oops she did it again
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Frannie frannie69...@yahoo.com
Well..I am growing some balls...My 12 year old did it again..home not 5 or 10 minutes late..home 4 hours late..no phone calls..nothing. I talked to her about it. I asked her if she had even onmce thought while she was out having fun what her consequences might be since she knew she was late. She had no thoughts on it at all. I then asked her that because a normal grounding for being late is a day per minute late, how the thoughts of that many days being grounded for being 4 hours late would have felt. Again no answer. When she waltzed in the door she said "Yeah I know..I'm grounded"..which infuriated me..lol..I had become that predictable. I explaioned to her that this was it...she knows I will cave and do what she wanted which is to let her go when she whines. So this is it. I took away her CD player and she's been grounded..to her room when she is not either at school, eating doing the bathroom deal or when I let her come out. I never set the amount of days..but the CD player is mine for 6 months. When I told her that part she said "Yeah, I figured you'd take that away from me" I still think she thinks I will cave. And I am going to ask her every day if she has thought about it any more. I want it to constantly be on her mind for the next few days.
oh..and Steve...I don't even want to hear a word from you on this.
This is advance notice...I DON'T GIVE A ****!
Frannie
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe cather...@whitepine.com
Be prepared. Tomorrow, she may start the usual whining. In a week, it will be, "when do I get off grounding? I'm boooorrrrrred." Be ready to stick to your guns.
Kitten
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe cather...@whitepine.com
Chewy said to plant roses, raspberries, or blackberries under the kids' bedroom windows.
Kitten
Steve rste...@armory.com
If you DON'T cave consider her other options!! Hundreds of thousands of kids leave home exactly for this cause!!
---------------------------
Yeah, **** you. That's what your daughter is going to say when you take enough away and she just leaves. That's what's next, you know.
All they do is give up on ever having anything with you and ever being treated properly and when they realize they have nothing to stay for and that they can get treated a lot better even by a pimp, that's when they leave!!
Bye you ****ing shithead!
Steve
Steve rste...@armory.com
When they leave they go out the front door.
Steve
"D. C. Sessions" d...@lumbercartel.com
Cholla. Prickly pear will grow dang near ANYWHERE.
Besides, the blossoms are beautiful and the fruit is tasty.
--
| I'm old enough that I don't have to pretend to be grown up.| +----------- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ----------+
petya_frem ...@bulgaria.com (PF)
As a former teenager, I have a comment to make here. :-) One day per minute is a lot. It's "Do or die". Either she complies 100% or she faces draconian punishment, and it's a program that you have difficulty sticking to. Why not try, say, one week per incident, or some other schedule that might make you appear more reasonable to her and might be easier for you to follow through with?
[...] IMHO, you're making a couple of mistakes here. 1) Set a definite penalty period, so *you* and she will both know whether you're sticking to your guns and so that she will know exactly what she's facing the next time she has to make the decision to come home on time or not. 2) Don't use multiple measures; have a simple, predictable penalty; No CD player for six months is big. Staying home is big.
Staying in her room is big. Does this big-big-big punishment fit the crime? What will you do if her behavior gets worse? 4) "When I let her come out" is not predictable, is whinable, and is a case of making up the rules as you go along. Don't do it.
I suggest that you sit down with a reader on behavior modification, do some thinking about what might constitute reasonable punishment and about what your goals are, and come up with a program that you and your child can live with. It's sound to me as though you're all over the place with this, and your child probably knows it and will continue to exploit your confusion and lack of direction.
Steve rste...@armory.com
B. F. Skinner who coined that term himself says that negative reinforcement doesn't work and that the only thing that works is positive reinforcement. He says that negative reinforcement only makes test animals and humans mean and unpredictable.
All you are doing is pushing them away when you punish. They will all the more quickly give up on you and do more and worse the next time, they figure they have nothing at all to lose. The more you take from them the less they want from you but to hurt you.
All humans resent being controlled. If you try to control you will lose!
Steve
"just me" thedewi...@earthlink.net
It's a really good thing that you are determined not to cave in to whining.
It is equally important that you make the consequences something that your child can see her way out of. In other words, not something that is so long that they cannot even imagine the end in sight. At that point it becomes counterproductive and a growing source of tension in the household.
