military schools prior to high school
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jessemiller2 ...@yahoo.com (jesse miller)
Why are we allowing children in our cl***rooms to continually disturb and disrupt the learning of their peers? The inclusion of today is allowing a few to interfere with the education of the majority. I am not saying to send kids that swear, daydream, or talk excesively off to a military school. However I am saying that there are some children in our educational system that have had far too many chances.
These are the children that continually threaten the safety of their peers, either through verbal or physical means. They are the reason that some children wake up in the morning and say, "I dont want to go to school." The bullies need a different remedy because the suspensions and time away from the cl***room is only making them more of an outcast and more distant. They need a system that will not allow them to use their physical atributes. They need a system that will eventually rid them of their actions and prevent them from entering a system of corrections.
"Why not a military school" I say. Our society is so afraid to send extreme children to military schools.
They are afraid that the school will be too much of an institution and effect the child's posibility for a so called "normal life." However, The children that we are dealing with in these situations rarely lead a normal life. They are learning this behavior through experience. If there is no intervention we are just p***ing the child on, to get them out of our hair.
"Jim Not-From-Here" jhwa...@bignospamfoot.com
Comments inline: ...
Why are you ***uming that inclusion is the culprit, and not such things beyond the school's control as gang culture and media violence and vulgarity?
I doubt it. But even if it is true, if the amount of time they spend in suspension makes them outcasts and distant, what will sending them away from their peers for an entire school year or school term to a regimented school do?
Wouldn't it be better to allow them to use their physical attributes in a positive manner?
A highly regimented school may very well be a good alternative for many students. Such alternatives as "cl***ic" or "military" magnet schools have been successful in some communities, I believe. If you are talking about a residential military school, as most of those I am acquainted with are, then you are going to have to address some very hard legal issues, especially if the students (or parents) don't want to go.
Jim Wayne
"P. Tierney" silviomo...@insightbb.com
The military isn't in the education business. They have other things going on.
P. Tierney
Martin Rowley kmrow...@swbell.net
Are "military schools" actually a part of the Armed Forces?
I always thought of them as private (no pun intended) schools.
Martin
"Richard C. Adams" rad...@orednet.org
I think the poster was referring to a military TYPE of school with ranks, discipline out the wazoo, and the regimentation that doesn't allow the bullies to be free-lance. (they may become officers or non-coms, however).
So, this type of "military" IS in the education business. We have one in our community, Pioner Youth Corp Organization. PYCO accepts troublesome students from other areas as a charter school and gets a percentage of the state fees paid to the district. It seems to work, although neighbors complain of the load shouts during physical exercises and marching.
Richard Adams Eugene, Oregon
"Susan Umpleby" sumpl...@earthlink.net
------------------Yes, we have a school like that in our area as well. The kids (both boys & girls) wear either camouflage fatigues or a type of "dress" uniform. The teacher is addressed as "Colonel." They use the library much more than any other school in our area, coming on a weekly basis.
Joni Rathbun jrath...@orednet.org
Do the other schools have libraries of their own?
"P. Tierney" silviomo...@insightbb.com
I ***umed that those running it are, or were, in the military.
It doesn't seem that they can wear such uniforms and be called "Colonel" and such without having earned the rank.
We had a large ROTC program at my last school, but it was run by teachers who were military officers (retired, I ***ume) and wore their uniforms daily.
P. Tierney
"Richard C. Adams" rad...@orednet.org
Anyone can call themselves "colonel", witness Harlan Sanders and his chicken. It's only an offense if you represent yourself as being a United States Army Colonel. Come to think of it, we had a captain of the football squad and California has a Lieutenant Governor. Then there are General Motors and General Mills.
The point is, ANYONE can use military jargon, military marching, military titles, military courtesy, military ranks, military methods, and even teach kids how to use infantry maneuvers. Some military academies even give weapons training but our local one does not.
It seems the idea of absolute, unquestionable discipline with spelled out, specific rules, and punishments of physical exercise ("Drop and give me 50!") seem to work with some students who are used to physical intimidation of others. Knowing there's IS someone stronger in the wolf pack seems to trigger the civilized responses wolves have.
Richard Adams
"P. Tierney" silviomo...@insightbb.com
IMO, if one is calling himself Colonel, wearing a military-style uniform, and teaching/running a military school, then I think that such a person is representing himself as a member of the armed forces.
If such people have no military training or relationship to the military, then it would be just as fraudulent if I opened up a "Christian" school, started calling myself Father Tierney, and spending my day donned in a black robe, white collar, and dangling rosaries.
P. Tierney
"Susan Umpleby" sumpl...@earthlink.net
----------------This is Southern California. School libraries are endangered species here, in elementary schools at least. The ones that do have their own library house them in small rooms & the collections are tiny.
