing that works with her!
--
Barb
dragonlady meho...@REMOVEpacbell.net
With the 17 year old, she's still making some crappy decisions; she's doing a LOT better, but I still feel the need for some control.
With the 20 year old, this *is* a complete transition to how I would treat any other adult with whom I was living. When my parents are staying with us, I don't sleep well until they are in at night, either. And when DH has to work late and I don't know when he'll be done, I fall asleep as soon as I hear his car in the driveway -- until then I just doze. (If I'm expecting him at, say, 3 a.m., I sleep well until about 3:10 -- then I wake up and can't go back to sleep until he's home.) My kids understand this as just one more way in which Mom is Wierd. It isn't a decision on my part -- it's just the way I'm wired. But I don't think it is unreasonable for adults who live together to let each other know when they will be in (roughly) and when they are spending the night away from home. I wouldn't go away for the night without telling my 20 year old; heck, I don't even go out for the evening without telling her, or leaving a note telling her where I'm going and roughly when to expect me home. I am just expecting the same consideration from her.
meh
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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
Bruce and Jeanne bridgemany...@comcast.net
This is how my parents were/are. We discovered (at around 18) that if we told them the approximate time we were coming home, they wouldn't worry so much. If we, however, said nothing and then we weren't home by our "curfew" (usually midnight), they were terribly worried and never went to bed. And then they would scold us.
So, we always told our parents, even after we moved out of the house but were back for a visit, what time we were most likely coming back. I think it's just common courtesy.
Jeanne
"Rosalie B." gmbeas...@mindspring.com
My mom has only just stopped insisting that I call her after I get home from visiting her. Actually for a long time, she insisted that someone go with me when I would drive for any long distance. That is, when I lived in Norfolk and came home for a visit, someone would have to go to Norfolk on the bus in order to drive back up with me and the kids. I thought she was over-protective, but there was no point in arguing with her about it.
I don't actually remember having any particular curfew when I was a teen, but of course I didn't drive the family car, and most of the time when I went somewhere on a date it was to a specific location or function. I seem to remember mom or dad speaking to my date and informing them when I was expected to be home. I always had 'mad money' with me which was supposed to be so that I could use a pay phone to call home in case my date got overactive (or drunk) - we didn't have cell phones in those days. [The name was from - going off mad] I lived at home for a period between when we lived in Philadelphia and when we moved to RI. It was a period of about 2 years, and I had 3 kids then. But I never went anywhere that I would be out late so it never came up. I mean - it was just like being a single parent [dh was deployed most of the time] except that I had these two other people to help out.
And I don't remember having any curfews for any of my kids either.
But the girls didn't date much - they were too involved with their horses and didn't have time for it. I know dd#1 had a date for the prom with some guy she never dated before or after that (he was perfectly nice - he just wasn't someone she went out with). And I know ds went to the prom. I'm not sure about the middle two - I think they must have gone but I can remember who they went with.
But I didn't have a problem with impulsiveness with my kids - quite the opposite. I did often have sleepless nights when ds was out late
- by the time he was a senior in hs he was an ***istant manager of a local pizza joint and was doing the closing of the business at night (even on school nights) and I used to doze and listen for sirens at night. But I confess I couldn't stay awake until they were home.
grandma Rosalie
LisaBell lisabell...@yahoo.com
On Sat, 24 May 2003 20:22:34 EDT, dragonlady I don't think that's weird at all. We always had a similar arrangement in our home, where my sister and I lived way after our teen years and through college. At first we would be expected to tell mom when we came in, waking her up if she was asleep; later we developed a system where she left a hall light on and whoever was out last switched it off, so she could wake and tell instantly if we were all home.
--Lisabell
Bruce and Jeanne bridgemany...@comcast.net
Proving once a mom, always a mom...
My parents did a variation on this as well. They didn't seem to mind when I was single that I drove alone from NC or DC (wherever I was living at the time) to Philly for a visit. But *after* I got married and had a child, then they were concerned if I drove up with just my daughter (if for example, DH needed to work on the house and we didn't want DD around to play with hammers and nails). They were the same way with my sister, although it was marginally better if my sister and I (along with whatever children) came together. My brother, on the other hand, could visit my parents without wife and kids without any comment (other than disappointment at not seeing them). I think my parents had some weird concern about a married woman driving a long distance by herself.
Like you, I think they were a bit over-protective and it's a quirk so there's really nothing we can do about it. We almost always call after getting home. Again, common courtesy - it's to let them know we got home safely and to thank them for the visit.
Jeanne
"Rosalie B." gmbeas...@mindspring.com
>> My mom has only just stopped insisting that I call her after I get >> home from visiting her. >Proving once a mom, always a mom...
My problem is that she won't phone ME after she gets back from some trip (and she's still driving and still traveling at almost 94). I don't really worry most of the time and I don't always know where she's gone of course unless she thinks to tell me, but sometimes it would be nice to know that I don't have to monitor the traffic accident reports in the area.
