Weird question - liquid diets vs. less food, more exercise!
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"Stephanie Sedgewick" purrbabies...@yahoo.com
Ok - I have a dilemma I hope you can solve for me! :-) I have been doing a liquid diet (hmr - the same as medifast or optifast, all protein shakes) for about a month. I have lost a lot of weight and love that. I still have about 45 pounds to lose.
hmr and all other liquid diets tell you to obtain your goal weight before reintroducing food. But I just don't think staying on all liquids for another few months is healthy. I also think I will have gross hanging skin because although I do walk, I can't really do any serious exercise.
My dilemma is this: We all have heard the horror stories about gaining weight back the minute you go off liquid and back on normal food. If I was to SLOWLY add in low fat protein and veggies but I drastically UPPED my exercise (say, 2-3 workouts a day, 30 mins each). Could I still continue to lose weight without doing all shakes?
I am just worried I can't lose weight in a normal way after eating 500 calories a day.... what do you guys think? How do I obtain my goal weight (I am not worried about keeping it off so much because I actually LOVE exercise and am not a big eater - I gained weight after an injury had me bedridden.) Thanks very much for any advice!
Thanks!
Stephanie
jjf ...@notmail.com (Jayjay)
On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:22:05 GMT, "Stephanie Sedgewick" The reason alot of people regain the weight after a liquid diet is this. They don't LEARN anything. THink about it. Think of your old eating habits. How you ate before you went on the hmr. How you ate when you got fat. See - that old way of eating made you fat.
If you (as in the person on hmr, not you personally) quit the hmr and then go back to your old eating habits - then you will get fat again.
Does that make sense to you?
If it does - then hopefully you are learning. See - you can never, and I mean NEVER go back to those old eating habits. They made you fat once, they will just continue to make you fat over and over again.
Each time gets worse too.
So - you need to change your eating habits all together. One thing that alot of the liquid diets fail to do is to educate the patients that they need to permanently change their eating habits.
Now - initially when you switch back to food you will probably see a slight gain and/or a drastic slowdown in the rate of weight loss.
500 calories is extreme.
But - if you add back slowly - and add in low fat proteins, lots of veggies, fruits, whole grains, legumes, etc and some unsaturated fats (which can be obtained from some fatty fish like salmon, tuna, etc).
And you keep the processed carbs, bleached flours, sugars, and processed foods to a minimum, and you keep your overall intake still low (about 1200 calories per day or so - we can discuss further a good range for *you* personally). You should still be able to lose weight, and because you are consuming more calories and protein - then you can also add in exercise in the form of cardio and weight training. Your weight loss may taper off and average out to about 1 to 2lbs a week - this is a healthy goal to try to achieve. The closer to goal weight you get, the harder it is to obtain. But - YOU CAN DO IT. Lots of us in here have done it and are doing it - you can too.
Welcome to the group - please post and ask questions. We'll do our best to help you out.
wmars ...@mtholyoke.edu (Wendy Marsden)
You will lose weight if you burn more calories than you consume.
One way to repair your damaged metabolism is to lift weights. You'll want to be eating something like 10x your weight in calories if you're going to start strenuous training, though, so perhaps that answers your question?
If you're on HMR you are working with a team of people, right? What do they say?
Wendy
Ignoramus19434 ignoramus19...@NOSPAM.19434.invalid
You should accept the fact that you will never be able to eat as much as you want, and whatever you want, for the rest of your life -- oir else you will regain your weight and more. Your life will always, for the first few years anyway, be such that you will b feeling somewhat hungry.
I would continue the diet in exactly the way it is designed to be, and take pride in having some willpower.
It is much easier to say that you will eat none of the forbidden foods, than start making exceptions.
i
"determined" bltNOS...@yahoo.com
IMO, this is complete and utter bullshit. It is a process of teaching your body to crave and be satisfied with healthier foods, and on less calories, but that doesn't take years. I never feel hungry, and I went from an average calorie intake of over 2000 calories to around 1200, in a matter of months. I still eat whatever I want, but if whatever I want happens to be something like a doughnut, you can be darned sure that it's in moderation and not frequent. EVERYTHING IS OK IN MODERATION.
The diet, as designed is for seriously overweight people and with only 45 lbs to lose, it's probably a good time to start learning how to eat. Plus, at 500 calories a day, there is no doubt in my mind that she is losing muscle m***, and it's time to start making up for that with more calories, protein, and weight lifting.
Your name really fits you.
det
Carol Frilegh c...@sympatico.ca
It's not a hooror story, just an observation and a repeat of a recent post. I had to go on soft foods, then liquids prior to a colonoscopy .
I lost three pounds and regained it eating as i normally would. I have been on maintenance for over three years.
--
Diva ************ Fourth year at goal
jjf ...@notmail.com (Jayjay)
Your situation is not the same as the op's situation. You did a temporary fast for medical reason, you did not follow a liquid meal replacement plan for months at a time in an effort to lose weight.
