Patrol Camping
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langd ...@bigfoot.com (Eddie Langdown)
Just got back from a district camp and noticed that we were the only troop to be using a the 'patrol camping system'; with scouts camping, cooking and eating in their patrols. The rest had variations on central cooking.
Have been out of the loop for a few years, but wondered if this was a freak observation, or is the patrol camping system not so popular now?
Personally, I think there is no greater achievement in leadership and preparation for adulthood for teenagers than to be responsible for caring for a family of six 24 hours a day. For most kids the opportunity to be PL at camp comes once, it is a huge responsibility, but most of my scouts have loved it to bits and been sad they couldn't do it a second year.
I realise that the lowering of the age group has made it more difficult, that it takes a lot of training and that camps can rightly be 'troop feeding bases' for activities etc. But i still get the buzz when leaders return and share notes on the meals they had with the Hawks, of how well or how dreadful the food was, or of the conversation was around the table.
I can't really compete with the school adventure camps,( although i like the convenience of booking a few activity sessions during a camp) and don't want to, because what we offer is quite unique in youth work, and I would be sad to see scout leaders reduced to becoming caterers and booking agents.
OK, tell me I'm old fashioned!
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Bart b...@martinwhelan-naffoffspam.co.uk
In five years in a traditionalish troop we did the following: July 1993 (2 nights) - Walesby Forest - Patrols breakfast, central lunch and tea.
August 1993 (7 nights) - Kielder Water - Patrols everything except first night, and something which required an oven.
March 1994 (2 nights) - Walesby Forest - Regional Patrol Camp - all meals cooked in patrols.
August 1994 (7 nights) - Barnswood - all breakfasts in patrol, lunches mixture and evening meals same.
May 1995 (3 nights) - Sudbrooke Park, Lincoln - patrol cooking with a BBQ on one night.
August 1995 (7 night) Linnet Clough - weather was bad (had not rained for about 4 months - then rained most of the week), so were possible the patrols cooked breakfast, picnic lunch and tea was usually central.
August 1996 (7 nights) Lincolnshire Showground - all central cos it was a jamborree.
August 1997 (8 nights) Fox Coverts, Hincklry - Breakfasts patrol, lunches central and all evening meals except a backwoods one centrally.
The age spread got gradually younger cos a lot were lost in the 1982-1985 age range, so more central stuff was need cos they really did not have the skills to cook for themselves. Also we shifted from all wood fire at Kielder to virtually everything on gas by the end. There had been a change in the leadership pool towards the end. Since then the troop nearly collapsed so I am not really sure whats happended.
Martin
James Smith dr_ba...@removentlworld.com
On summer camp the Patrols cook Breakfast in Patrols - and if on site sort out lunch in Patrols, and most evening meals in Patrols - the exception is probably the Friday evening which is a centrally catered barbeque (all the Patrols cooking gear is being clearned at this point) Although things in the middle of the week can chop and change if the older Scouts are off site...
James Bentall m...@privacy.net
I think Patrol Camping has certainly got a lot harder now we have lost the 14/16 yr olds from the troop. There is naturally a lot less you can expect a 13yr old to be able to do than an older person. On camp this year, we will hopefully be patrol catering for most of it, but each patrol will have to have a leader overseeing them, as I know my 12/13yr PLs are not up to catering etc completely by themselves.
I agree, however I think it is a rare 13 yr old that is capable of doing this (there are a few out there, but not many!) YiS James
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James Bentall - SL 2nd Hatfield Email - jim...@bigfoot.com http://www.hatfieldscouts.org.uk/2nd Do you Baloo? http://www.baloo.org.uk
"Simon Jerram" simon.jer...@dont-spam-me.com
I've just come back from the weekend of a troops week long camp. Whatever their faults, they always patrol cater- for longer camps.
I don't think they'd patrol cater on a weekend long or district event- not enough time.
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nos ...@raynet-uk.net (Jim)
No, you are not!
My old Troop (which I left it last year to run Explorers) has always camped almost exclusively as patrols, as it gives the kids a real responsibility and is a great learning environment!
