False report
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cpscsw ...@aol.com (CPSCswrkr)
Thought you might like to know.
A woman called in an abuse report today alleging that a dad beat his daughter until she bled. Our worker found that it was completely bogus when she went out to see the kid. She did a follow up with the police because of the serious nature of the allegations and learned that the woman also made a similar report to the police.
The local police arrested her for making a false report to the police.
Thought you all might like to know that.
"Bob" sue...@hotmail.com
Yes. False reporters should be held accountable.
Did the investigator do a risk ***esment while s/he was at dads house?
This is surprisingly like an example I often use. Report says dad beat daughter bloody in garage. Investigator discovers dad don't have a daughter or a garage. But he does have a young son, a dirty house, empty beer cans, and a bad attitude.
Will he lose his son?
Bob www.suecps.com
free_kaler free_ka...@my-deja.com
It would make sense that cps, or who-ever was answering the (hotline) call, should say; "Call 911, or your local law enforcement, immediatly" And then call the police, themselves. If your worker found out from the police about the first incident, then, were they called before cps, incident one? And why was it not in the cps records? ("Too many cooks, spoil the soup?") (Or lack of funding?) Even though the call was made to cps ? Hmmm.
Thanks Caseworker, btw, there is no doubt in my mind that if one case of false allegations has happened, then there must be others.
Free.
"..and that you may never experience the humility that the power of the American Government has reduced me to, is the wish of him, who, in his native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself." Black Hawk, 1833
adopta ...@aol.com (AdoptaDad)
Thanks Caseworker, btw, there is no doubt in my mind that if one case of false allegations has happened, then there must be others.
Congratulations... you have an excellent grasp of the obvious. Was there a point in there somewhere?
Perhaps you're suggesting that it's the fault of CPS when false allegations occur? Or maybe you would prefer that CPS not respond to a call placed by a child's mother claiming the father is beating her child? Or maybe there was some other point you were trying to make? I must have missed it.
Dad
"Bob" sue...@hotmail.com
Police should respond. Personally, I would prefer that CPS not incarcerate and traumatize hundreds of thousands of children who were not abused or neglected.
Did you miss Woodstock too? I did. Bummer.
Ric Werme we...@mediaone.net
Since Neal hasn't jumped in, I'll do it for him. If there were no CPS, then a single investigation by the police would have yielded similar results.
I wonder why CPS is as agressive at contesting false reports. I guess I don't think it's illegal in NH. However, we have cases here where the police don't bother to prosecute false police reports, even when pressured by the victim.
-Ric
--
Ric Werme | we...@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete
free_kaler free_ka...@my-deja.com
Not at all, actually I was thanking caseworker for intelligent input. (You might have missed that) As far as "obvious", I hope you work on that ( : "nothing is obvious, maybe evident, it could be an illusion." Einstien or as woody says; "ah-ha, ha ha" (to Buzz Lightyear) Take it easy Adoptadad.
"..and that you may never experience the humility that the power of the American Government has reduced me to, is the wish of him, who, in his native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself." Black Hawk, 1833
destorycps nos...@newsranger.com
Making a false felony report is a crime, and in (at least) some states making a false report of child abuse or neglect, a hotline call, is a misdemeanor.
1. Does such a law exist in PA?
2. If so, how many false reporters has Cps in PA sought to prosecute?
Marilynn nos...@newsranger.com
Good she's been arrested.
But will they prosecute?
Marilynn In article <20010427232333.07310.00001...@ng-ce1.aol.com>, CPSCswrkr says...
"Greg Hanson" gree...@hotmail.com
"CPSCswrkr" What is curious is that you reported one such incident to us as news.
One would reasonably expect you to be dealing with those constantly!
The fact that one is news belies a rather sinister problem.
The US DHHS "A Guide for Caseworkers" seems rather conflicted about false reports. It seems to want caseworkers to be leery of MOTIVATED witnesses, axes to grind, etc. but then also implies that the caseworker should throw away any suspicions.
