Justice League of America
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"Douglas Hancock's News" hancocd...@scs.vuw.ac.nz
Does any one know why the decision was made to go from Justice League International to the Justice League of America again? The title JLA seems a bit anacronistic given the League routinely faces threats to the safety of the whole world. Does the title JLA imply the League would put the interests of America over other countries? I would be curious to see if the League would have supported American policy in something controversial such as the Vietnam conflict...if the JLA saw American soldiers torching a suspected Vietcong village containing many elderly and children would they intervened or just stayed out of the issue entirely as being inappropriate for them?
Enough rambling...
Bill Svitavsky wsvitav...@rollins.edu
I seem to recall it was the decision of Grant Morrison (a Scot!) on the basis of tradition. I'm a lifelong JLA fan, but I'd have been happier if they'd kept the title JLI; it does seem more appropriate for the scope of the team. Perhaps non-Americans are just more aware of the particularly American character of super-heroes; consider that Alan Moore's line is "America's Best Comics".
- Bill Svitavsky
joncl ...@aol.com (Jon Clark)
Based on the caliber of heroes DC has created from foreign countries, I think the Justice League added America back to it's name to emphasize they are competent heroes you can rely on.
This is not a slam on any real life people- let me make that perfectly clear.
No slander of any real nationality is intended.
I'm quite sure that in the "real" world you could have a Superman or Batman stature hero arise outside the US (***uming superhumans existed). But somehow DC rarely shows that- most of the non-US heroes were seconf string at best and the Giffen era reduced the Global Guardians to jokes and cannon fodder.
And besides ANYTHING that keeps you from connecting this team to the Giffen era has to work in their favor in the DCU. I mean how safe would you feel if the team protecting your world boasted of G'Nort, Beefeater, Guy Gardner, etc as members.
jayem ...@my-deja.com
Morrison wasn't the one who made the change, because the name was JLA before he came on the title.
When the Giffen book started, it was simply JUSTICE LEAGUE for the first half-dozen or so issues. At that point, it changed to JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL. Within the next year, they started up JUSTICE LEAGUE EUROPE, and it didn't make sense for them to divide the group between "Europe" and "International", so after a short while JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL changed its title (again) to JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA (no "of"). It stuck with this title for the rest of its run. At some point, JUSTICE LEAGUE EUROPE changed title to JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL for the rest of its run (it died before JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA did).
So the last surviving title prior to Morrison's book (or rather, the MIDSUMMER NIGHTMARE mini that preceded it) was JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA, not JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL.
--- jayembee (Jerry.Boyaj...@eds.com) "You say that you want to go back to this place, Earth. A place that you tell me has so much disease and suffering." "Well, you guys don't have chocolate." Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Arkady ark...@hotbot.com
Well, I'm not American, so I'll take the liberty of presuming it was just plain good old-fashioned nationalistic idiocy. [oh yeah, I'm making enemies today] The title is probably supposed to cater to those US readers who feel that Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Aquaman are all perfectly good examples of the true American hero, when, come to think about it, none of them is really American (Supes comes closest, having grown up there), of the same caliber of personality as wrestling fans (wrestling, you know, the so-called sport that seems to make a habit of villifying damn near every last non-American athlete it can get a hold of).
Obviously, most other people won't really care (and say, hey, it's an American product, maybe that's all the reason for it being called JL America).
Me, I rather doubt that if there really was a Wonder Woman or Aquaman, either of them would like their Justice League to have a name that implies they're there exclusively for just the kind of morons who keep chanting "USA, USA" during wrestling event because they actually thing it's cool to pretend you hate Canadians, but what do I know? I'm Austrian, so obviously, I must be a Haider-loving... you know the rest.
[if a "yerk" appears to call others yerks in a very yerkish fashion, could it be cynism gone overboard just to make a point?] Anyway, JLI would have been the better choice of title, if you could follow what i was trying to say.
Arkady
okid ...@look.ca (Orion)
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:03:35 +1300, "Douglas Hancock's News" They explain it away as an homage to tradition (see the Secret Files interview with J'onn). Funny thing, though, recent comics about the JLA have had to dance around this issue a lot. If you believe Waid's JLA: YEAR ONE (which I know that many don't) the inclusion of the last two words of the name "of America" were added by Black Canary, because she was such a drooling fan-girl of the JSA.
For myself, I'm happy that someone had the presence of mind to say, 'hey, this is a fighting force that responds to global threats as well as domestic ones, maybe the name is a little inappropriate?'. I'd have preferred they just changed the name to "The Justice League", instead of, frankly, inventing excuses to leave the name as it is. However, I recognise that there is something to be said for tradition, not to mention name-recognition. As a non-American it doesn't really bother me that much. They've shown that they're aware of the issue. That's enough for me.
fan I'm...@thisaddress.com
True enough. But *I'm* not going to be the one who takes Superman aside and tries to explain that to him.
