ACLU Challenges New VA Law Banning Nudist Teen Camps
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troilus2002 ...@hotmail.com (Troilus)
Hi everyone, I thought the folks in this group would probably find this article interesting: http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/30/nude.teen.lawsuit.ap/index.html In a nutshell, Virginia has p***ed a law recently effectively banning teen camps that are 'nudist'. The ACLU is challenging this law, stating that Virginia overreached and is encroaching on the rights of families in child-rearing decisions.
"REC.NUDE FAQ MAINTAINER" recnude...@sunclad.com
There is actually far more to the story.
After a press article on the AANR nude camps for nudist children hald at some clubs, a FL congressman jumped on it as an issue to advance his bid for his state's senate race. While he backed off and the bill was never introduced after naturist interests met with him and gave him a better perspective, two other state legislatures were similarly moved due to clubs hosting camps in their states.
In Texas, NAC chair Bob Morton testified and eventually the bill died in committee. In VA however, things did not go well and the legislature banned the camps overwhelmingly.
These are summer camp programs for nudist kids from nudist families. The so-called "ban" actually refuses or revokes the operating license of a facility that hosts nude camps for teens/kids when parents, grandparents, or custodial guardian are not also present on the grounds. Since some kids come from other regional clubs or sometimes attend without parents in tow, this would have a serious impact on the club's camp program.
It also raises serious questions on how far government can intrude into family choices to espouse a specific belief or lifestyle.
As often is the case the cry from the legislature was child protection from pedophiles and child pornographers.
Current press on the ACLU challenge also makes it sould as if the intent was to establish summer camps that any teen of any age might be able to attend without parental oversight of some kind, ignoring or missing the fact that no one under age 18 can gain access otherwise without some kind of parental consent to such programs.
Parental rights groups will need to pay attention to this one as it sets a precedent that might be used to stop them from choosing to send kids to religious camps, or other camping programs that government might deem inappropriate.
DMk
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JW jol...@gohighspeed.com
On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 20:03:27 GMT, REC.NUDE FAQ MAINTAINER I want to know why it never occurred to them that these parents are sending their children to the nudist camps to PROTECT them from pedophiles and child pornographers! I certainly wouldn't be sending MY child off to a Boy Scout camp or a church camp. Or any camp but a nudist camp for that matter as at least there is some screening of the type of people running the camps.
The whole thing is about as unfair as those camps Germany set up for the Jews..! This type of discrimination is targeting a specific group of people and we ought as any kind of thinking people NEVER allow this kind of thing to ever happen in our world again. Even a non-nudist ought to be able to see that much. Worse still it is done in spite of ALL the research which has been done! If any facts at all were ever seen, they were plainly ignored, it is as bad as that perverted idiot who covered the statues!
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73 de N7PSV aka Rev. JW <n>< http://members.hscis.net/~jolson/health.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_original_inner_circle
jenny68 ...@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
Dennis, you sound just like Bob Morton (the nac guy) when he was waxing eloquent about the prospects of his Hippy Hollow suit.
Morton (and his various financial backers) lost, and lost badly, all the way to the United States Supreme Court -- which refused to hear his appeal of an unbroken string of losses in lower courts.
In what way is this case different?
Why should we expect this case to come to a different result?
Inquiring minds want to know.
:-) Jenny (who hopes DMK, who under a different name is the poster of nac messages, can provide one or more solid *reasons* to hope) Before emailing, remove Clothes
okeefe1 ...@aol.comnojunk (Kathleen)
jolson>I want to know why it never occurred to them that these parents are It is the people working in the program and the access to the children that other people at the resort have that are the problem.
I would not send my child to any camp--nudist or textile without being present myself. There just is no need.
Too much of a risk.
Kathleen To Forgive is the Highest most Beautiful form of Love. Forgive all who have offended you. Not for them. But for Yourself.
Indian magazine
"D. Kirkpatrick" sunc...@sunclad.com
Different states. Different set of circumstances.
Private vs. public lands.
jenny68 ...@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
Dennis, thank you for providing such a detailed analysis.
Different states: In what way do you think that will affect the resolution at the state level?
Different set of circumstances: In what way are the circumstances meaningfully different?
Private vs. public lands: How does that affect the legal analysis?
:-) Jenny Before emailing, remove Clothes
ba ...@lawyer.com (Dean)
Patrick Henry, a Virginia, said, "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Mr. Henry has rolled over in his grave a little bit more.
Dean
da ...@sonic.net (Dan Abel)
Life itself is a risk. There is no way to eliminate risk. Too much emphasis on reducing risk leads to a lousy life. We need to take reasonable steps to reduce risk and then accept the consequences.
You certainly have the right to raise your kids as you wish, and I respect that. However, it isn't my way. The camp experience is an integral part of growing up for most kids. My wife and I both attended camps, and our three children have attended camps and my daughter has worked at camps.
Camps are one way of starting the separation process between parents and their children. You can't just boot them out the door at 18. You need to make them as safe as reasonably possible, and prohibiting or allowing nudity is not what is going to make the difference. We are dealing with that with our regional church board, which is prohibiting nudity around children "for the good of the children", which includes "children" who are 17 years old.
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Dan Abel Sonoma State University AIS da...@sonic.net
jenny68 ...@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
Bravo!
:-) Jenny Before emailing, remove Clothes
"Robert A. Neinast" nein...@worldnet.att.net
Well, I guess the alternative is just not to do anything, and to leave the law in place as is. Is that somehow better?
Case law is pretty strong about parental rights. On the other hand, when judges are uncomfortable (and judges are almost *always* uncomfortable with nudity), they find reasons to ignore case law, which is much of what happened in Morton's case.
After all, blacks also kept losing in their struggles for civil rights. But eventually, they managed to crack that door open.
Bob
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" . . . and shun the Frumious Bandersnatch." Robert A. Neinast Pickerington, OH
jenny68 ...@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
We should pick cases that we think are winnable, then go all out. We should not waste resources and credibility tilting at windmills.
And that's the basis of my questions. Virginia is a Texas kind of place. Why should this case do better in Virginia than Morton did in Texas? And why would this case do better in federal courts than the Morton case did?
IIRC, blacks crafted a careful strategy of cases over ~20 years leading to Brown V Board of Education. Are we doing that? Or are we helter-skelter tilting at windmills?
:-) Jenny Before emailing, remove Clothes
"REC.NUDE FAQ MAINTAINER" recnude...@sunclad.com
One of the inherent risks of newsgroups is that anyone can read them, including the opposition.
What I may know of both cases (and whether or not the Hippie Hollow case is truly dead or not) would be improper for me to post in such a public vulnerable venue.
I'd also not speculate further on the course that the principals in the VA case and the ACLU will take either.
And I'm certain this response will also not be acceptable but that is the only one I am prepared to offer at this time.
I'll just have to don the asbestos suit and deal with the heat. Sometimes you have to do that for the better good.
DMK
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swim_n_pad ...@yahoo.com (John P)
He's dead.
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