What I suggest is that you and your spouse sit down and develop a simple [under twelve] list of household rules. Rules could include things like curfews, meal attendance, whatever. Make sure they are the important things, not picky things. Then, discuss between you two what you think are *reasonable* consequences for violation of house rules. Then, have a family/house meeting to present them to all. Post them. It then is well known by all what happens when something is not done to expectation. This takes the whining down a notch when the consequences are instituted. It also helps prevent over-reactions by tired irate parents. Also, after the rules are established and the violations are few, be willing to negotiate on occasion [gee, there's this dance on Friday but the curfew is 9, could we have it at midnight that time?]
-Aula
Steve rste...@armory.com
All such strategies are the embodiment of hate, and this is always internalized in the child and their relationship with you, and you will pay for it three-fold or more later.
And in setting this up in them you delay and sidetrack their personal development as well.
No rules are ever an embodiment of love because love is flexible.
All they learn from your inflexibility is to be inflexible with you.
Steve
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe kit...@whitepine.com
Mmmmmmmm.... prickly pear jelly.... prickly pear milk shakes...
MMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe kit...@whitepine.com
Very good suggestion. We have our chore list posted on the refrigerator. There are six items there divided up two per day for each child - dogs/trash, dinner/laundry, dishes/floors. It helps a *lot*.
Kitten
"AJM&MEM" ami...@ix.netcom.com
I know that you were angry, I would be too. But did you explain to her that you were worried? That you were afraid something had happened to her?
Maybe if you approach it from that stand point, that you were concerned because you love her. That if something had happened to her, how could you live without her? Maybe then she will understand where your anger came from, it came from the fear that something had happened to her.
I then asked her I think that is alot of punishment. I would pick one thing and then stick with it. Taking away the CD player for 6 months would be too hard for me to stick to, too much time! LOL I would explain to her (in a rational, non confrontational voice) your concerns for her safety. Then I would maybe ground her from going out on weekends for a month (one weekend for every hour she was late). But confining her in her room without anything to do will only make her more resentful. If she starts the whining and the guilt-trip, tell her that she brought this on herself, not you. Tell her that you have nothing to do with this, she did this to herself. She did this when she selfishly stayed out for 4 hours and never even called you.
If she had called you, this would not have happened (she has to know that it's ok to call you when she is late. If she thinks you will get pissed off when she calls to say that she is late, she won't call). At least with a phone call you will know where she is and you could possibly pick her up.
The attitude is a typical teen.
Oh, you will hear from Steve. His ego would prevent him from staying away.
:-) Mary Ellen
louis ...@homeplc.com (louisa)
what worked for me [and I know kids are very different ] is my utter terror when my daughter failed to follow the very strict house rule about calling when she was going to be late. she was heretofore so reliable that when she didn't, I really did think something awful had happened and was very scared. she took it to heart that we CARE and need to know she is okay. she never failed to check in again when there was a problem.
we also made it very clear that we were there to rescue her if she got into an awkward situation e.g. friends drinking or doing something she didn't want to get involved in -- that we would rescue her without penalty or lots of questions.
"AJPDLA" ajp...@yahoo.com
Why not just put some bars on the windows while you're at it, too.
AJPDLA
petya_frem ...@bulgaria.com (PF)
Sorry that you and Steve never got beyond Skinner. Keep reading.
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe kit...@whitepine.com
Nah. Roses, raspberries, and blackberries are all pretty *and* their edible. Bars are ugly and are hard to chew.
Kitten
"AJM&MEM" ami...@ix.netcom.com
P.S. The next time your daughter is late and she does call you to let you know, try not to get mad at her on the phone that she is late, thank her for calling you. I think it's important that she calls you and isn't afraid that you are going to start yelling on the phone. (I always hated calling home to tell my mom I was going to be late because she would get mad and hang up on me. So I stopped calling). Also with the call, you can find out where she is and you could possibly pick her up so that she isn't 4 hrs.
late.
I wouldn't keep reminding her why she is grounded, the more you "nag" the more she will tune you out. Set the guidelines of her punishment (grounding) make it clear why you are taking these measurements and don't bring it up again (unless she whines,etc.). And stick to it!