"Look, Clark, we're changing the team's name, period. And while we're on the subject, could you knock off all that 'Truth, Justice, and the American Way' stuff? It's really annoying. I mean, I know it's *your* ideal for some stupid reason, but it just strikes me as silly and inappropriate." Me, I prefer my teeth staying in place.
Bottom line? I'm guessing that Superman wants to call it the Justice League of America, that Batman likes it too, and that no one else is going to tell them otherwise.
m ...@mediaone.net (Michael S. Schiffer)
Though the organization, AFAIK, was still calling itself the JLI, with Justice League America being a subdivision. (Was the Europe team disbanded or simply no longer starring in a book?) In any case, while the convoluted history of the DCU confuses the issue, it's appropriate for the current group to call itself the Justice League of America, because that's what the team with a primary lineup of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman and the Martian Manhunter called itself. (Just as the group with Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, and the successors of their original teammates appropriately calls itself the JSA rather than trying to update the name.) Just as it's possible for the JLA and JSA to coexist, I don't think it would be a terrible idea for there to be an active JLI with a more fluid membership. (There would probably be some problems on the marketing level with potential confusion, so perhaps replacing "league" with some other word would be a good idea.) But I don't see anything wrong with the cl***ic team continuing to refer to itself as the JLA when facing cosmic threats, given that that's what they've always called themselves when facing cosmic threats. (Of course, it'd be better if DC weren't married to the 12-year timeline and could acknowledge that the team chose its name at a time when "Justice League of America" seemed more natural than it does now, but that's another argument...) Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS If reading in an archive, please do m...@mediaone.net not click on words highlighted as links mschi...@condor.depaul.edu by Deja or other archives. They violate the author's copyright and his wishes.
Bill Svitavsky wsvitav...@rollins.edu
I'm guessing Batman would actually prefer "The Justice League of Everywhere Outside of Gotham, Which Is Batman's Exclusively". But JLEOGWIBE is kind of awkward as an acronym.
- Bill Svitavsky
"Michael D. Ward" mw...@ms.uky.edu
Their are lots of orginazations with America in their names: The American Red Cross, the American Civil Liberties Union, The American Broadcasting Company, and so on.
Just because they have "America" in their names does not mean that they have to support US political policy in every way.
Would an ABC reporter who saw American soldiers torching a Vietcong village say "well no need to report this, after all I work for the AMERICAN broadcasting company." Likewise the JLA is not placed under any special obligation to the US government by its name. Of course the JLA can't do anything that is a violation of US law while operating in the US (but its members can't vilolate the laws of Chile when they are in Chile either.) Personally, the only thing I find annoying about the name is that DC seems to be so ashamed of it. Choosing the title JLA over "Justice League of America" seemed to show that DC was trying to get the word America out of the title. If they want to take "America" out of the JLA and call it Justice League International that's fine but the current solution seems to be a cop out.
I was a bit suprised by the upcoming event were the JLA has to find out want the "A" stands for since it draws more attention to the fact that it is the "Justice League of AMERICA".
But in any event it seems a very petty point any way you slice it. I'm not going to get upset either way. DC can call it JLA , JLI , JL or Middle-aged Justice for all it really matters.
Michael
okid ...@look.ca (Orion)
Actually, it's kind of funny how much of flag-waving aspect of Superman's character has been removed. He almost -never- says "... and the American Way" anymore, ever. Usually, it's "truth and justice", concepts that nobody can argue with. Frankly, in this day and age, even patriotic Americans tend to find the notion of the "American Way" a little outdated. I mean, whose is 'The' American way? What ethnic group? What social cl***? What level of income? It's a big country with a lot of different people in it. The spirit of individual freedom says that people all act differently. Is -that- the American way? The phrase, despite it's rhetorical strength, is kind of empty. (Which is
-not- to say that American culture is empty, not at all. I'm merely commenting on the phrase, not the thing it's supposed to represent.)
okid ...@look.ca (Orion)
On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:01:59 -0500, "Michael D. Ward" I think the issue is that the JLA functions as an international organisation. It almost exclusively responds to international threats, as opposed to the American Red Cross, which operates within the US (unlike the Canadian Red Cross, which operates in Canada exclusively).
I would ***ume that there's also an International Red Cross.
I agree. It -is- a bit of a cop-out. Make a decision and stick with it.
