Gift Registries
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"Karen" concrt...@socal.rr.com
Hi All, What is your opinion of gift registries for baby showers? I have a strong feeling that registries should only be for weddings, and anything else is like rudely asking for presents. Problem is, my mother-in-law wants me to register for my baby shower. Also, if you do register, should that be noted in the baby shower invitation?
Ericka Kammerer e...@comcast.net
Registries are still technically frowned on by etiquette mavens, including Miss Manners, for baby showers. Shower gifts are supposed to be small, inexpensive, token gifts, not big things that require coordination. In the unexpected and unlikely event that a group wants to get together to get a bigger item, they should take the initiative to coordinate it through the host or the grandmother-to-be or some other person who would be in the know.
No. Even though showers require guests to bring gifts, it's still considered inappropriate to put registry information in the invitation. It's dicey enough to be inviting guests to a gifts-mandatory event. You don't want to push things by getting too dictatorial about precisely which gifts they should give. If they're interested in using a registry to find out your preferences, they can (and will) call the host.
Best wishes, Ericka
"userb3" use...@yahoo.com
I'm personally opposed to gift registries, period.
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userb3 I'm all for family values. I think each family should be able to live by their own values with no interference from the government.
meirman meir...@invalid.com
In alt.fan.miss-manners on Thu, 04 Apr 2002 19:49:42 GMT Ericka Kammerer <e...@comcast.net> posted: That's why my sister registered for a vegetable brush, a vegetable peeler, a dish rack, and a sink strainer. She got all 4, all with matching handles.
kidding, in case that wasn't clear.
meir...@QQQerols.com If you email me, please let me know whether remove the QQQ or not you are posting the same letter.
"Randee Dawn" randeed...@earthlink.net
I'm interested in why nearly everyone who replied to this message is opposed to registries.
I haven't been married, have never had a kid, so have never needed a registry, but frankly I've been appreciative of them when my friends got married and had kids. I never felt as though I *had* to use them if I had a superb unique gift I wanted to give anyway, but in order to avoid five blenders they strike me as both practical and a boon to the very busy/terminally lazy.
So anyway, I'm just wondering: Why are they frowned upon?
...
their own values with no interference from the government.
"Mahr Stott" mahr_st...@yahoo.NOSPAM.com
> I haven't been married, have never had a kid, so have never needed a
> registry, but frankly I've been appreciative of them when my friends got
> married and had kids. I never felt as though I *had* to use them if I had a
> superb unique gift I wanted to give anyway, but in order to avoid five
> blenders they strike me as both practical and a boon to the very
> busy/terminally lazy.
> So anyway, I'm just wondering: Why are they frowned upon?
What a great question! I have been married for many years but have no children. I am SO GRATEFUL when my friends register for gifts so I can get them exactly what they want. It is a joy to buy gifts for my friends and their babies. I love it.
Best wishes, Mahr
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Stick together. Life is a group outing.
Ericka Kammerer e...@comcast.net
<snip> Registries *can* make things easier for some givers, but at the expense of giving the appearance that the recipient is not only *expecting* gifts, but expects to have the right to make up a shopping list for others to follow. It violates the principle that gift giving is *totally* at the discretion of the giver--including whether to give at all. Givers have the burden of figuring out what to give. The theory is that it's the *sentiment* that's important, not the gift itself, and there's little sentiment in sending someone out shopping armed with your shopping list. So, the default is that it's not appropriate to tell people what to get for you. Because wedding gifts traditionally involve household goods that have patterns (like china, crystal, flatware, etc.) and larger than usual guest lists (thus leading to the multiple toaster/crockpot/fondue set problem), etiquette mavens held their noses and decreed that in this limited instance, it was okay to have a registry as long as the information was given out *only* when it was specifically asked for, but beyond that, they haven't approved any other use of registries.
And really, when it comes to showers, the gifts are supposed to be *small* (the significant baby gift is supposed to be brought by another time). Where's the need to register for diapers or onsies or baby clothes or the other small items necessary for baby care? While some people get larger gifts these days (and risk embarr***ing other shower guests who stay with the traditionally modest gifts), it would still be presumptuous of the mom-to-be to register for big gifts as if she were expecting her friends to give such large gifts at a shower.
I understand that this means that givers have to do some more work in order to choose a gift. Still, is it really that hard? And isn't the search for the *perfect* gift that is unique and really says something about your relationship with the recipient part of the fun of searching for gifts? And if you were the recipient, wouldn't it be nicer to know that your friends were blessing you and your baby-to-be with personally chosen gifts, rather than gifts *you* had chosen? In the few cases where someone would want to get you something big or where duplicates would be a problem, it's easy enough for the giver to do a little checking around. And if the giver can't or won't do that, then it's easy enough to choose a different kind of gift.