She's been driving for almost 80 years - started when she was 14 on a model T.
There really was no time after college before I got married when I was driving by myself, so I didn't observe this. And of course this was in the days way before cell phones. Maybe it's just that the female person is driving THEIR GRANDCHILDREN!!!
I drive the 100 or so miles to see her about every 2 weeks. I usually call my dh on the way home to let him know my approximate schedule. My mom gave me my first cell phone for Xmas after I was in an accident at the end of November 1991 on the way to go out to dinner with her.
I wasn't hurt, but the car was totaled and it took awhile to figure out how to get in touch with her or to her house (let alone get home).
grandma Rosalie
rob ...@nautilus.shore.net (Robyn Kozierok)
I don't have teens yet. But I think I would have been very worried not knowing where she was, so I think I would have thanked her for letting me know she was safe, and told her that there would be consequences for missing curfew.
I would also think about why you have the curfew you have (I never had one -- it was on a case-by-case basis, fwiw) and whether your consequences for missing it are sufficient. Since she chose to take the consequences instead of coming home on time, I'd say that the consequences are not enough to motivate her to obey her curfew. But ideally, I think you want your teens to be "internally motivated" rather than obeying out of fear of the consequences. Which gets back to why you have the curfew, and why, from your teen's point of view, she should follow it.
Good luck!
--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)
mar ...@aol.com (MarjiG)
My Mom used the one light per kid method. If 3 of us were out, she'd turn on 3 lights. Each of us would turn one off when we got home. My kids aren't old enough yet for this to be an issue, but I'm sure I'll be one who can't sleep well until they are in.
-Marjorie
dragonlady meho...@REMOVEpacbell.net
My mom set an alarm clock in the bathroom, and the last one in turned it off. Lord help us if it woke her up!
This was a particular challenge for her, as she had babies when I was 16 and 18 -- so at one point she had 4 teenagers, a toddler and an infant. Loss of sleep was MAJOR issue.
Recently, when we were all together, she asked us if we ever collaberated to turn it off for each other. Strange as it may seem, it had never occurred to us to do that. I think we all understood that this wasn't so much about control as it was about Mom's need for security and sleep. If we had ever done that, and she had found out, she just would not have been able to sleep until we were all in for the night.
meh
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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
margal ...@yahoo.com (chiam margalit)
My mom alwasy slept through whatever we did, too. It was my dad who was the evil parent. His method was so cruel that it should have been reported to child social services. :-) We had a burgler alarm that not only guarded all doors and windows, but was full of motion detectors. At 11 pm, my father would set the alarm. None of the kids ever knew the alarm code, so it we got home after curfew, we had to ring the doorbell to get in. Bad, not the worst is yet to come. My father would answer the door *in his underwear* so that you could never get off a good night peck... he would stand there glaring at us in his boxers and undershirt. It was truely horrible. :-) :-) Marjorie
Louise lou...@wellingtonhouse.org
In article <mehouck-47EFE3.12561923052...@newssvr16-ext.news.prodigy.com>, Well, it's almost two questions: what would I do if this actually happened when I wasn't expecting it? and what would I say if asked about it hypothetically when I had time to think? If she asked me what I would have done if she phoned, (how I'd *want* to react) I might say that I'd be glad to know she was safe, and that I'd ask about her plans for getting home. (when and how) (I'd also remind her that we'd rather hear she was staying over, than have her get a ride with someone she didn't feel safe with.) In real life if I didn't have any time to prepare myself and I was worried, I'd probably start giving her a hard time about her morning commitments and point out that she should have called earlier.
We don't have a fixed time curfew. We have a rule about checking in (where they are going and when they will be home) which is almost always respected, and we tend to volunteer opinions (nag?) about appropriate schedules for schoolnights (which stop having the force of restriction around age 17- 18). Louise
"Heather W." ickys...@lycos.com
On Fri, 23 May 2003 16:15:30 EDT, quoth the dragonlady <meho...@REMOVEpacbell.net> : Would it be possible to drop the "curfew" thing, or push it back some, but make that contingent upon her checking in? It seems you're more interested in being sure she's safe than being sure she's in the house, so playing the "I'm going to call 9pm a curfew but only start worrying if you're not home at 9:30 game" seems even less likely to make her comply. You could even have two curfews - the "must call Mom and let her know where I am and that I'm okay" curfew and the "must be in for the night" curfew. Just a random thought from someone who knows she won't have to worry about this from the parenting angle for quite a while yet!
Heather W Policy Board for proposed misc.kids.family-life CFV (voting) appearing now in a news.groups near you!
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To email me (and be read) use: heather @ operamail dot com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Much madness is divinest sense | Mom to Rowan Justina (11/6/97) To a discerning eye -Dickinson | Woman of many talents to myself.
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