Mental State of LHO Bipolar I Disorder

Russ and Carrie Burr l...@foxvalley.net

James, Bipolar disorder doesn't mean that one has manic episodes! Bipolar refers to mood swings....it all depends on severity of emotions and the cognition's that accompany them (not to mention the biochemistry changes in the brain)....and many bipolar patients can have many years without the appearance of symptomatic behaviors. It all depends on the stressors (which vary from person to person) that can exacerbate the disorder.
If you're using the DSM IV or V, please don't take it literally. There are many variations to this disorder....it's as individual as a fingerprint.
The only true way to ascertain if one is bipolar, whether it's bipolar NOS or the many variations, is how they respond to specific psychotropic medication.
Oswald had many behavioral characteristics of bipolar in the summer and fall of 1963. But that's just my opinion based on my training and experience as a psychologist.
Respectfully, Russ

Russ and Carrie Burr rcb...@foxvalley.net

"James K. Olmstead" Thp...@onecom.com

1. Name all the Bipolar behavioral characteristics that were present during the summer and fall of 1963, under the criteria established for each of the various levels of the disorder with NOS (NO OTHER SYMPTOMS).
2. Since there were no indications of ANY medication taken by Lee during this period, how can there be any evaluation of what variation of the behavioral disorder you apply to Lee's behavior? You don't meet your own criteria, since your opinion is based on evaluation of the REACTION of medications, used to treat the disorder and Lee was NOT taking medicaiton in relationship to the disorder criteria.
3. The criteria established by the DSM listings for the disorder seem well thought out for each of the levels of the disorder. List your criteria as a comparison to the DSM listings of criteria for the disorder. What makes your list a better standard of evaluation?
4. List all the stress factors used to formulate your opinion that the Bipolar I Disorder NOS was present in Lee's behavior.
jko Russ and Carrie Burr <l...@foxvalley.net> wrote in message ...
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prwhit ...@yahoo.com

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drugs, such as marijuana), but Oswald was seemingly adverse to booze, and there is no evidence he used any other drugs in 1963, although there was that Rolling Stone report suggesting that he had inquired as to whether or not LSD was still legal or not. That incident (if it happened) strongly suggested that Oswald might have been exposed to LSD while in the military, and possibly with the intention of controlling him after he was released. As to the lack of any known manic episodes, you would think that there was enough stress in Oswald's life, beginning at an early stage, and all the way up to his death, to set off at least one manic episode, requiring hospitalization. BTW, a lot of "good people" have been diagnosed with manic depression, including actress Patty Duke, the artist Pollack (the subject of a new movie), and billionaire Ted Turner. - Peter Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

"James K. Olmstead" Thp...@onecom.com

Peter: Mood swings based on normal activities, family problems, employment or legal actions are factors of consideration in ANY individuals behavior patterns......but these are not indications of Bipolar I Disorder.
If this is so just about everybody in the US could be considered as having this disorder at some time or another.
On this point I think Russ is way off base even if he is a professional in this area...I think he has used the symtoms of the disorder to paint a false image that supports his established view, one that was based on Hartogs evaluation, that was INCOMPLETE.
jko

Russ Burr Russ_mem...@newsguy.com

James, I didn't base my diagnosis on Hartog's evaluation. I base it on my professional experience.....plus, I have been diagnosed with bipolar NOS!
I don't completly fit the DSM criteria. But it rears it's ugly head when specific stressors occur. Fortunately I take meds that control, to a great degree, the behavior and cognitions that manifest itself whenever these stressors occur.
As far as your earlier post to me, I will get to it as soon as I can....but please realize that I never said that Oswald was bipolar....only that he had traits of this disorder.
Russ

Russ and Carrie Burr rcb...@foxvalley.net

Wrong...NOS does not mean no other symptoms. It means NOT OTHERWISE SPECIFIED.
Which means it is a mood disorder that fits no other category or symptoms of mood disorder that do not meet the criteria of any specific mood disorder.
I'll get to the heart of your questions in another post.
What I was referring to was that if the appropriate meds were used the symptoms would diminish. We can only infer, based on his behavior, that he had the traits of bipolar NOS. If untreated the person's symptoms would worsen over time.
I just wanted to be clear before I proceed in another post.
Russ

