Graduation???
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"mike" mpet...@castlerockinfo.com
In all of the books so far, no mention is ever made of a "Graduation Ceremony" Is this just a U.S. custom not observed in English Schools?
Or is it a separate ceremony held for graduates after the other students have already left, and as such we have not seen this yet through Harry's eyes?
Or has JKR just omitted this for reasons unknown?
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"Diamond Dove" DiamondD...@ntlworld.com
Certainly in my school, we never had a graduation ceremony when we left at 18. There was an optional leaver's dinner, but that was a bit of a flop....
We definitely have very formal graduation ceremonies on leaving university with gowns etc etc...
DD *-*
"Pluto \(M\)" plu...@nospam.flash.net
Exactly. British folk don't have 'graduations.' They just leave. :)
Kathryn Hunter dapurplep...@yahoo.co.uk
We dont normally have a graduation ceremony because it isnt a case of p***ing high school or not p***ing high school. You do different exams on different subjects, you can p*** one and not the rest or whatever. So its really not a British custom.
We did have a formal tho, which is *like* a prom just not on the same scale kathryn
shutup_cart ...@remove.hotmail.nospam.com.now (Allen the Magic Goose)
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:01:13 -0600, "mike" I think the US goes a little overboard with these things :) Whole pomp and all Graduation ceremonies for high school... as if graduating HS were an achievement. Come on now...
And then I've even seen primary school graduations... yay the kid p***ed 6th grade :) and of course why stop there... they covered a kindergarden graduation on the 6 o clock news last spring... (big ceremony with flatboards and diplomas...).
It's tacky...
Allen
Chris Share ch...@caesium.freeserve.co.uk
Over here, graduation happens when you graduate from university, not before.
And since there are no wizard universities, none of the characters will ever graduate.
chris
Kaare Fiedler Christiansen fied...@daimi.au.dk
This may show my Newbie colours, but how do we know there are no wizard universities. I mean, are the teachers called "professor" solely because they teach? If so, why do we never hear about "Professor Hagrid". Sure, Harry would never call him that, but wouldn't the rest of the cl***?
Best Kaare
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"Rain Forests" within_the_rain...@NOSPAM123india.com
On , Kaare Fiedler Christiansen <fied...@daimi.au.dk> a pris la plume pour dire : /took the quill to say : The book is written from Harry's eyes. He knew Hagrid before he became a teacher, so there is no reason for him to call him "professor"
Kaare Fiedler Christiansen fied...@daimi.au.dk
He would still hear the rest of the cl*** say "Professor Hagrid", though. Please read what I wrote again, you will see I already anticipated this response...
Best Kaare
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Chris Share ch...@caesium.freeserve.co.uk
I can't remember where, but in an interview somewhere JKR said there aren't any unis.
chris
Jeff Thomas jtho...@fyi.net
If you had known some of the kids I went to school with, you'd realize that p***ing those courses _was_ a big achievement for some of them. We did't have anyone held back.
All in all though, you are right, we do go a tad overboard. They even had a "graduation" for my son from pre-school (age 4) complete with cardboard hats and garbage bag gowns. But none since then (he's almost fourteen now in his eigth year). He starts Highschool next year.
Regards, Jeff
Shane McDaniel sha...@nospam.ll.mit.edu
I would imagine that much like in olden times your title was dictated by a certain level of expertise in a certain art or area. Merlin was considered a Master magician and surely a professor if he ever would have taught, but he never had a formal education in magic.
-shane
Tennant Stuart tenn...@argonet.co.uk
Check http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/author/transcript1.htm in which J.K.Rowling states that there's no University for Wizards.
Tennant
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Frank Wustner see-...@for.email.org
I agree with you completely. I remember my "graduation" from eighth grade. At the time, I nearly exploded at the stupidity of it.
They had us sing to our parents at the ceremony. It was one of those bland, waste-of-time inspirational pieces. I refused to sing that moronic thing out of general principals and just stood there with my mouth shut.