They have a well developed points system that provides balanced competition between the patrols and offers a focus for activities.
The patrols also cook for a leader, so they can concentrate on supervising them as needed (often they require very little) rather than being distracted doing our own meal.
Lunch is usually sandwiches or other quick food, so we just grab a couple of spare Scouts to put the food out. No, we don't make 100 sandwiches, they make their own!
Only exceptions to this are the occasional big camp/jamboree that they attend (about every 5 years) where the focus is more on the activities rather than the whole camping experience. In this case they cook centrally, with the leaders doing the meal organising and getting some kids to help each time. We found this approach was easier as the meals are over a lot quicker and with less h***le, rather than continual badgering about doing the washing up! Jamborees normally have very limited space so full patrol working is often not possible anyway.
Part of the problem we found was that, being very much patrol orientated with each having their own dining shelter and fire, 5 or 6 patrols (a normal camp size!) took up a lot of space and some sites don't understand this.
My p***ion for complete Patrol camping probably comes from my own experiences as a Scout, in a Troop that did everything centrally.
I hated it as it was mind-numbingly boring when you were the duty patrol and the rest of the Scouts were playing games, or doing activities you wanted to do but were never offered when you were not the duty patrol. Apart from the time in your tent, we were just a group of Scouts with no Patrol identity and no friendly competition between any of the other tents.
Jim
Tony Mochan t...@MYSURNAME.net
This weekend was our local camping competition, and our patrol of 2 12 year olds, 2 11 year olds, and 2 10 year olds, managed to end up 4th (out of 6), completely storming away from the bottom two teams and, for their age, not that far behind the 3 leading patrols. They also managed to win the camp cooking part of the competition. How? I don't know, but they seemed far better and more comfortable at it than I would ever have imagined.
They enjoyed it - long live patrol camping!
Tony
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Tony Mochan Scout Leader, 20th Dundee
"paul justice" pjsw08...@blueyonder.co.uk
Interesting Tony.
We are looking at our District Competition and were wondering how much of it to change to take account of the new age ranges.
What was your experience.
Paul
langd ...@bigfoot.com (Eddie Langdown)
Thankyou to the possative responses already recived, I appreciate many of your points about taking flexible appraoches. Of course,capable troops and PL's take time to grow, 2 or three years perhaps. I have addresed the age/ safety issue head-on by adapting our equipment. A good catering size kettle for hot water, sturdy specially made folding altar fires, use of saws far more than axes and this year I will be experimenting with some small metal saw horses to hold the wood. ( Still need to design them). On the menu side we did away with cooked breakfast as few kids have cooked breakfast at home and the cooking and washing-up took a chunk out of the morning. We have cereals, bread and spreads, and they can make hot drinks on their stove. If the weather was really grotty we have sausage sarnies or french toast.
Having mixed patrols made a tentage delimma as we want to keep them sleeping in patrols too and it was not good to have 2 scouts in a hike tent for a week, I want them all to have space to stand-up in the tent. So we have gone for 2, 4 person tents per patrol (Decathlon's Arpenaz T4 + Air XL ??85 now, but we got at a deal of ??65). Ok so it is big for 2 and we have to engineer a minimum of 2 girls or boys in a patrol, but we have managed so far.
As for the age thing, we have no Explorers or Young Leaders Unit nearby so it is a (desperatly sad) problem trying to say goodbye to our older scouts at present, but I would hope to keep them til 14 so they will have had 3 or four years of scout camping skills to build upon before leading a camping patrol. Last year we also brought back an old tradition of taking the PLs out for a smart evening meal on the last night, as a thankyou.
Tony Mochan t...@MYSURNAME.net
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:42:21 +0100, paul justice Well, the tent was 4 weeks old, and on it's third outing, the rest of the equipment had recently been bought/acquired ... some only the day before, some was borrowed - they had certainly not been used to it. (We spent over ??200 on new equipment for this camp, excluding the tent! - New Troop, next to nothing camping wise.) We'd never taken part in a camp like this before.
