Minorities and Private schools
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"TheMan" nore...@noreply.com
Why are the arse-licking minority in here telling us that Private schooling is a better system??
A majority of Australians send their kids to public school, you arse-lickers seem to be disappointed by this fact and think Mark Latham supporting public schools rather then the chardonnay sipping private school minority will damage his support you have to be ****ing kidding me.
Grow up idiots, the public school system is here to stay.
-TheMan-
"Diabolik" diabo...@nospam.com
Private schools should be exactly what they were meant to be.
PRIVATE, and paid entirely by the attendee's parents.
It's like subsidising a private company, it doesn't make sense.
Bernardz Bernard_...@REMOVEhotmail.com
Originally they were paid for by the government. The government used to give a bit of land to a group in exchange they would use the proceeds of the land to educate the kids.
It does make sense like privatising a hospital or a prison. Its cheaper to let a private company to do it then the government.
--
Democracy is more important then justice.
26th saying of Bernard
ralph rstead...@no.geocities.spam.com
Because we are not all retarded racist supporters of that idiot Pauline Hanson?
Watch and see - he's got some back-peddling to do - there's no votes telling outer suburban voters they are part of the "rich elite" because they choose to send their kids to a Catholic school. Sorry dumb****, your cl*** warfare bullshit just won't wash in this debate.
Yes ... and so are private schools.
"flange" fo...@hotmail.com
One would hope so. If only to support Labor's consistent pursuit of mediocrity.
But if the State system is so good then why do a lot of Labor politicians and union heavies send their kids to private schools.
"Steel Golem" thoughtl...@plantthoughful.org
In your opinion...Why aren't kids who go to private schools entitled to the same government funding as those kids who go to public schools? (therefore why should their parents for YOUR kids education as well as their own?) And should Private Hospitals get no govt funding? With no govt funding both of these systems would collapse...and the public systems would then also collapse with the sudden influx of students/patients...
"Diabolik" diabo...@nospam.com
Do you know the meaning between PRIVATE and PUBLIC?
Because they are Private? It's their choice to go to a Private school.
Why should I fund a Private Catholic/Protestant/whatever school?
No, they are private.
If people want to go to private Hospitals, they should pay for it.
It's their choice.
The private schools would still exist because they would be self-funded, like they used to be.
Fees would just be higher.
That's how PRIVATE companies usually work ;) The public system will benefit and get better with more funding.
...and the public systems would then also
"Diabolik" diabo...@nospam.com
Privatisation means entirely private, not government funded.
So why dosen't the government do the same with companies?
Are companies funded by the government?
It's the same concept.
"The Enlightenment" bernx...@yahoo.com.au
I'm not sure that up in the Nth of Queensland you'd be aware of the issues in the Southern state cities.
Because many (not all) public schools in NSW are as good as they were when I attended one. In fact many now are shocking. In Sydney there are still fairly consistently some good schools in the Nth Shore and Sutherland Shire but outside those areas things get very patchy to outright disaster zones.
Its not that private schools are getting better its that public schools are now viewed as terrible by many parents who can recognize them from the ones they attended as children.
A case in point. A public school in around the Auburn area would have out of every 100 children at most 3 Australians or Europeans.
Some 20% of the additional teachers would be ESL (English as a Second Language) teachers. This is everywhere in Sydney where I believe only 60% of children would belong to Australian born parents.
That's where all the resources are going. That's why the student teacher ratio is shithouse and why teachers complaint about not being paid enough.
That's the half of it. Bullying and discipline problems are rife.
Recently the principle of Beverly Hills high retired under workers compensation because of discipline problems and ethnic related murders. Bilal Skaif, though from Bankstown High would drop by.
(Bilal Skaif, Relatives and Friends were recently convicted of a spate of Gang rapes of Girls) To much diversity is another. Only those that can't afford white flight leave their kids in schools in which they will be minorities not even exposed to their own culture.
The other issue is that if you have a child who is average in some areas or who is struggling in any way, for instance in keeping up in an area for a while he can't get any additional help because the public schools resources are now self absorbed with "ESL", "Intellectual Moderates", "Emotionally Disturbed" etc. The extreme cases absorb all of the energies.