Joni Rathbun jrath...@orednet.org
Ahh, I didn't realize you were in California. I'm aware of what's happened to school libraries there. If I understand correctly, public libraries could be much better supported too.
Not a day goes by that I don't worry about the same thing happening here.
Martin Rowley kmrow...@swbell.net
I think most of our JRROTC instructors are "retired", but still in the reserves.
Martin
Martin Rowley kmrow...@swbell.net
What about the people in the Salvation Army? Don't they sometimes wear uniforms? And I think they have ranks - not really sure. But, I'm sure no one is going to mistake them for a branch of the US armed forces. I bet that any insignia that is on these people (military school) uniforms says something to the effect - "What-Not Academy" where it should say US Army.
The area where I work part-time has a lot of bail-bonds offices. Many of the people that work for these places, and who go out looking for people that fail to show up - dress and look a lot like police officers. But that doesn't make them cops. Same goes for the mall-rent-a-cops. They are usually modeled after the regular police force - with similar uniforms and ranks.
I get called "coach" a lot by my students, yet I'm not a coach.
Martin
"Susan Umpleby" sumpl...@earthlink.net
------------I am fortunate in that I work for a city library rather than a county one--our budget is much better than that of surrounding libraries.
"P. Tierney" silviomo...@insightbb.com
They don't have military-style uniforms, ranks (in the sense that they are addressed formally as those ranks), guns, or any other thing that can be related to the military.
P. Tierney
Lee leedoesnotreadt...@earthlink.net
"P. said: They have military-style uniforms, although they couldn't be mistaken for US military, and they have ranks, by which they are addressed: After two successful years of training, cadets are commissioned as captains, ordained as ministers, and ***igned to active duty while continuing their education. Captains are required to devote five years to additional studies.
Promotion is based on length of service, character, efficiency, capacity for increased responsibility, and devotion to duty. The ranks are captain, major, lieutenant colonel, colonel and commissioner.
In order to be committing a fraud or impersonating an officer, you generally have to be trying to fool somebody. Dressing in a uniform and calling yourself Colonel shouldn't be a problem as long as everybody knows that you're really just an instructor at a military school.
"P. Tierney" silviomo...@insightbb.com
True, and at this point, it's only guesswork. But I suspect that if, say, a cl*** of 100 entered military school orientation and were introduced to Sergeant X who was dressed in military garb and barked out orders about this and that, that a fair number of those 100 would think that X was a real sergeant.
And not without cause, imo.
P. Tierney
Martin Rowley kmrow...@tenet.edu
Why wouldn't he / she be a "real" sergeant? Not real in the sense that they are not enlisted in the actual armed forces? There is the rank of sergeant in the police forces? Aren't these people real sergeants also? Why should only someone in the armed forces be considered "real"?
Martin
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"P. Tierney" silviomo...@insightbb.com
This is in reference to a military school. Context counts.
P. Tierney =-----
Martin Rowley kmrow...@tenet.edu
So I guess if this was a culinary school we were talking about and the top instructor was called "Head Chef" or something, that unless he/she actually was working in such capacity at a "for real" restaurant, then the title would then be pretty much bogus.
Martin
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"P. Tierney" silviomo...@insightbb.com
I'll p*** on all of these diversions of yours.
P. Tierney =-----
Lee leedoesnotreadt...@earthlink.net
P. Tierney said: The fact that you see them as diversions just shows how different your viewpoint seems to be from Martin's and from mine. You seem to have attached a degree of sancitity to military titles that I don't see at all.
It seems to me that the analogy of "Head Chef" of a culinary school to a "Colonel" at a military school is pretty good.
Martin Rowley kmrow...@swbell.net
Was thinking of this on the drive home.
Military schools are in the business of teaching the military way of doing things. The way that most of these institutions do this is by modeling the way things are actually done in the real military. As such the person with the title "sergeant" at the school is very much the same as the person who works for the government and is also called "sergeant". The title denotes where this person fits into the chain of command and the also defines what this person's duties and responsibilities are - not to mention the authority they have over cadets (students) of lesser rank.
You may not concede to that - but I would imagine that most people would - even those who are actually in the military.
Martin
"Sumbuny" sumb...@TAKETHISOUTcox.net
As the daughter of an Air Force NCO; granddaughter of Army NCOs; niece of an Army NCO, and a Navy Officer; wife of an Air Force NCO....
...I agree with your POV....military rank is *earned*, but the rank of these instructors is also *earned*....and neither guarrantees respect, which must be earned on *its* own as well...
The analogy is apt...
--
Buny
-------" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
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