Child Abuse And Why
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"John Dunn" afterfosterc...@pei.sympatico.ca
What is it.. why the **** does it exist? Because we are naturally a violent animal. We have fangs, claws, hair on our whole body... we are animals. Our basic desire is to be violent... Why do I say this.. because it is true.
Sure there might be a few who are kind enough to use logic over instinct, and who can restrain themselves from abusing a child, but the basic thing that causes it, is a need for control in the human animal.
I am writing right now because I am furious. Rageing maybe.. I know I am not a danger to any adults.. but to children, I am very dangerous.
I have known this since my early teens. One day while baby sitting, I raised a coat hanger over my head to beat a kid... Thank god it was so dark in the room the kid did not see, as I told this kid to go to bed and he/she was not agreeable....
Anyhow, my brain kicked in and stopped it from happening at the last second...
This is the animal we are... violent to the core... I thank god for those of you who do not agree with me, because it is you, who would make a good foster parent.
I have learned the ways to control a kid are to beat him, to take control of him, and to force him to submit.. giving you a sick pleasure in the "win" situation...
This is what I learned through living in foster care...
I have been a lucky one, compared so some, who is able to take the "time out" required in certain situations where it is not my kid, because of the strong fact that is it not my kid, and i don't wish to end up in jail...(I don't have a kid anyhow) But I still to this day feel that horrible rage build inside me where I would most certainly like to kick the disobedient kid across the floor for not listening to me, but instead .. i walk to my kitchen window while my guest is here with her kid and I stare at the trees, and the snow falling and try to block out the burning rage i feel in the pit of my gut.
This is why I do not hate those who abused me physically... because I understand where they are coming from. I know exactly how they felt as they abused me. I do not approve of it, but I completely understand it. I empathize... I feel it.. it can totally consume you...
I feel it necessary to let this out on here in a public matter so others know what the feeling is like.. and I am sure many who read it will be shocked, especially anyone who knows me... but as part of my healing, I have to be completey honest and open.
It is for these reasons I have vowed to NEVER have kids, and to never be alone with kids... because for sure, they would end up very sorry for just being them... a kid.
I am ****ing shaking mad, and all the kid was doing was touching my stuff on my desk, not listening to my repeated requests to leave it alone, and i was ready to ****in snap.. but instead i walked... my head is spinning like buzz from the first ciggarette i ever smoked... i almost want one for the first time in over two years..
I am ok... they are gone now, she was just cheking her email and letting her kid run lose in my apartment.. but all is well.
I am going to ask her to never bring her kid here again. This is not a safe environment for kids... this world of mine.
John Dunn Former Foster Kid!
http://afterfostercare.tripod.com
"helicon" heli...@eircom.net
I hope you are okay now. Your rage was palpable! Do you have any other outlet where you can talk with someone - or a group? Was it your *space* being invaded that got to you? That can *really* trigger someone who is not used to having people around, whether they are children or adults. Are *you* particularly careful around other people's 'space' or is it just your own?
If, growing up, you hadn't a secure and safe place for either yourself or your belongings, then it stands to reason that you would be very protective of anything that you have, now.
You really might consider dealing with it in more productive place than here!
Best wishes Helen
"John Dunn" afterfosterc...@pei.sympatico.ca
Hey thanks for your comments..
Um.. I am in my apartment, and I always keep my hands to myself... even in the foster homes I remember always being carefull not to touch anything... I did not lean on walls, or sit on chairs unless told I could.. just things like that.
I always feel awkward in others places.. so I try to avoid entering the private home of someone else... so yes due to my need for things to not be touched by someone who does not appreciate the value of it maybe, like a simple c***ette to someone is a recording of me walking from Toronto to the east coast things like that.
I know kids are innocent.. this is why I prefer to not have them around...
But yes i have heard from others about his before that because I did not have a feeling of privacy etc in the homes, that this might be why...
With adults it is no problem... they seem to know or respect that and don't go around grabbing stuff you know?
I am ok just so you know.. I just had to get it out.. you know? man.. i was so scared of my thoughts...
As for a therapist.. it is kinda hard I guess because to date, I have moved so many times I am never really anywher long.. 38 moves now.. but I did email a guy I saw once in Toronto at Family Service asking if he would "be my therapist" haha..
I saw him once, then moved to another town.. errrrr instable as hell...
Those who know me know me as a funny guy, who is always kidding around, very mile mannered, and even too polite. I have a hard time making eye contact with people so I am definitley not the type to impede in other peoples spaces.. but yeah.. I guess I just needed to get that out..