We did have a "Ready, Steady, Cook" competition a few weeks earlier, but that was our only training as such.
I think the emphasis of the competition was the main reason. Although it was a competition, the emphasis was on encouraging them to learn from the experienced leaders that were there, and no-one was left to fend for themselves. Some meals were also allowed to be cooked on gas, although there was no real reason why they wouldn't have survived on wood all day, except perhaps for the lack of wood at the site!
The wide range of different camping styles was apparent, and the differences in equipment quite marked in some places. We had a joint competition with our neighbouring Area (Hi Bill!), so altogether, there were 13 teams.
Our competition has always been more about encouraging than competition (from the leaders point of view), although it is always taken very seriously by the Scouts.
Changes we made from previous years were a maximum combined age of 73.5 (including full months). No restriction was placed on the number of PLs/APLs etc... as most enter Scouts from more than one patrol. (We entered 2 PLs and no APLs). No insistance on Patrol Tents (although we'd changed this a few years ago anyway.) Apart from that, not a lot of changes wrt the new age ranges. The Scottish competition has, I believe, added a rule that only one member may be aged 14 and must still be a member of the Scout section - otherwise it's quite similar.
See also ...
http://www.scouts-scotland.org.uk/library/bringbak.asp?id=102 HTH Tony
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Tony Mochan Scout Leader, 20th Dundee
Tony Mochan t...@MYSURNAME.net
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:10:08 +0000 (UTC), Eddie Langdown Ideal solution ...
We went for a Vango Colorado 1200DLX ... 12 person tent (15 Cubs) ... 3 x 4 ... or 2 x 4 plus a store tent!
So far only one, but I would imagine buying another one shortly ... we also have a couple of the Outdoors tents that zip together to form one tent. We have 2 x 4 person tents, that can zip into an 8 person tent. We also have in storage 8 Stormhaven Patrol Tents, but they ain't been used in a long while, and I'm not so sure on their current condition. We only have pegs for 3 and groundsheets for 4 ... but this is more than enough for us, and allows a fairly flexible programme of camping. We can also borrow a few Vango Force Ten's from the Area store, or other groups, if required.
This is a great idea, and one which I thoroughly enjoyed in my time as a PL/SPL. I revived it a couple of years ago, and they seemed to appreciate it, but last year wasn't a real "Patrol" based camp, more centrally catered - due to the lack of leaders to supervise. The Scouts still cooked, but it was much easier for the two of us to supervise in only one location.
Tony
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Tony Mochan Scout Leader, 20th Dundee
Geoff Briggs geoff.bri...@nottingham.ac.uk
(Big Snip) (Small Snip) Eddie, just a very small note; you can, of course, keep your Scouts until they are 15 if you (and they) want to. POR 4.7 (g) states The age range of the Section is from 14 years to 18 years old. There is flexibility at either end of the age range. The age for moving from the Scout Section is between 13?? and 15 years and moving to the Scout Network between 17?? and 18?? years.
If you don't have an ESU near by, then this seems the only way to keep the boys (and girls) in the movement. Also, if you do keep them until 15, you might also have the nucleus required to form a partnered ESU at your own Group, if some of your 14 year olds join with your 15 year olds, and you can find the required leaders.
Geoff Briggs DESC SE Notts
Francis William Oldroyd oldiesh...@argonet.co.uk
Incidentally the Explorers wish to use patrol camping on there summer camp as they prefer it. Do other Explorere Units have patrols ?. (It was at their request.) Bill
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Bill Oldroyd, SL, 1st Tadcaster, Wetherby District.
Scout website - http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/oldieshome/scouts/
Tom Oldershaw n...@bluegreen.org.uk
Of course, a Scout can stay in the Troop until the age of 15, if all parties agree.
As for patrol camping, I wouldn't do it any other way, but I think it will suffer from the lower maximum age of Scouts. A 13 year old cannot be expected to have the same skills and ability of a 15 (or even 14) year old. Though, of course, it varies with each person - I've seen hopeless 16yo PLs and very good 13yo PLs.