A 3 day fast will result in water loss due to glycogen store depletion, and that loss will be replenished as soon as your glycogen stores are replenished. This is not apples to apples. This is apples to fish.
wmars ...@mtholyoke.edu (Wendy Marsden)
I found that to be the least effective way to weight loss that I ever tried.
Seriously, I dieted myself to over 200 pounds using low calorie diets and willpower. Lots and lots of willpower. When I reached my target and relaxed my guard (willpower is only so good for so long) then WHAM the fat came back in spades, due to my newly reduced muscle m***.
Willpower is useless if you're using it to go down the wrong track.
I think the OP is showing some insight into her body's needs by wanting to exercise more and eat more calories.
I also don't think there's a single thing wrong with taking a year to lose 45 pounds. That's my two cents, anyway.
Wendy, down 45 pounds in 10 months
jjf ...@notmail.com (Jayjay)
On 1 Jul 2003 18:10:56 GMT, Ignoramus19434 YOu keep saying this. Maybe this is in your case. ANd maybe its because you are eating the wrong foods for your body.
For me - if I feel hungry - its usually because 1. I haven't eaten enough and need to eat. or 2. I've eaten the wrong types of food and find that it causes hunger.
One can diet without hunger. Many people do it successfully all the time. I say - if you are hungry - you need to re-evaluate *what* you are eating to find out why you are still hungry. Either change what you eat and/or how much you've eaten. In the liquid diets there comes a time when the dieter needs to add food back into their diet and learn how to eat again so that they do not gain weight. At this point in the OP's diet - it is probably a good time to begin the learning process.
"sme" eis...@tampabay.rr.com
Excellent post.
...
"sme" eis...@tampabay.rr.com
Not knowing which VLCD you are on I can't be specific. Medifast allows you to do a complete liquid fast (5 shakes a day) or 4 shakes a day and one meal. You will lose less weight if you add a meal.
Besides beeing very low calorie, Medifast also puts you into ketosis (like Atkins and other low carb diets).
If you do some shakes and go out of ketosis you won't lose as well, if at all.
You speak of the "horror stories" about people regaining after a VLCD. I call this the "Oprah Optifast Syndrome." Trouble is, you are wrong. Those who go on VLCDs have a HIGHER percentage of long term weight loss than regular dieters (this isn't saying much -- 95% of all dieters regain).
The key, as JayJay told you, is to learn a new way of eating when you DO reach goal. IMHO if you start doing your own thing at 45 pounds to go you probably won't reach your goal weight. Not saying the VLCD is the only way -- but you need a formal approach not a "I'll exercise more and eat less" general concept.
www.thin4ever.tsfl.com
"determined" bltNOS...@yahoo.com
Ketosis is not the bottom line of weight loss. It is not neccessary to be in ketosis to lose weight if you are eating less calories than you burn.
Carol Frilegh c...@sympatico.ca
That is so funny! I can't thibk of a more unappetizing combination.
"determined" bltNOS...@yahoo.com
You will lose weight as long as the calories you eat are less than the calories you burn. I don't know how much you weigh, but you should be able to eat between 8-10 calories per lb of body weight and still lose weight.
If your metabolism is shot, you might want to start doing weight lifting, even modestly, to help rebuild some muscle and rev up the metabolism.
Muscle burns a ton more than fat! You should be able to start reintroducing foods - slowly. I would suggest tracking calories religiously, at least at first. And, are you under a doc's care during the diet? You should be.
500 calories per day is catabolic, which means the body will burn muscle and conserve fat after awhile - starvation mode. This will cause your metabolism to go in the toilet. The gross hanging skin will not improve much with exercise, in my experience, but exercise is still what you need to be doing. You don't need to be doing 3 workouts per day. 45min to an hour 4-5 times a week is adequate, but if you feel like doing more, and have the energy to do so, go ahead.
det
purrbab ...@aol.com (PurrBabies)
You also kind of infer that if you go out of ketosis you will lose less weight.
I absolutely agree with this!! What I would like to know is, a. will you still lose less weight when you add a meal IF you DOUBLE your exercise?
b. will you still lose less weight when you add a meal if the meal is VERY LOW carbohydrate (chicken breast and greens) and you remain in ketosis?
Thanks!
Purr
purrbab ...@aol.com (PurrBabies)
SME - why DON'T you go into starvation mode while on Medifast? It would make sense that you would given the 500 cals a day...but I know that people keep on losing weight for months and months... why don't you go into starvation mode, what is the trick here?
Thanks Purr
jjf ...@notmail.com (Jayjay)
I'm not sme - but finding "proof" of "starvation mode" existing is hard. So, alot of people don't believe it exists. I'm not one of those people though
"dissonance" dissonance...@yahoo.SNIPME.ca
Hmmmmm, for me this in only partially true. I will never be able to eat anything I want, whenever I want (hey, if it was up to me, I'd be living on nothing but chocolate covered almonds right now), but I've worked out a WOE that very rarely leaves me hungry. Lots of fibre and keeping the 'good fats' at a decent level and eating enough protein. Keeps me full and satisfied.