I knew when I sent it out I would be so embarrased afterwards, but hell at least it is out, and on all the freakin newsgroups and hopefully someone else out there who also feels as I do will maybe learn a good technique of avoiding the impulse to hit.
Ya never know...
But I am ok.. and am working on getting a therapist :) Thanks so much :)
"geopelia" phildo...@xtra.co.nz
People who feel like this, and choose to have their children adopted because of it, face great difficulties if they try to be honest about their real feelings. It is so easy to trot out the usual "I can't afford a child and it is best for the baby" line. Today of course most people with these feelings would probably choose abortion.
"John Dunn" afterfosterc...@pei.sympatico.ca
Yes I think what you are getting at is that those who feel this way with kids, would like to be able to maintain contact with their kids instead of giving them up totally for adoption?
So in other words open adoption should be an option is that it? If so I agree. Why should you lose your child totally just because you don't have the patience or personality to raise her/him.
"geopelia" phildo...@xtra.co.nz
No, open adoption where there is any contact at all would be very dangerous for people who feel like this. The child's safety must come first.
adopta ...@aol.com (AdoptaDad)
My faith in parents of all kinds (b-, a-, and foster-) is much stronger.
Replace "few" with "many", "most", or the "vast majority"... and we're in agreement here.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. It has been my belief that the human need for "control" does not necessarily manifest itself in violence and abuse towards children. But what *has* been proven as a significant causal factor in violence and abuse towards children is whether the child has suffered from abuse - and has not learned an alternate (nonviolent) way in parenting their own children.
The good news here is that you seem fully aware of your rage and are taking steps to control it. That, in and of itself, shows a level of self-awareness that puts you far ahead of the small minority of parents who abuse their child(ren) and insist that not only is it "normal" - but their god given right as parents.
Resisting one's bedtime is rather small potatoes in the scheme of things.
Imagine what you might have done if the kid repeatedly crapped in a shoebox and threw his shit out the back window. (Where have I heard that one before?) Or if your child intentionally secretly hid objects of value (like your car keys or wallet) and watched you search frantically until you found them. Or, gawd forbid, should your child show a propensity for aggression/violence towards smaller children and/or pets.
Abuse is a downward spiral, not unlike so many other human addictions. Kids learn it from their parents, and too often teach it to their own children a generation later.
Or maybe because you could empathize with them?
I don't agree with you. Whether or not that makes me a good parent is another matter.
On one hand, how can you call violence an inate human characteristic while, on the other, claim you learned it from your foster care-givers?
No. This is what you learned from abusive parents. Do you think children abused by their biological parents somehow don't suffer the same emotional trauma?
< snipped rest > Dad
"geopelia" phildo...@xtra.co.nz
Girls are told "You will love the baby when it arrives".
What if they can't? Today social workers try to talk unwilling mothers into keeping their children.
Should the child ever be told the real reason for its adoption, if the mother knew she could harm it? Abuse runs in families, probably learned, but what if there is some genetic factor involved? Should the child know there is a possibility it may turn out the same?
Geopelia
patric ...@bigpond.com.au (Dian)
What crap!
Di
juliees ...@aol.com (Julieesrun)
Yes, and its as big a bunch of crap as all the stereotypes and nonsense you spout about adoption and adoptive parents. One wingnut recognizes another...
Julie
"geopelia" phildo...@xtra.co.nz
Nice normal people will think all this is crap, stay nice and normal and the best of luck to you.
rkb ...@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)
What do you consider is crap, though?
Presumably some women do relinquish their kids for adoption because they might abuse them otherwise. (Some, obviously, not most or even many.) And though abuse running in families is very likely to be learned behaviour (or a failure to learn positive behvaiours), there could indeed be a genetic component -- perhaps a personality with low self-control and a tendency to aggression.
I don't think there's any point in warning the child that it "may turn out the same" though. We don't know how much is learned and how much is genetic. And even if the genetic component is substantial, the person as he or she grows up in a non-abusive environment, may well learning coping mechanisms that were not available to the birth-parent. And thus turn out to be an effective parent later.
Rupa
"geopelia" phildo...@xtra.co.nz
Thank you. Nice to see somebody takes this seriously. Geopelia
fern5 ...@aol.com (Fern5827)
The cycle of violence theory, while engaging, does not seem to have any empirical studies behind it.
rkb ...@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)
I didn't realize that. It's been talked of as an established fact for a long time...
Hope someone *does* do some investigation here.