(Intake, page 9, under Anonymous Referrals) "Although some anonymous referrals may have less validity, they should be handled in the same manner as other reports." It seems to admonish caseworkers who are rightly suspicious of motivated reports to overcome their suspicion.
"In addition, reports from an estranged spouse regarding the other parent's care of the children often create suspicion among CPS caseworkers.
Such reports should be handled in the same manner as other reports." CPSCswrkr, Have you ever even HEARD of the DHHS handbook?
The one who was playing Torquemada with me here apparently never had.
Back in around 1986 there was a CPS witchhunt that busted out in Savage, Minnesota. News media was all abuzz for many months.
I did some maintenance work for a CPS caseworker.
I asked her if they really did it. She said "They all did it, we just can't prove it.". The prosecutor sent out so many arrest warrants that the County Sherriff eventually stopped honoring them.
It turns out that the prosecutor had been abused as a child and she was having a sort of cathartic revenge. She got in some trouble early on for giving the kids teddy bears, etc. if they told her what she wanted to hear. This was one of the things that brought her down, because there was some sort of rule preventing her from giving out "door prizes" for child testimony. (MN law?) This kook actually thought that (like McMartin pre-school hoax) she had come upon a large "ring" of child abusers.
She was eventually yanked, and I hope sued for many bucks.
But that short CPS worker comment always struck me as sick.
Is there an ethical prohibition of giving kids gifts in connection with testimony against their parents in your state?
Jon Beaver jbea...@imagecomp.com
These cases should be hard to prosecute. I don't think we want the government acting precipitously to any allegation, child abuse/neglect or false reports of it. If anything, we should have a higher tolerance for uncertainty about allegations of false reports. We who are concerned about CPS abuse of power should not take the position that that power should be abused against someone else.
The problem here is that government can't raise children. No matter how much they try, no matter how much money they spend, they can only harm and threaten to harm. So every social problem devolves to a search for someone to blame and punish. As somebody once said, if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
- Jon Beaver
"Greg Hanson" gree...@hotmail.com
In my present circumstances, I find it hard to feel comp***ion for a tainted, motivated, scroogelike and factually wrong witness who has been instrumental in helping grandparents use CPS as a weapon.
His accusation was quickly proven false, in multiple ways, but CPS still* presented it to the judge as accurate.
I am angry that CPS allowed themselves to be used in this way.
CPS ignored all ***ertions of witness contamination.
As an ongoing victim of CPS and their "helping relationship" (sic) we really have no legal recourse at this moment.
The only corrective measure left to us is Civil Suit, after we get "helped" into submission.
Sure, I'd gladly trade having the child home now, for potential civil action later, but unfortunately, CPS knows this and uses it.
We made the mistake of working with them "in good faith" for two weeks before we figured out on our own that they were not operating "in good faith". That's when we discovered the array of anti-CPS sites on the web, and recognized quite a few of the rotten tactics that CPS people use all over the US.
Herein lies the real breach of trust. CPS and attorneys often dismiss anti-CPS sites as "crackpot" basically. But when an innocent family operating in good faith realizes that the anti-CPS sites really do "have CPS's number", the naivety ends.
When a naive innocent sees anti-CPS descriptions of the dirty tricks that CPS uses, and recognizes* the tactics, the lamb becomes the lion.
Sure, Jon, I'd rather see CPS use their brain about false accusations, but until they do, aren't we forced to sue?
You seem to presume a reasonable world. I cannot.
I'd have to see it before I can operate on the philosophical plane you described. First I have to drag myself out of the mud selectively flung upon me.
I have to live in fear of another false accusation starting a similar quagmire all over again, forever.
Yes, I want liars marked as liars.
I am now a "founded" child abuser for making a 7 year old take a fast cold shower.