Russ and Carrie Burr rcb...@foxvalley.net

James, This is a little bit more of definative in regards to symtoms of a bipolar individual: Bipolar disorder is often not recognized by the patient, relatives, friends, or even physicians. An early sign of manic-depressive illness may be hypomania--a state in which the person shows a high level of energy, excessive moodiness or irritability, and impulsive or reckless behavior.
Hypomania may feel good to the person who experiences it. Thus, even when family and friends learn to recognize the mood swings, the individual often will deny that anything is wrong.
In its early stages, bipolar disorder may masquerade as a problem other than mental illness. For example, it may first appear as alcohol or drug abuse, or poor school or work performance.
If left untreated, bipolar disorder tends to worsen, and the person experiences episodes of full-fledged mania and clinical depression.
One of the usual differential diagnoses for bipolar disorder is that the symptoms (listed below) are not better accounted for by Schizoaffective Disorder and is not superimposed on Schizophrenia, Schizophreniform Disorder, Delusional Disorder, or Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
And as with nearly all mental disorder diagnoses, the symptoms must cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
Russ

"James K. Olmstead" Thp...@onecom.com

As I suspected you selected criteria of a disorder and applied the bipolar disorder towards Lee's mental state and behavior becaused you liked aspects of the disorder NOT that they in fact apply to Lee.
DSM-IV: Bipolar I Disorder, Most Recent Episode Unspecified Diagnostic criteria for 296.7 Bipolar I Disorder, Most Recent Episode Unspecified A. Criteria, except for duration, are currently (or most recently) met for a Manic, a Hypomanic, a Mixed, or a Major Depressive Episode.
B. There has previously been at least one Manic Episode or Mixed Episode.
C. The mood symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
D. The mood symptoms in Criteria A and B are not better accounted for by Schizoaffective Disorder and are not superimposed on Schizophrenia, Schizophreniform Disorder, Delusional Disorder, or Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
E. The mood symptoms in Criteria A and B are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).
Of the criteria you LIKE C. The mood symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
Because you hope that this element of criteria covers all the UNKNOWN factors relating to Lee's behavior, so you DON'T have to evaluate the conflicting behavior patterns exhibited by Lee in his known actions.
we used to call this a "cop out" jko ...

Russ and Carrie Burr rcb...@foxvalley.net

If you're intent on insulting me than I see no point in continuing this thread.
You completely disregard my 25 years of experience. And you call this a cop out. I spent hours last night reviewing the literature and decided I was WRONG.
But it's so easy for you to say I'm wrong because you have the DSM IV, as I do.
But you have no experience in this area and you don't know the many variations of bipolar NOS. You base it solely on what's in the DSM manual and it's not that simple.
Since you seem to know it all, why don't you give your diagnosis of Oswald instead of insulting me in the past two posts.
RB

prwhit ...@yahoo.com

Marine duty. As you know, the Marines pride themselves in being very, very tough on recruits (see the movie FULL METAL JACKET), and I doubt if they would have put up with the characteristics you ***ociate with Lee, which he would have started displaying at a young age presumably, not AFTER his release from the Marines. - Peter Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Russ and Carrie Burr rcb...@foxvalley.net

I agree with you on this. I stayed up quite late reading the literature wrt bipolar and I was wrong. I did find some interesting information in Hollaway's book, "The Mind of Oswald" along with some other information from the journals I was reading last night. I'll post it this evening.
Russ

"James K. Olmstead" Thp...@onecom.com

Russ: I have told you in the past that you have disappointed me in your work, the last few posts should not be any shock to you, that my opinion of your 25 years of experience means nothing to me based on your expressed views. The last straw was your acceptance of unsupported hearsay over the knowledge of your friend Ruth Paine......you just about called her a liar because in the 9-10 months prior to the death of Oswald....he never hit Marina or was she aware of any other beating.
I'm glad you reviewed the literature.....which is WHAT I DID based on the effort to understand your position presented. I do not take the word of ANYONE on issues of controversy....nor do I form ANY opinion until I have the chance to examine all angles surrounding the event.
I found you wrong and I expressed my opinion that I found your diagnois in error.
I have continued, in all my posts dealing with this topic, to express that I'm not a professional in this area, I do not claim to be one nor have I ever claimed to be. The DSM established the criteria...not me but I can and did take the standards and applied those standards to my knowledge of Lee's actions. There are variations of the disorder......but you did not mention them....you selected a specific area of the disorder 296.8 BIPOLAR I NOS, so should I deal with the other 7, when you don't? I'm not a mind reader.....or are you just pissed that I have access to the DSM criteria? It's not hard to come by.
Nor are books on the topic.
I don't know it all nor have I stated that I do......so now your just pissed that you were wrong and somebody caught your error. As to presenting my views they will be on my website in part and in my films.
jko Russ and Carrie Burr <rcb...@foxvalley.net> wrote in message ...

"James K. Olmstead" Thp...@onecom.com

You do not have to expand any farther, you admited that you were wrong.......and I do not expect you to want further exchange.
jko Russ and Carrie Burr <rcb...@foxvalley.net> wrote in message ...