Rupa
patric ...@bigpond.com.au (Dian)
Is this a mythical mother or do you personally know some who have relinquished for that reason? I know Kathy relinquished partly because she feared her abusive ex would harm her son. But never did she suggest that she felt an inate tendency to harm her child herself. She relinquished him to protect him from the abusive situation she was in at the time.
This little scam was commonly pulled on mothers who sought to keep their kids. They were being told they would end up hating their child and blaming them for being poor and struggling. They were also being told that their boyfriend would end up hating the child and taking his anger out on the child if it wasn't his own. Which is the ultimate in irony given that they were expected to give their children up to non biologically related adoptive parents. All of this was designed to make the mother question her own capacit yot parent.
I concede that there might be the occasional mother with bipolar who relinquishes out of concern for her child and doubts her capacity to adequately parent, and are encouraged to relinquish. And yet another irony, bipolar disorder does not preclude an adoptive applicant from adopting.
Oh look Rupa, this is all bad blood theory. Babies aren't born bad.
They are born with specific personality traits, none of which are murderous predispositions. Some babies are placid, some demanding, some temperamental, other gregarious, etc, etc.
Abuse is a learned behaviour. It's the reason laws were implemented to outlaw physical violence against children. If genetics played a part then there would be no laws prohibiting violence. When "It's not my fault, your Honour. I was born to kill" becomes an accepted defense in a murder trial I might reconsider the bad blood theory myself.
Di
"John Dunn" afterfosterc...@pei.sympatico.ca
I grew up being abused .. now did you read where this message started originally? Check it out at http://afterfostercare.tripod.com and see up in the top right hand corner my diary page where I talk about my rage towards kids
"Marley Greiner" maddogmar...@worldnet.att.net
<>...
Wanna bet? They are born angry, selfish, self-centered, narcissistic, and demanding.
Marley
"geopelia" phildo...@xtra.co.nz
Some females have no maternal instinct at all. Should they be expected to raise children? Look up some of the experiments that have been done with female rats. (The rat mother can always eat her babies!) Here's another thought. What happens when a single mother is raising a child in poverty, and it discovers that it could have been adopted? How will the child feel then? Nobody ever seems to consider this.
Geopelia
"Jack Bernhard" jcbernh...@deletethisprodigy.net
Not unless you're into compulsory pregnancy and motherhood.
Look up some of the experiments that have been done with Can't say as I'm up on those.
Ho boy.
What happens when a single mother is raising a child What? Are you suggesting that the offspring of a poor woman will eventually be angry with his mother for not sending him off to suburbia? Or are you of the opinion that cl*** defines parental abilities?
How will the Uh, I'm highly doubtful that it's important issue at all. Conversely, an adoptee who discovers that societal values dictated his situation and had he not been adopted, he would have essentially enjoyed a similar lifestyle might view the whole thing with a certain degree of cynicism.
Nobody ever seems to consider this.
Because it's stupid.
Jack
rkb ...@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)
Oh I completely agree with you.
I didn't suggest babies are born bad at all, or at least I didn't mean to. I meant that some kids (and people) have personality traits that make parenting (as it's done now, in nuclear families) more of a challenge for them. If a person with a cluster of such personality traits is in an abusive household, then quite possibly that person would grow up to be abusive.
The same kid, growing up in a supportive household, might well learn to control and compensate for traits that would otherwise stand in the way of effective parenting. On the other hand, there might well be kids who, no matter how they were raised, had personalities that enabled them to become effective parents themselves.
The 'bad blood' theory is an extreme statement that genetics is the over-riding factor. The tabula rasa theory is its polar opposite. In my view, the truth lies somewhere in between. For a particular individual, I think that "somewhere" is very difficult to determine.
Rupa
rkb ...@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)
Nope, not angry. (Unless the doctor whacks them on the bottom, then they're angry.) Self-centered, narcissistic, and demanding I'll go with. They're the center of their universes. What else do you expect?
Gandhi from the get-go? (Only because of the physical resemblance...) Rupa
rkb ...@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)
Guy de Maup***ant wrote a story about it...
A wealthy lady drives through a poor neighborhood in a carriage and is enchanted by the children on the street. On impulse, she decides she will have one. She asks one family, who indignantly refuses. She then negotiates with their neighbor, and drives off with the kid.
Fast forward 20 years or so. Carriage rolls up to the neighbor's door, well-dressed and elegant young man comes out, hugs his parents, and there is a joyful reunion.
Meanwhile, the son of the family who refused stands there watching jealously. "That could have been me!" he tells his parents.
But it's fiction. I doubt very much that kids in real life wish they'd been adopted, unless the raising parent is abusive or very neglectful.
Rupa
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