Schools performance I suspect is far more determined by the quality of the students in the suburb and their parents than "teachers" and we now have areas of high cl*** and ethnic stratification in this country and that shows up strongly in public schools.
The problem is that parents are voting with their feet to avoid public schools. At the moment a public school costs around $5500/ year per student. That comes from all tax payers including those that have all their children in private schools. Private schools receive non on going money. They do receive some help with a facility upon application: repairing a roof or adding a hall. I believe it works out at less than $1000 year.
Note that an up market school could cost 12000 to 16,000 (Barker or Scotts College) Though many are much less than this $6000 year.
Thus private school parents are subsidizing public schools.
As the drift from public to private occurs as more parents will resent the cross subsidies.
My old school in the Sutherland Shire had few problem students and certainly no serious ones. Sixty second fist fights (no guns, knives or insults of mother or sister) were about it.
These aren't the good public schools I and many Australians were brought up in.
Do you put your child in one?
"TheMan" nore...@noreply.com
Telling the minority that they are the rich elite?
Why do you have problems understanding that the large majority of people send their kids to public schools, and MAJORITIES win elections.
It's like when John Howard told the asylum shoppers on the Tampa to go elsewhere... he lost the eletist minority voters and gained majority Australian voters.
-TheMan-
"TheMan" nore...@noreply.com
I do not know about specific cases of Public schools. I have no doubt Sydney has a bad schooling problem, but that is Sydney not the entire of Australia.
As for students of different cultures going to different schools I have no doubt the top private schools in Sydney would have a very large asian population anyway as the parents usually put everything towards getting the most from their kids. A lot of the "bad" kids are also sent to private schools to turn them into good individuals.
I can understand the idea of private schools being supported so that parents will choose to send their kids into them and save the government money, but I do not like the idea of purposely stuffing up the public schooling system by cutting funds and purposely making it a failure.
-TheMan-
"DBDriver" DBDri...@iig2.com.au
This is not really a good comparison. The first bloke compares $/Student and you respond with % breakdowns of the private school income. Of course they could both be correct. It would just imply that the private school system was more efficient ; an argument I'm sure a lot of people would use in favour of privatised institutions.
What you need is a comparison based on common grounds in terms which mean something to normal taxpayers. It is their money after all. I actually think the $/student subsidy is the easiest for most people to understand. Do you have any comparative information (I guess by state) on this data?
RJ.
"name" n...@name.com
And it is the majority that want to sent their kids to private schools, something Lathem is wanting to make harder.
"name" n...@name.com
In many cases, yes.
Private bus companies for example are subsidised.
Many small businesses start with a government grant.
Greig gre...@bgpnd.com
According to my BOTE calculation, acoross Australia each public school student receives about $5500/year of public funding, and each private school student receives $3420/year of public funding.
Greig gre...@bgpnd.com
Do you have any evidence that anyone is trying to purposely stuff up the public school system? Can you please provide evidence that the government is "cutting funds".
Greig gre...@bgpnd.com
Privatisation of community services does not mean that they are no longer funded by the public. It just means that aspects of the management of the business is provided by a private company as a service, and the government pays the private company for the service.
They do. This is how prisons and hospitals are run. Private companies supply specific services which are paid for by the community through public funds.
No, they are paid to provide a service to the community.
Diabolik, it is clear that you do not understand the dynamics of public funding in schools. Think of it this way: If less public money was allocated to private schools and redistributed to state schools, then private school fees would go up, or the quality of private school education would go down. Either way, there is less incentive for a parent to pay fees for a private school education, and students would transfer from the private system to the state system. This is turn would consume public money, the redistributed public money which is going to the state schools.
Importantly, less money is offered voluntarily by parents to pay for the child's education.
Taking this scenario to the extreme, if no public money went to private schools, then they may become prohibitively expensive so all students would attend state schools. In that case no money is offered voluntarily by parents to pay for the child's education.
Conversely, if you give more money to private schools then they can reduce fees and/or increase the education quality. More students leave the state system for the private system, and more parents voluntarily contribute to their child's education.
The direct result of increasing the proportion of public money given to private schools, is it causes an increase in the amount of money voluntarily contributed by parents, and results in a proportional decrease in the overall amount of public money being spent on schools.