My two previous Troops have always camped in Patrols, cooking on wood.
We noticed last year that cooking was definitely slower without the older lads than in previous years, and they needed more ***istance.
But providing the leaders can accommodate that in the way they work, there's no reason to deprive the Scouts of the opportunity to look after themselves for a week.
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Tom Oldershaw DESC, Bedford mailto: t...@bluegreen.org.uk http://www.bedfordexplorerscouts.org.uk/
"Kevin Kirby" n...@kirbys.me.uk
I didn't realise there was another way to run a Scout Camp. We run almost all camps under canvas on this basis. As some of my Scouts of put it, "where else could I do all the things I'm never allowed to do at home?!" In my view Patrol camping is the essence of Scouting. Adventure camps have their place, but at this age learning to live and work together as a group teaches valuable social and leadership skills which are hard to learn elsewhere. For the Scout age range this style of camping offers enough adventure to keep them satisfied (we still do other activities, but there is no pressure from the kids to for loads of adventure activities).
In short, kids love patrol-camping and they can't do it anywhere else.
I agree with other comments elsewhere in this thread about it being more difficult to patrol camp with younger scouts. But it is only more difficult, not impossible! I've been camping with young patrols for the last five years; when my growing troop got to the stage of having 14 and 15-year old PLs, they all moved on to, Explorer Scouting (they are still there, having a great time). Young patrols need more support, but with suitable training can patrol camp successfully We found that younger PLs have the technical skills but lack the organisational skills. Our solution is to be directional in teaching them how to camp. Rather than gently suggesting that a grease trap would be a good idea, as I would do with a 15-year old, we tell the younger PL's exactly what we expect from the patrol.
This does not stifle the more advanced PL, but does provide support to the average 13-year old PL who might otherwise feel overwhelmed. By doing this we have been able to run traditional patrol-based camps without m***ive extra leadership support.
So Eddie, you are not old-fashioned. In years to come your Scouts will have many unique and happy memories to thank you for, and you will have had a lot more fun than any caterer or booking agent! Keep up the good work.
Kevin Kirby
John Kennaugh J...@kennaugh2435hex.freeserve.co.uk
Eddie Langdown writes [.....] Your old fashioned! There I've told you. Good for you. Award that man a silver medal. If cooking was done on fires make it a big gold one.
OK call me old fashioned. I admit it. But I know what I liked doing when I was a Scout. (and still do given half a chance) My ideal is a fire at ground level to cook on and then eating the food sitting around it on a whatever is to hand. Preferably in a wood on the banks of a stream. No tables, no chairs, no gas bottles so able to feel oneself a part of the environment rather than being an intrusion upon it.
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John Kennaugh to email convert the number from hex to decimal
"Stephen Rainsbury" step...@rainsbury.net
I certainly try to do it where possible, but I think that you have to be careful that you are not settling the patrol up for a fall.
If I think that the Patrol is up to it then we let them get on with it, but more than once of the past few years an adult has had to provide additional on the job training to avoid someone going hungry.
This next camp we are going to put all the 12-14 year olds in 4 man patrols to look after themsleves, but run the 10+11 year olds as a single patrol with a young leader acting as PL. That way he gets to do some real leading and they get the benefit of a good teacher. The 12-14 year old should be able to support each other and not get put off by the occasional mistake.
Well thats the theory.
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SBR
langd ...@bigfoot.com (Eddie Langdown)
I like the thinking outside the box, and 10 year olds can get a bit lost and trampled-on, I can see your point. I take it your youngsters will go back into patrols for some activities? I do worry about the 'teaching' , our scouts camp in patrols so litte each year so little each year it is almost like starting again with everyone each time, especially when it comes to building camp dressers, cooking,storing food properly, axe & saw etc. With yiour idea they all get taught how to do it properly. However, I think with enough supervison, patrols not too far from the 'base- camp, that I would leave them in the patrols, and take them out for some instruction sessions.
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