There was a funny bit to it, though, as we were in the auditorium seats rather than up on stage, and in alphabetical order. This meant I was in the last row, with the first row of parents immediately in front of me. None of us were very thrilled with being forced to sing, so even with the rest of the cl*** singing, it was barely above a whisper. One of the parents in front of me grinned and gestured with her hands that we should sing louder. I grinned back and shook my head "no". She was rather amused by that.
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"Nicholas E. Andrade" neand...@ucsd.edu
Allen the Magic Goose wrote: I do agree that the graduation in the US is a bit overdone however I do believe it is warranted to some extent. With regard to graduations for young children, having small ceremonies for little kids to make them feel like they accomplished something and motivate them to go on makes sense to me. For high school, you have to keep in mind not everyone goes to college and for some people that is a significant accomplishment.
Actually I find the form graduation takes is a bit humorous (e.g.. playing a song from an opera and wearing gowns based on what priests wore hundreds of years ago seems pointless).
Oh well, ~Nick
"mike" mpet...@castlerockinfo.com
Thanks for all the input.
I should have guessed there were no wizard Universities, otherwise I am sure that Percy would have applied.
Thanks for the info on Graduation Ceremonies in the UK. While I understand -
it is sad that after spending 7-8 years at a place "like" Hogwarts (or name your schools here) That you could all just pack your bags and get back on the train and leave without some sort of formal obsevation of the event.
While I agree that here in the US we DO get carried away, in fact I boycotted my own graduation in 1972 by refusing to attend. But I do defend the fact that since my Grandparents generation in the US seldonm finished the primary school grades, and in my parents generation not eveeryone finished High School, my generation (and a bit before) was only the beginning of when people are now "EXPECTED" to finish High School and as such raduation is an accomplishment to be celebrated. Besides - at 18 years old ANY excuse to PARTY will do.
...
Kaare Fiedler Christiansen fied...@daimi.au.dk
Ah, thanks.
Guess you have to be a self-taught professor to earn the title then.
Best Kaare
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jonat ...@buzzard.org.uk (Jonathan Buzzard)
In article <7i1i9.15$b_1.0@fe01>, "mike" <mpet...@castlerockinfo.com> writes: Why, the important thing is not that you have spent X years there, but what qualifications you have come away with. For Muggles these are GCSEs and A levels in most of the U.K. (Scotland is different).
Thay are entirely seperate from the fact that you have finished school *and* each other. Pupils will take a varying number of them and get varying scores depending on their abilities. It is these results from the various exams that are important, not the fact you have left school. Further more these qualifications are not awarded by the schools themselves but by national examination boards.
This is *very* different from the U.S.A. where as I understand you come away at ~18 with a single piece of paper saying you finished school with a single headline score.
Further in English as apposed to American, graduation specifically referes to the leaving a University with a qualification. Of course when you leave University you also get a single qualification not a bunch of qualifications.
JAB.
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Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonat...@buzzard.org.uk Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44(0)1661-832195
stark at_ni...@hotmail.com
Okay. Here it usually refers to either both, or the completion of any pseudo-training. Several children I've known have had Kindergarten graduation parties. I guess we just dont apply such a strict definition: Graduate \Grad"u*ate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Graduated}p. pr. & vb. n. {Graduating}.] [Cf. F. graduer. See {Graduate}, n., {Grade}.] 2. To admit or elevate to a certain grade or degree; esp., in a college or university, to admit, at the close of the course, to an honorable standing defined by a diploma; as, he was graduated at Yale College.
Brittish English seems to have accepted only the special case, which is not its original meaning.
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shutup_cart ...@remove.hotmail.nospam.com.now (Allen the Magic Goose)
On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:47:29 -0600, "mike" Ah!!!! You do have a point there :o) Allen
jonat ...@buzzard.org.uk (Jonathan Buzzard)
If I am then sure, I didn't go to school in the USA so whats wrong with admitting I am wrong.
Still quite different from what we do. For starters there are two rounds of qualifications (which is why there area OWLS and NEWTS at Hogwarts).
Secondly you have a concept of some overall score which more or less does not exist here. I got a number of O levels at 16 and two years latter I got some A levels. I never talk about an overall score, but how many I got, and what grades I got in each subject. There is no overall score. Note you can also level school after the first round of qualifications, though in practice at least half stay on these days.