I'm not saying it's utterly awful when people use a registry. Obviously, one does want to get a gift that the recipient will appreciate. Still, I do think it makes the whole thing awfully scripted and takes the heart out of gift-giving. My favorite wedding gifts didn't come from the registry, and I never registered for baby things and was delighted with the lovely things people chose on their own.
Best wishes, Ericka
meirman meir...@invalid.com
In alt.fan.miss-manners on Fri, 05 Apr 2002 00:56:20 GMT "Randee Dawn" <randeed...@earthlink.net> posted: I can't comment on the etiquette or frowning, and I would probably want to follow the rules by not mentioning the registry and making them call the bride's mother, but I'll say this much.
I just hate spending money for something someone doesn't want, even if he only has one of them. OTOH, if I know it is something wanted, price isn't too much of a hindrance. When I realized she wanted one, I gave my girlfriend a piano and we had broken up or were almost broken up at the time iirc.
meir...@QQQerols.com If you email me, please let me know whether remove the QQQ or not you are posting the same letter.
totot ...@mail.pacificcoast.net (Uncle Mandrake)
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 18:21:30 GMT, "Karen" It's a Really Bad Idea. It marks you as a greedy person. Gift registries for *weddings* are bad enough, but for a shower? No way.
Well, iirc Miss Manners points out somewhere in The Writings that a shower is an exceptional form of social event because gift-
giving is the central theme. As long as your shower is thrown for you by a friend -- no, no, not your mother -- no imputation of greed accrues to your social record. As long as you don't set up a registry for it.
Tell your m.i.l. that you asked about it on the internet and were told in no uncertain terms that It Is Not Done In The Best Circles. Nor even in the less-than-best. You can exaggerate your account of receiving this advice to taste; Uncle will back you up if required.
The question is moot because you won't be registering. The internet told you not to.
And anyway, isn't half the fun of a shower the pleasant surprise the guest of honor has at seeing all the clever and useful things the other guests have thought she could use? A registry takes away the surprise, it seems to me.
[Uncle is about ready to declare childish letters to Santa double-plus-ungood as they set a bad example for the young.]
--
Uncle Mandrake Victoria, BC, Canada
"Diedrich Kohl" dri...@telussWith1S.net
Ditto. I think they're presumptuous. As to the "Why?" question that somebody asked, Ericka has already helpfully answered that.
As noted, though, they're officially allowed and not-rude ("tolerated" is probably more accurate) etiquette-wise for weddings -- provided however that the information is ONLY disclosed upon explicit request from guests.
Doing it for a SHOWER is just absurd. What's next, birthday-party and graduation gift registries? meirman's sarcastic remark about matching-
handle corkscrews and vegetable brushes was absolutely right on target and entirely deserved. He might also have reapplied to this case his sarcastic remark about webpage dress-code instructions; next people will be setting up webpages with their registry shopping lists so that guest-donors can register online for their choice of gift. Or possibly even enter their credit-card numbers online and have the exact item preselected by the couple automatically shipped to them.
The most you can do with a shower is specify a gift theme (which seems sort of reasonable given that many brides-to-be nowadays are already sufficiently stocked with items in the traditional default theme of small household items).
===== Rick =====
"Diedrich Kohl" dri...@telussWith1S.net
Apparently not in this case!!
===== Rick =====
ele ...@ripco.com (Elizabeth M. Levin)
: The most you can do with a shower is specify a gift theme (which seems : sort of reasonable given that many brides-to-be nowadays are already : sufficiently stocked with items in the traditional default theme of : small household items).
And even that is done by those hosting the shower. For example, a friend of mine is getting married soon, and I know she hasn't had a lot of experience doing her own cooking. So the theme is going to be a "recipe shower" bring your favorite recipe (we're providing recipe cards that can either be handwritten or sent through most computer printers) and maybe a gadget that helps with that recipe. I know the bride adores Welsh rarebit, so I'm giving her my recipe for that dish and a cool insert that will convert most saucepans to a double boiler.
To address another thread, we (the friends throwing the shower) intend to wear Hawaiian print sundresses, and we found cute invitations in a very "tropical" style, so we figure that will sort of hint in the right direction. We guess people will show up in everything from reasonably nice shorts to sundresses. (The shower will be at the end of May, which is usually warmish around here.)
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Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
aMAZon zeszu...@worldnet.att.net
I believe that "Toys R Us" actually has a registry that kids can have for their birthday parties.
It's supposed to help, e.g., grandparents living at a distance.
--
aMAZon zeszu...@worldnet.att.net "It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
Ericka Kammerer e...@comcast.net
Already exist!
These exist too--wish lists are a popular retailer web site feature. Many of the toy stores online feature birthday registries, but it's certainly not limited to children's toy stores.