(Not initial accusation, result of witchhunt) Never have I seen anybody offer substantial answers about how to avoid recurring false accusations.
Do you have any answers?
PS- no disrespect intended, Jon.
destroycps nos...@newsranger.com
Greg said ...
.. accusation was ... proven false, ... but CPS still* presented it to the judge as accurate.
I am angry that CPS allowed themselves to be used [being led by an unreliable reporter] in this way.
Destroycps says ...
It's not correct that Cps was "used." The people at your Cps full-well know what they are doing. They're not concerned if the witness is factual or not.
They make a charade of fake reasonableness. That's all.
..
Greg said ...
The only corrective measure left to us is Civil Suit, after we get "helped" into submission.
Destroycps says ...
That perhaps is your only *legal* corrective measure. It doesn't sound very satisfying to me.
..
Greg said ...
.. we figured out on our own that they were not operating "in good faith".
? ?
Destroycps says ...
You're the first person to say that. <-- Joke ..
Greg said ...
You seem to presume a reasonable world.?
Destroycps says ...
It is reasonable if you understand that Cps simply wants to keep your kid. If you misunderstand Cps's purpose (believing them to want to promote the welfare of children), well, then they're actions seem unreasonable. The purpose of Cps is to keep your kid forever and to not allow you to have any part of his life.
..
Greg said ...
Never have I seen anybody offer substantial answers about how to avoid recurring false accusations.
Do you have any answers?
Destroycps says ...
Become a caseworker? A judge? Move to Mongolia?
Jon Beaver jbea...@imagecomp.com
They can attempt to "present" anything they want. Did they "prove" it? Everybody has a right to present their side of the story. Did you present yours? That's life. That's not cynical or defeatist. You have to accept that people will abuse power and be prepared for it. As a lawyer, I make a living being prepared for it. That's why I don't spend a lot of time complaining about people who abuse their power. It's like complaining about ten lion eating the lamb. He's just acting in accordance with his nature.
It's a shame that we have to be constantly vigilant to protect our children's freedom. Raising children isn't a job for the faint of heart or the naive. If you aren't prepared to protect your children from government abuse, just like you protect them from speeding traffic, perhaps you shouldn't have them. Yeah, I know, they told you that a lawyer wouldn't do you any good and that they would just take you money and do nothing, so don't make trouble because they are just trying to help, so sign here.
"Sue?" How wimpy! Can't you think of anything more effective than that? I sure can.
On the contrary. For me to presume a reasonable world would be professional malpractice.
Look, you seem to acknowledge that you forced a 7-year old under a cold shower. That's not kind. Whether it rises to the level of abuse so as to confer authority on the government to intervene is an interesting legal and constitutional question. I have lots of arguments that it doesn't, and couldn't. But this isn't a "false accusation" except, perhaps, as to the details and motivations for the act.
It has been the common law for a millennium that even TOUCHING another person in an offensive manner is a tort and a crime. CPS didn't just make this up. There is generally a defense to battery that the parent was administering "reasonable corporal punishment." Furthermore, the right to have and raise children free from government interference is a fundamental constitutional right subject to an overriding governmental interest in protection of children from abuse and neglect. You have a lot to talk about, but "false accusation" is the wrong argument.
- Jon Beaver
"Bob" suecpsthetr...@hotmail.com
Perhaps there are more effective ways to deal with an ongoing case, however, I feel that for foster kids exiting the system with serious, often permanent injuries, it is damages or nothing. Not to mention the satisfaction of turning on the lights and exposing the cock-a-roaches you have been forced to live with in the darkness others call childhood.
Thank you for your input to ascps. I find your focused view on CPS abuses to be very helpful.
Bob "Due to power shortages and fiscal restraints, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off." <I snipped the rest>
"Greg Hanson" gree...@hotmail.com
Jon, I respectfully disagree. Our "initial accusation" was instantly proven false.
The "cold shower" thing was the result of 6 weeks of witchhunt.