I eat anything I want, as long as I take into account the calories and follow a 90/10 rule. If my diet is 90% clean, then 10% unhealthy crap is OK with me and keeps me happy (I just HAVE to work some good quality chocolate in once a week or so).
As with everything related to dieting, YMMV.
-dissonance
"sme" eis...@tampabay.rr.com
I highly recommend you go to the www.medifastdiet.com web site and read the entire FAQ. Again, I don't know if you are on Medifast, and the other VLCDs may be different. But here is what Medifast has to say: KETOSIS: The nutrient balance of Medifast combined with the low-calorie level causes the fat stores to release free fatty acids that are converted by the liver into an energy source called ketones. This mild state of "ketosis" helps the body achieve rapid weight loss while preserving muscle tissue. Ketosis also helps eliminate physical hunger while providing good levels of energy. Plan for about three days of being on Medifast for building the ketosis level. If you falloff the plan, it will generally take two to three days to rebuild the level again to the point where you no longer feel hunger or fatigue.
EXERCISE Can I exercise when I'm on Medifast? Yes, you can, but we suggest limiting the amount of exercise, especially in the beginning. It takes three to four weeks for the body to adapt to the Medifast plan and useg the fat stores for energy. During this time, too much exercise can cause dehydration as well as decrease your weight loss and harm your muscle tissue. If you haven't been exercising at all, wait three to four weeks until you have adapted to the Medifast program. Then start your exercise plan very slowly.
Begin with gentle walking, 10 to 20 minutes per day, and then gradually increase the amount. If you have been exercising prior to starting Medifast, cut your current plan by half during the first three weeks, then gradually build it back up.
While you are on Medifast, limit intense exercise such as running, biking or swimming to a total of 45 minutes a day. Over exercising will actually slow your weight-loss progress.
http://www.medifast.net/faq/
"sme" eis...@tampabay.rr.com
The Medifast plan uses the concept of a very low-calorie diet along with a high proportion of protein. This combination allows your body to lose weight rapidly while protecting your muscle tissue.
So even though you are taking in very few calories, your body is getting the protein and nutrients it needs -- it doesn't react as it would if you were starving yourself, because you are NOT starving it.
Make sense?
B ...@sheppardsoftware.com (Brad Sheppard)
Agreed. Liquid diets would only make sense if you stayed on them the rest of your life - ugh! My opinion is that shortcuts to weight loss just don't work, long term. Everyone wants instant success with little work. The reality is it takes a lot of hard work.
aben ...@yahoo.com (Annie M. Benson-Lennaman)
Read it and weep.
TUNA APPLE SALAD Recipe By : (Not Me! Did a google search on) Serving Size : 3 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Salads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 Can (6.5 oz) tuna 3 c Torn lettuce 1 Apple 1 Stalk celery, chopped 4 1/4 oz Chopped olives (opt.) 1/4 c Cheese, grated (opt.) 1 Boiled egg, chopped 3 tb Thousand Island dressing Drain tuna. Tear lettuce into bite-sized pieces.
Core apple and cut into eight wedges. Cut each wedge crosswise into 4 or 5 chunks. Each apple piece will still have peel on one edge. Red apples look especially nice.
Combine tuna, lettuce, apple and chopped celery. Add optional ingredients as desired. Add Thousand Island dressing and toss until well blended. Serve with crackers or specialty bread.
-----
My notes: I love to cook, and I was doing it for a living at one time. I can "taste" recipes in my head. Usually. I envision this as being a slightly sweet version of traditional tuna salad... just think about switching the relish for the apple and you have the idea. If you wanted a lighter version of this salad, make sure I used water packed tuna, use low fat dressing, omit the optional cheese and olives (olives... bleach! Would omit them even if not on a diet!), and use only egg whites, or perhaps cook a 1/4 cup of eggbeaters into pancake form, let cool, then dice.
But.... truer still... I don't think I would be very tempted to try this at all.
Annie
aben ...@yahoo.com (Annie M. Benson-Lennaman)
Why? Why does one need a formal approach? I mean, if you eat fewer calories than you burn throughout the day, you will lose weight, right? I don't believe that the body cares that the fewer calories are coming from following some named diet, rather than following general nutrition guidelines one has researched on one's own.
Not trying to be confrontational, but I do take issue with idea that one needs to use a formal approach. IMO, one needs dedication to the process. One needs to understand that one's new habits are a part of one's life now, not a temperary aberation that one must go through to lose the desired weight. That's the main problem I have with the named diets... most people I know who have used them have not considered them to be a new, integral part of their lives.
The general concept of eating less and exercising more works fine.
As long as one has the decidation to stick with it.... the same decidication that is needed with any formal approach as well.
Annie 260/252/130
"\"Mu" MuNoCh...@japan.com
The body ultimately does not.
Here's a diet that works, has a cardiologist that you can speak to about it and is FREE.
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp Here's a better reason not to trust them. when researched for long term usage, 95 out of 100 quit and regain weight in less than six months.
Correct.
the more formal, the more it requires, the more the diet requires of you (journaling, counting, reading etc), the higher the likelihood you will punt it.
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