Exists though doesn't it, you leave school with a bit of paper with an overall score on it. That whole concept simply does not exist here in the U.K.
Well they are not goverment run here either. O.K. so while not being entirely correct I was not entirely wrong either.
No the concept of graduating is *older* than the school system and *older* than the U.S.A. is a country for that matter and specifically refers to the process of leaving a University with a qualification. One could have graduated from an English University *before* Nicholas Flamel was even born.
In America you have broadened the meaning, while back here in the U.K.
we still use the original meaning. My dictionary is quite clear that graduating is from Universities, along with little notes saying in the U.S. it also applies to schools.
JAB.
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Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonat...@buzzard.org.uk Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44(0)1661-832195
dicc ...@radix.net (Richard Eney)
Very technically, no (though farther down the page, it's close enough). In the U.S.A. you come away with a piece of paper that is the diploma, which is your written legal proof of having completed school according to the requirements of the state. Since records can be lost and communication difficult, it can be helpful to have the piece of paper even now. The diploma does not have the "headline score" on it.
There is another piece of paper called a transcript, which has your school marks on it, including specific ones for each cl*** and also an overall score called a grade point average. The same system is used for both high school and for college: if you complete them successfully, you have a diploma, which only says that you succeeded (though in college it may also indicate magna or summa cum laude, if applicable), and a transcript, which gives the details.
To the best of my knowledge, that is not a requirement of all land grant schools, though it may be in your state. Land grant colleges are expected to accept all _qualified_ applicants who are legal residents of the state.
Other colleges may have stricter requirements; as long as they don't accept any funds from the federal government, they can require anything, up to and including being a particular physical type.
I think there's a slight confusion here. As I understand it, and I may well be wrong, O-levels and A-levels referred to two different levels of exams, which were taken at different times, O-levels earlier in the school career, after which you continued in school, and A-levels, after which you left school. Both are considered significant, but A-levels are harder to p*** than O-levels.
The two systems are very different, but - very roughly - I think O-levels are comparable to Finals (or perhaps to the standard Math and English-Language SATs) and A-levels are comparable to SAT Achievement Tests, which are in other areas and are not only optional but cost more money to take. Except that as far as I know, nobody uses SATs for anything except admission to college - they are not used for job applications as far as I know.
If PSATs meant anything other than practice for the SATs, they might have been equivalent to O-levels then. In the USA now there is no way to get credit for having only done half of high school - either you finish (and p***) or you are considered a drop-out, with no credentials. I think that 8th grade graduation used to take the place of O-levels. After you've been out of high school a while (generally after the cl*** you would have been in has graduated), it's possible to take the Equivalency Exams, which will give you a document that says you p***ed them. It's supposed to be exactly equal to a high school diploma but it's considered sort of second-best; however, it will let you attend a university if you can convince the admissions office that you have other good qualities.
Two bits of paper, but otherwise accurate.
I think the general idea in the USA is that once you leave high school, you are ***umed to know anything basic, and ***umed not to know anything else that is useful. High school in the USA is no longer considered equivalent to trade school, and employers often entirely discount any training received there (such as metal shop) beyond minimal literacy. The diploma means you were sufficiently disciplined to attend for four years, not be thrown out for misbehavior, and good at p***ing exams.
=Tamar
galaxysta ...@aol.com (GalaxyStar96)
Actually, I've heard that some management consulting firms ask for SAT scores during the interview. Sun
Tennant Stuart tenn...@argonet.co.uk
That reminds me Chris, do you recall taking part in a trivia challenge to name students with double initials? Since that was never completed, would you like to know the mysterious name which defeated everybody?
Tennant
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Sky Rider O...@cyberscriber.com
On 17 Sep 2002 22:12:00 +0200, Kaare Fiedler Christiansen <fied...@daimi.au.dk> row, row, rowed the boat - then wro, wro, wrote this note : How do you know Hagrid is a Professor? Just because the other teachers we know of have been.... that doesn't mean ALL teachers are professors!
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