The premise of the whole investigation was a false accusation.
The CPS was "clutching at straws" to find something,and eventually did.
Oh yeah, the child underwent CPC exam for no better reason than the daytime wetting. Millions of kids have wetting problems without sexual abuse being the reason. No sex abuse found,of course.
Two examples of false accusations. One involving a DHS lie.
Yes, Jon,they used the "spaghetti" method. Throw it all and see what sticks. Any parent could be in trouble this way.
That seems germain to "False Accusations".
As far as kindness, we reasoned with the intelligent 7 year old that it would be far meaner to let her keep wetting herself and hearing comments like "She pees her pants." as we did from one of her cl***mates.
Lack of discipline can effectively become a consequence far more severe than the discipline itself could ever be.
adopta ...@aol.com (AdoptaDad)
<snip excellent post by John> Perhaps there are more effective ways to deal with an ongoing case, however, I feel that for foster kids exiting the system with serious, often permanent injuries, it is damages or nothing.
What about children who ENTER the foster system with serious, often permanent, physical or psychological injuries? Should the "real parents" be sued for damages?
Dad
"Bob" suecpsthetr...@hotmail.com
You pose an interesting question. I believe the children you speak of could sue their parents. I think this should be decided on a case by case basis.
However, such cases are rare. Parents who intentionally cause serious physical and emotional injuries to their children are usually pretty sick cookies, and for the most part, judgement proof [ie broke].
Personally, I take my lead from an old bank robber named Willie Sutton. When asked why he robbed banks, he simply smiled and said "cause that's where the money is". Hence aka suecps.
Bob
adopta ...@aol.com (AdoptaDad)
Lemme see if I understand this. Parents who intentionally cause physical and emotional injuries to their children are more likely to be poor, therefore not worth suing, regardless of their culpability. Got it.
Perhaps, in a twisted sort of way, you stand to financially benefit from all the money the government invests in the CPS system - just like those fake parents you so despise who take in children only for financial gain.
Willie Sutton was a bank robber. He took other people's money. I thought your campaign was about correcting a grave social injustice. Guess not.
Dad
"Doug" do...@sprintmail.com
Hi, Adopt-a-dad!
No, you didn't get it. That's not what Bob said.
What is a fake parent? If you refer to foster caregivers, they are neither real or synthetic parents.
I would say it is. The backbone to CPS malpractice is funding based upon the incarceration of innocent children. Threatening that money supply is one path toward correcting a grave social injustice.
Doug
"Bob" suecpsthetr...@hotmail.com
You must have me confused with Martin Luther King.
Bob
adopta ...@aol.com (AdoptaDad)
ROFLMAO. I won't make that mistake again.
Dad
adopta ...@aol.com (AdoptaDad)
Sure he did. Or words very closely to that effect.
Fake parents are "not real", Doug. Perhaps you could give us the popular definition of "real parent" in the context of this newsgroup. Then it might become a bit clearer to you.
Do you still call it "the incarceration of innocent children" when kids are removed from abusive homes for good cause? Just wondering.
Dad Threatening that money supply is
rlisaac ...@aol.com (Rlisaacsjd)
A new website with FREE tactics and documents actually used by fathers to WIN false accusation cases is now on at http://www.fathersrights.org
"Doug" do...@sprintmail.com
Hi, Adopt-a-dad!
I know of no definition of "real parent." Since "parent" is a noun with specific and mutually-exclusive meaning, a qualifier added before the word is either redundant or conflicting. There is no such thing as a "fake" parent. Likewise, it is redundant to say "real" parent.
All children have but two parents. If you are not the mother or the father, you are not the child's real, artificial, fake or any other type of parent.
Yes. While there are certainly incidents where a child must be removed from her home because she has been severely abused and is in danger of life-threatening injury in the future, the child remains innocent. The child is still being taken into custody against her will and is being held involuntarily under color of law -- incarceration.
Doug
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