Russ and Carrie Burr rcb...@foxvalley.net

From Marina's WCT: QUOTE: Mrs. OSWALD. At my attempt at suicide, Lee struck me in the face and told me to go to bed and that I should never attempt to do that--only foolish people would do it.
ENDQUOTE QUOTE: Mr. RANKIN. What did he say?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember.
Basically, that I prefer others to him. That I want many things. which he cannot give me. But that was not so. Once we had a quarrel because I had a young man who was a boyfriend--this was before we were married, a boy who was in love with me, and I liked him, too. And I had written him a letter from here. I had---I wrote him that I was very lonely here, that Lee had changed a great deal, and that I was sorry that I had not married him instead, that it would have been much easier for me. I had mailed that letter showing the post office box as a return address. But this was just the time when the postage rates went up by one cent, and the letter was returned. Lee brought that letter and asked me what it was and forced me to read it. But I refused. Then he sat down across from me and started to read it to me. I was very much ashamed of my foolishness. And, of course, he hit me, but he did not believe that this letter was sincere. He asked me if it was true or not, and I told him that it was true. But he thought that I did it only in order to tease him. And that was the end of it. It was a very ill-considered thing.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall anything more that he said at that time about that matter?
Mrs. OSWALD. Of course after he hit me, he said that I should be ashamed of myself for saying such things because he was very much in love with me. But this was after he hit me.
ENDQUOTE QUOTE: Senator RUSSELL. Did he beat you on many occasions?* *Mrs. OSWALD. Rather---many.
Senator RUSSELL. Well, you only testified to one, did you not, before the Commission?* *Mrs. OSWALD. I was rather embarr***ed to discuss this before the Commission, but he beat me on more than on one occasion.
Senator RUSSELL. And you stated at that time that you bruise very readily and that's the reason you had such a bad black eye? Did you not testify to that?* ** *Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Senator RUSSELL. Was that true or not true?* *Mrs. OSWALD. It is true it is--whatever I said.
Senator RUSSELL. It is true that you bruise easily, but that was just one of many occasions he had beat you?* *Mrs. OSWALD. On one occasion; yes.
Senator RUSSELL. But you didn't testify to the others, did you?
*Mrs. OSWALD. I think I testified only about one particular occasion that I was asked about, whether he beat me or not, and I replied that he did, but he beat me on more than one occasion.
ENDQUOTE Hearsay, you say.................
What journel articles did you read? Or did you just read the DSM IV?
You think I don't have the DSM IV? I just don't take it literally as you do nor do most professionals in my field. It's simply a tool. But you sit up in your ivory tower as an arm chair psychologist and believe that since the DSM says it so, it has to be true.
I'm not pissed. I caught my own error, not you and I'm glad I did. And it sure as hell had nothing to do with the DSM "criteria" your so fond of misusing.
Good luck....and could you lessen your ego a bit?
RB

"James K. Olmstead" Thp...@onecom.com

First you indicated that you were taking the words of other that KNEW the Oswalds not Marina. However, testimony on a dead man is considered hearsay, regardless of who gives the testimony. That individual can not respond........however the testinmony of Marina has value.....it is the non-testimony of the un-named others that is in question....as to the incidents you mention What was the date of this incident?
The incident calls for some type of action on the part of Lee, suicide is a serious action and immediate response may not always be the right response.....however if Lee hit her in relationship to the act of suicide it is NOT a case of being evidence of being a wife beater as you want to present him.
When was this incident.......how close was it to the suicide.......these factors need to be presented to show the pattern Only testified as to one "beating"?
Look at your own post here Russ......Marina is doubted....she testified on the "Sucide Beating" and the "Former Lover Beating" but the indications are that both are the same since she confirms "On one occasion" If she bruised easy all the signs of the beatings would be noted. What was the time frame differance between these two testimonys? How many times has aspects of her story changed over the years?
What articles I've read or the books on my shelves have no real bearing, I was presenting the criteria for this disorder and the DSM shows my point.
All referance material is just a tool....but I did not reach the wrong conclusion using that tool. Actually I have a beige two story and I sit in a black leather chair......but the point is that tools are available for use.....regardless if you have the sheepskin or are part of the profession. I use all the tools available in my research.
misusing.
How long did it take you to find your error.....who questioned your position? If you only found it last night it was a direct result of my post not by any seperate effort on your part. The "criteria" are the foundations of evaluation.....they seem to be good ones to me. Your "criteria" in another post response presented very little that countered the DSM "criteria".
Why should I change my opinion of myself and my work to accept the errors of others?
jko

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