Thank you for puting that in. I does my heart good to know that other people don't get twisted in knots over this stuff either. It's worth discussing, but not worth wasting as much energy on it as we (all of us) sometimes do.
johnb ...@aol.com (John B 821)
If Wonder Woman has a problem with being seen as American, she needs a new outfit.
wolvor ...@toledolink.com (Wolvorine)
On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:39:08 GMT, Bill Svitavsky Well, it's "Justice League *OF* America", not "Justice League *FOR* America". Why, seeing as how they have an Amazon, a Martian, and an Atlantean? Beats me, but I'm a Traditionalist, and I like JLA better than JLI, even if it is less globally politically correct. :) But no, the name shouldn't be taken to mean that they are America-First, I would hope.
Wolvorine -
"And Sir Victor, in his anguish, cried out that the Lord was a rotten bastard." Monty Python's Contractual Obligation Album "We can start with the fact that you're a sulfur-sucking demon trying to kill me." The Immortal
jdv_maxi ...@my-deja.com
I seem to recall it was the decision of Grant Morrison (a Scot!) on the ...Yes, but he will kill without pity if his Pentagon masters order it, read the back of Earth 2 :) Actually I liked the title recently used in B.B. The JLU.
How about Justice Leg. ***ociation? Perhaps the last word doesn't fit well, but then you could still use JLA. Myself, I really like the name, Legion of Superheroes. Sounds really cool to call the members Legionnaires.
In article <3A593612.D4331...@rollins.edu>, Bill Svitavsky <wsvitav...@rollins.edu> wrote: Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
phoenix ...@my-deja.com
Don't forget, Wondy still has that red, white, blue, and gold costume--
hey, why aren't her shorts considered flag desecration?
I personally prefer (and use for my RPG campaign) just plain "Justice League".
Jim Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
fan I'm...@thisaddress.com
Actually, I always sort of figured that was the point. You know, the Founding Fathers being *revolutionaries* and all that, striving to create a country free from orthodoxy, with neither a ruling nobility nor a state religion; working to build a nation where questioning authority would be a secure right and never an act of treason.
In short, it would be a place where patriotism *consists* of being skeptical of an "American Way," but striving all the same toward ideals of freedom and equality, as well as, y'know, truth and justice. Kinda like Superman.
prestor ...@aol.com (Prestorjon)
<<Their are lots of orginazations with America in their names: The American Red Cross, the American Civil Liberties Union, The American Broadcasting Company, and so on.
Just because they have "America" in their names does not mean that they have to support US political policy in every way>> But the American Red Cross is a subsidiary of the International Red Cross, the ACLU is an organization devoted to protecting human rights in AMERICA, and ABC is a channel based in America and marketed primarilly towards Americans, I don't think anyones suggesting that they have to support the policies of the American government (or in the example given above individual agents of said government). What people are saying is that naming your organization the Justice League OF AMERICA (as opposed to Justice Leageu International or even just Justice League) is a conscious choice that says something about your organization and what it stands for.
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He had been our Destroyer, the doer of things We dreamed of doing but could not bring ourselves to do, The fears of years, like a biting whip, Had cut deep bloody grooves Across our backs.
-Etheridge Knight
prestor ...@aol.com (Prestorjon)
<<Don't forget, Wondy still has that red, white, blue, and gold costume--
hey, why aren't her shorts considered flag desecration?>> According to one story I read it literally is flag desecration. A fighter pilot who crashed on Paradise island helped the Amazons out fighting a demon and after she was killed the Amazons made armor incorporating some of the items they found in he rplane including an American flag.
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He had been our Destroyer, the doer of things We dreamed of doing but could not bring ourselves to do, The fears of years, like a biting whip, Had cut deep bloody grooves Across our backs.
-Etheridge Knight
Franfreluche val...@total.net
You got the American Red Cross? It must be a subdivision of the Red Cross that is an international organisation. And your two other names must operate only in the USA.
No, but mostly that mean that their field of activity is link to the country or in the case of America to the continent.
I don't really care either if it's JLA or JL or JLI but I think Justice league of American does not make a lot of sense the way the the team operate. Anyway, a good story is always better than a good name with no good stories:D Franfreluche
okid ...@look.ca (Orion)
Why do you think the removed the eagle?
Duggy tayva...@my-deja.com
The J-L-A title has a little more bite than the title JUSTICE LEAGUE.
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- Dug.
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I didn't do it, Nobody saw me do it, You can't prove anything.
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Duggy tayva...@my-deja.com
I always ***umed it was freedom and individuality... but never saw why that was particularly American.
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- Dug.
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I didn't do it, Nobody saw me do it, You can't prove anything.
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Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
okid ...@look.ca (Orion)
You know, I really like that. If I wasn't aware of the atrocious history of forced conformity in North America (*which includes my own home country*) I'd almost believe that's actually what people mean when they say "The American Way". But seriously, I like your interpretation. Heck, I even respect it! More than I can say for a lot of ideologies I hear about.
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