Your daughter must know that not only were you worried but that it was very rude and inconsiderate. What if her friend was 4 hrs. late picking her up or coming to her house? Wouldn't she be mad that the friend never even called to let her know? What if you were 4 hrs. late picking your daughter up at school? Or 4 hrs. later than the time you promised to take her somewhere? She would not be too happy! Whether this was done by a daughter, friend, spouse, boss, etc. it is very inconsiderate.
Mary Ellen
"MR Baugher" mbaug...@netzero.net
I'm mostly a lurker & haven't been a parent long (7 months experience as step-mom to a 9-1/2 year old).
I think that if the OP backs off completely from room grounding the kid will see that as confirmation that mom never means what she says.
I'm also not totally against an open ended grounding. I usually set a specific limit on how long my DSD is in time-out but sometimes I don't.
With my DSD setting a specific limit to time-out means that she keeps asking if the time is up or knows that she only has to keep quiet 10, 20, or however minutes I've set & then she can joyfully go back to whatever behavior she was engaged in. 'Course I'm very good at sticking to what I say to her so she knows I'll follow through & that means that it must be really serious if I won't set a limit.
As an alternative, what about room grounding for a week & house grounding for a month. This way the OP will have followed through on what she said.
And by staging the penalty it may keep the kid from beefing the first week out of her room.
Just my opinion. :) Take care of yourself, Melody ...
"AJM&MEM" ami...@ix.netcom.com
<snipped for length> I tell my kids that too, if they are in a situation that they are uncomfortable with, they can always use me as an excuse "I have to call my mom" or something like that in order to get out of the situation. They can make me look like the "bad guy".
Last year my (then ) 7th grader really wanted to go to this dance. None of the girls she usually hung around with were going and she went with a girl she knew from elementary school (and some other girls she didn't know very well). About 10 min. after she left, she called me to come and pick her up.
I was alarmed and asked her if she was ok. She said yes, just come and pick me up. So I went right over. We sat in the car and she was crying. Here, as soon as they got dropped off at the dance, the girl she knew says "hey guys, I have some beer" and they went to a graveyard next door to drink. My daughter didn't want to and that was when she called me. I was so relieved that she called me!! By this time she saw my nephew and some other girls she knew and decided to stay at the dance. I told her that I would pick her up. I was so proud and happy that she called me (and I told her this).
She told the other girls that she was feeling sick, they don't know that I know they were drinking.
Funny thing happened, my daughter ignored the "drinking girls" at the dance and they came over to her and apologized! Some of the girls said that they didn't want to drink and only pretended. Even in school that Monday, the girls came over to my daughter and apologized again. They said that they really aren't that way. I was surprised! I was worried that my daughter would be subjected to peer pressure. Here the girls were apologizing to my daughter! I told my daughter that they really respected her. They probably didn't want to drink but weren't strong enough to say no.
Mary Ellen
"dkjyy" dk...@austin.rr.com
I thought that was a good idea. The first time a friend of mine got caught sneaking out, her mom screwed the screen down so she couldn't get out! That is a fire hazard though.
Deanna
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe kit...@whitepine.com
I used to know a girl who snuck out of her parents' house several nights a week to meet her boyfriend. He'd honk his horn as he drove by the house, then park down the hill and wait for her. I can remember thinking then that I was glad my mom was the way she was and I didn't feel any need to sneak around. The friends I had who got into trouble had parents who were either totally authoritarian or allowed the kids to do anything they wished. Mom was right in the middle. Something to be said for middle ground.
Kitten
"Stephanie S" st...@vsac.org
Steve, I have a question. You often talk about treating you children like your friends. But your children will, on occ***ion, do things that you would never take from a friend. If a friend was 4 hours late and had teh ability to call, I would be pissed. I would tell them I was pissed and this it was majorly inconsiderate. The second time, I probably would not hang out with them anymore. That last little ol' consequence is just not something you can do with a child.
I do not beleive in manufacturing "consequences" that are not direct consequences of the action and then calling them "consequences." If the consequence is not something that would happen if they did the same behavior in the real world, then it is not a conequence, it is a punishment. This may be semantic bull shit, but I think it is important bull shit.
So if you cannot behave in a manner that is consistent with real world consequences what is left but punishment? And don't tell me that if you always treat your kid with respect and like a buddy that they will never do anything inconsiderate or worrisome. If your kids were like that, they were unusual or wimps.
Thanks S ...
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