Best wishes, Ericka
totot ...@mail.pacificcoast.net (Uncle Mandrake)
On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 00:56:20 GMT, "Randee Dawn" A gift registry says "I want *this* and *this* and *that* and *the other*." Not a pleasant sight even in a child and disgusting in an adult.
It strikes me that gift registries have it backwards: it shouldn't be the bride-to-be that makes entries into it, but rather the guests as they buy the gifts. That would avoid the five blenders problem.
Another objection to modern gift registries, as found on a computer screen at a department store near you, is that they are horrifyingly specific: *this* colour of sheets in *that* brand.
What, are sheets of some other colour, under a brandname possibly far superior to the bride's choice, beyond the pale?
'Twould be far better if the registry simply said "queen size bed linens, two sets" than all this picky crap about colour and brand.
--
Uncle Mandrake Victoria, BC, Canada
"Diedrich Kohl" dri...@telussWith1S.net
LOL.
I think maybe that's different, because it's understood that Santa implicitly has asked for the information -- how good one has been during the year, and what items one would enjoy. Similarly, if one is pressed by a would-be gift-giver, one may grudgingly but properly disclose that one could really use a new runcible spoon -- but only, of course, after responding at least once that the giver is so kind but one really doesn't need anything.
You may be right, however, that this subtle distinction will be lost on letter-writers to Santa unless it is carefully explained --
e.g., one does not similarly ask Grandma for things, much less write her letters with such unsolicited suggestions. (Though it is probably acceptable to write and tell her how good one has been lately, because grandmas are always interested in such.) Once children have mastered this concept, they may proceed on to more-subtle letter contents like chatty news, such as their keen interest in playing "Farm, Barn, and Animals", or "Thomas the Train" even though the figurine children must ride the coal-car as the schoolbus-car is lacking.
In fairness, children should also be told to indicate alternatives just in case Santa is out-of-stock on machine guns, if applicable.
===== Rick =====
"userb3" use...@yahoo.com
God forbid a grandparent should ask the child or his parents what might be an appropriate present.
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userb3 I'm all for family values. I think each family should be able to live by their own values with no interference from the government.
"userb3" use...@yahoo.com
For several reasons: a) Gifts are optional. Registries help further the notion that they aren't.
b) Given that gifts are optional, gifts should be at the discretion of the giver, not the recipient.
c) Registries indicate an unseemly expectation that the recipient expects to receive gifts.
d) Registries inhibit creative gift giving.
e) IMHO, someone mature enough to marry should be mature enough to select and buy one's own dishes, linens, and other household goods. If friends and family wish to ease this duty, they should take the extraordinary step of actually communicating with the couple.
f) Do 20 year olds really need fine china and silver service for 12?
g) Given that items on a registry all have posted prices (available to the recipient), it invites undesirable comparisons and value judgements
- "Hmmmm, Uncle Fred sprang for 3 bills, but Cousin Joe only spent 25 bucks - what a cheapskate!" or "I don't know if I like them $100 worth, but I like them more than $50 worth, and there isn't anything priced at $75!".
h) Given g, gifts from a registry may be viewed the same as cash gifts.
As such, they are really only appropriate for very close relatives, the very people who should know the couple well enough to give a meaningful gift.
Consider this possibility - what would your reaction be to a blind date who submitted his favorite sexual positions, preferred side of the bed, and choice of breakfast foods at the beginning of the evening?
Ultimately, if I don't know someone well enough to select a meaningful gift, I forego the gift.
---
"Short white gloves are now considered the symbol of female repression, while long white gloves, the symbol of upper cl*** tyranny. Miss Manners is thinking of combining them to demonstrate that she is a repressed tyrant."
"userb3" use...@yahoo.com
Uncle Mandrake! You've found the perfect solution!
And I'm so happy to see that you're healing nicely from that gender re***ignment. Modern surgery is nothing short of a marvel. Please do stop by if you're ever in the neighborhood.
--
userb3 I'm all for family values. I think each family should be able to live by their own values with no interference from the government.
"Diedrich Kohl" dri...@telussWith1S.net
Sigh. I might have known ...
Once again, the principle is demonstrated that no matter what absurd, sarcastic etiquette-atrocity example one tries to invent, somebody will report that in fact such a thing is already being done.
Yes, I've certainly seen that popular e-tailer wish-list feature in my e-travels. I hadn't really given it much thought; I just presumed it was for the individual's personal use (plus of course the REAL purpose: the major self-serving benefit to the business to have a list of what goods one would like to acquire; talk about playing right into their hands, duh). Well, silly me!
So ... I wonder if there are, in fact, online bridal registries. Even if not, I suppose there's little doubt that some people already have thought of the clever idea of using these general e-tailer wish-lists for that purpose.
I can see it now: The honour of your presence ... at the marriage of ...