The problem with the above scenario, is that it tends to improve the quality of education for those in the private system, and decrease the quality for those in the public system.
Therefore funding for schools follows a line balanced between 1. reducing the public spend on education, and replacing this with an equal quantity of money contributed voluntarily by parents, and 2. maintaining a minimum standard of education in the state school system.
There is no right or wrong answer, it is just a balancing act. In my opinion the current governments (federal and state) have a viable policy.
Greig gre...@bgpnd.com
Why do you have problems understanding that the large majority of people understand that decreasing funding to private schools will also decrease the quality of education in public schools.
And MAJORITIES win elections.
Mike Price mi...@nospamiinet.net.au
Bullshit it is! Do the attemdees parents not pay tax? Does the attendees parents tax not go to paying for government schools too?
Would the attendees parents generally pay MORE tax than the parents of Government School kids? This sounds more like the wealthy paying for the less wealthy again.
The only way I would support no government funding for Private Schools would be if the parents of attendees got a tax rebate for every child they put through such a school
"TheMan" nore...@noreply.com
Please phone your local public school
-TheMan-
"TheMan" nore...@noreply.com
And most private schools cost $4000+ year per student.
Either the private schools are ripping people off, or the public schools are not being funded enough money.
-TheMan-
"The Enlightenment" bernx...@yahoo.com.au
SNIP Australia.
Indeed, but Sydney is where the voting power is and that is where the school problems are unfortunately and that is driving the situation in the rest of Australia.
Schooling in Sydney was once divided along only two religious/ethnographic lines. Catholic and Public. Most people attended a good public school system, then there was a Catholics system which was no better, had some sadistic nuns but satsified the need for Catholic and Irish had. Then there were the up market often Anglican Grammars (that offered scholarships to the less fotunate) and a small number of selective schools.
Now we have Muslim schools and many others catering to various demograhics.
There is also demand for private schools often from parents that believed they had a great public education.
Asians can be of variable quality. The East aisans (chinese) and Indians (due to very high concentration of professional parents) tend to do very well.
High concentrations of middle easterners and islanders seem to produce most of the probems but there are pockets of SE asian and Vietnamese (from bad to excellent) trouble as well.
Most of the dross seems to have come in under the excesses of Keatings and Hawkes Immigration policies. ( The stupidity of their policies matched their pump the economy with deficit finaced money and control the inflation with super high interest rates policy.) I've heard of Parents who have turned away from certain selective schools and certain private schools because of the very high concentraion of asians. They aren't particularly racist they just don't want their child a minority "Aussie" or exposed to an extensive "swating" study culture that excludes the degree of balance in other aspects of life they desire.
Since some of Australias eltie schools are becoming 50% to 60% asian.
This has implrications as to who will be the Australian elite in the next decade or two.
I worked in Germany in 1993 and parents told me that Private schools were regarded as for troubled children there but that system was excellent back then.
One Australian parent told me that she just couldn't get the help she needed for one of her children. He was a kid, phyiscally bigger than others, he seems sweet and polite to me but is apparently struggling in some areas. There is no one to help him in the public system because the resources are all spent of ESL or the extereme cases.
Neither do I. However it looks like it that the up market private schools will be receiving up to 55% of the costs of a public school child.
People are now of different cultures, races, religions and the differences in intellectual abilities seem to have spread out as well as we have become more stratified socially. People attending private schools and busting a gut to pay the fees are growing greater in number and they will eventualy demand more public money.
I don't think there is a going back.
Greig gre...@bgpnd.com
Some private schools have fees up to $15,000 /year !
It is up to parents to decide whether they are being ripped off. I pay $6000/year for each of my kids to go to a private school, and I consider the money well spent. It is my choice. That's the point.
That is possible, but there is only so much tax payer funding to go around. Unless you want higher taxes. Higher taxes do not get votes.
Spot the dilemma?
Greig gre...@bgpnd.com
Please provide some evidence for your ***ertion that someone "is trying to purposely stuff up the public school system", and that the government is "cutting funds".
Note: By your standards making bold statements without any factual basis is LYING. So I look forward to you proving to us that you are not a liar, and that you follow the principles that you preach.
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