To RSVP and select your gift, please go to website http://www.greedynuptials.com/regs?wedcode=A37F285D There will also be links customized for the particular wedding -- maps and directions, formal-wear (or scuba gear, etc., as the case may be) rental businesses, and (for out-of-towners) travel-booking services and wedding-locale restaurants and attractions.
Has MM addressed these new Terrible Ideas? I realize that they're moot because they're already Incorrect by the general rule of registries only being allowed for weddings. However, they would seem to be a ripe target for specific mention anyway. Maybe she should start issuing annual supplements to her books in between major editions, like the Oxford English Dictionary does.
General comment unrelated to your post but stuck here due to laziness: At least bridal registries is one of those rare easy etiquette issues, because it's Allowed yet compliance is entirely optional, and there's no need for the two sides of opinion (helpful, practical Good Idea vs.
presumptuous, tasteless Bad Idea) to agree.
===== Rick =====
"Diedrich Kohl" dri...@telussWith1S.net
On 5 Apr 2002 05:50:26 GMT, Elizabeth M. Levin wrote: Yes, and it's good that you added this important point. I see that someone could easily interpret my phrasing otherwise.
Or muu-muus?
You know, there's a good example of a valid, genuine "local custom".
They're a correct traditional dress option in Hawaii for many social functions (not just luaus!), but I would argue that that doesn't apply anywhere else. (Though an exception would be a Hawaiian-themed event held elsewhere, since in that case it's more of a costume/theme issue than a "dress-code" issue in the usual sense. It seems to me that your example shower suggestively falls into this category.) The bride should not say "Mahalo" for gifts, though, or some guests could think that it means she doesn't want the gift and intends to throw it in a trashbin.
===== Rick =====
m ...@wopr.caltech.edu (Matthew Hunt)
Will the china and silver go bad before they do? Would it be better for them to start with service for 4, and then buy service for 6 (from scratch, because their pattern is discontinued) when they have kids, and then service for 12 (again, from scratch) when they have grandkids? It seems to me that china and silver are a fine wedding gift, which actually have a chance of still being in use on the 50th anniversary. Try that with bed linens or a frypan.
I am agreed on most of your other points about registries, however.
Matt, who had a lovely Thanksgiving dinner on china, thanks to his married 20-something friends.
ele ...@ripco.com (Elizabeth M. Levin)
: > To address another thread, we (the friends throwing the shower) intend to : > wear Hawaiian print sundresses, and we found cute invitations in a very : > "tropical" style, so we figure that will sort of hint in the right : > direction. We guess people will show up in everything from reasonably nice : > shorts to sundresses.
: Or muu-muus?
In fact, yes. One of the organizers just got back from Hawaii, and has the _prettiest_ muu-muu. I really hadn't thought of such a thing being possible, but it really is pretty and the cut is flattering. It looks basically nothing like the polyesther creations to be found in the sleepwear section of my local store. Cool.
: You know, there's a good example of a valid, genuine "local custom".
: They're a correct traditional dress option in Hawaii for many social : functions (not just luaus!), but I would argue that that doesn't apply : anywhere else. (Though an exception would be a Hawaiian-themed event : held elsewhere, since in that case it's more of a costume/theme issue : than a "dress-code" issue in the usual sense. It seems to me that your : example shower suggestively falls into this category.) We thought it did. While I think we simply word it differently, I do think we are closer to agreement on "local customs", though I might be more permissive, or possibly just inured.
: The bride should not say "Mahalo" for gifts, though, or some guests : could think that it means she doesn't want the gift and intends to : throw it in a trashbin.
Mostly, we intended to carry out the theme by having cute invitations, a pineapple upside-down cake, teriyaki chicken, leis, and nice sundresses.
Beyond that, I'm afraid we intend to ask our guests to simply have a good time, and add their recipe card to the scrapbook.
E. Levin
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
"userb3" use...@yahoo.com
On 5 Apr 2002 18:37:46 GMT, Matthew Hunt wrote: But 20 years olds are more likely to actually need and use sheets or a frying pan. I think it would be more appropriate for them to buy china for themselves after they've settled into a lifestyle that justifies fine china. In the meantime, its just one more box of stuff to haul from apartment to apartment or house to house.
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userb3 I'm all for family values. I think each family should be able to live by their own values with no interference from the government.
totot ...@mail.pacificcoast.net (Uncle Mandrake)
Hm. I'd suggest a copy of one of the older editions of "Joy of Cooking" that explains *how* to put the recipes together. (The more recent editions aren't a patch on the old ones when it comes to this didactic stuff.) To really make that a *really* wonderful gift (it's a very good and thoughtful one as it stands), add a little card that says "call me if and when you want a lesson in making Welsh rarebit and I'll show you all the little tricks involved in getting it just right." I'm thinking here of details like having the double boiler *above* the hot water, not touching it; and having the hot water only on the simmer, not a full boil.
--
Uncle Mandrake Victoria, BC, Canada
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