Children choosing religion preference question
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kurlig ...@aol.com (Kurligyrl)
Got to thinking after watching "Different Strokes" on Nick tonite. I was watching it with my children, they made me "think" about the topic of the show, don't really know what to "think" so I thought I would address it here. Dear little Arnold went to church for the first time in quite a while. He went to his new step mom's church and was bored to death. Mr and Mrs Drummand (sp?) told Arnold that maybe he was bored because he wasn't interested in their religion. They had Arnold explore different religions, then decide himself which he preferred. I never really thought about children choosing their own religion until tonite.
I guess I always just thought of religion as a family oriented thing that is handed down with each generation. If your parents are baptist, then you get raised as a baptist. Now that I watched this show, that doesn't make as much sense any more. So, guess what I am asking is do you feel that children should choose their religion, if so, at what age do you suggest they explore their options, and how would you recommend having them do this? And what kind of influence from you as the parent, would be acceptable while encouraging them to choose? Would you encourage them to explore all religions, including ones such as Wicca and atheism (not that I am for or against these two religions, just wanted to clarify what I meant by "all")? Just curious...
Kim
Steve rste...@armory.com
We had no religion and so whenever we wanted to go somewhere sunday morning we went to the Unitarian church since it has no creed, and when our kids asked us what other religions believed we told them, or we went to the library and looked it up together, and they were totally amazed that anybody could be so stupid as to believe any of that crap.
And THAT'S what happens and what is SUPPOSED to happen when you let kids choose their own religion. The vast majority of religions wouldn't have lasted five minutes without parents beating their kids into believing them, because they're complete stupid and unbelievable to anyone who examines them fairly without having been harmed into feeling immense guilt and terrified fear!!
Steve
kurlig ...@aol.com (Kurligyrl)
I wouldn't have a problem with it if they decided to believe what you stated here, Steve. In fact, that is exactly the reason for my post. Like I said, I never thought about it until tonite, and after thinking about it, I thought that it was kind of stupid for a parent to force a religion on a child, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. So, Steve, since I want to give my children the option of choosing a religion, or not choosing to follow one, how do you suggest doing that? What age? And do you think I should not only talk to them about different religious preferences and help them research it, but should I also make some sort of arrangments to have them "sample" these religions in real life, if they express interest in doing so, like take them to a lutheran church, or a wiccan place of worship, or maybe a group meeting for those who are atheist? Would we even be welcomed? How would you do that where some religions are concerned, such as Wicca, I don't know of any places like that around here.
This is coming from a mom who is not a religious person. I believe in God and all but don't go to church, neither did my family growing up, other than an occ***ional easter service with grandma, but we always considered ourselves to be methodist for some reason. I just don't want to prevent my children from becoming religious or non religous based on my own preferences. I want them to have the choice to believe what they want to believe.
Kim
"B and B" baboonnliz...@prodigy.net
Well, I was raised in a quaker household. My mother was very thorough in insisting that I do some research and explore other religions. Her reasoning was that there could only be 2 outcomes: 1.) I would find a religion that I could function in better than the one I was raised with 2.) I would broaden my horizons a bit, and be an informed quaker. Of course, that wasn't the case.
I attended Catholic m***es, Temple, a Presbyterian church, a Lutheran Church, a Baptist church, a KH meeting, one sunday with the Mormons, and the obligatory Unitarian church. Then, of course, there was that one church I went into and left after several members of the congregation dropped to the floor, began seizing, and shrieking gibberish. I came out realizing that I really didn't feel comfortable in any of those churches (though some were pretty ok). Now, I only attend meeting once a month or so.
Would I encourage my son to do the same? Of course. In fact, if he likes, I'll take him exploring.
This is what I would recommend: 1.) By all means, explore as many as you like.
2.) Before attending a service, do your homework. Find out about the religion, and then call the church/temple. There is usually someone there who is willing to allow you to visit, and can suggest attire (some churches are casual, and some are not).
3.) Unless your child is in their late teens or older, GO WITH THEM.
4.) Discuss what you read, saw, and heard. Try to do so without p***ing your own opinion.
5.) Do not be surprised if your child takes a few years to discover what it is he or she wants to do.
"Mrs. Pepper" la...@busweiser.com
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Hi Kurligyrl....Here is my situation. Both dh and I are catholic. He *was* a practicing one. Even was an alter boy. Me not. Just was baptised that way.
First dd was baptised catholic. Just because. I honestly do not believe all the catholic and the churches beliefs. Therefore, I do not practice it.
I believe there is a god though.
Dd #2 came along. And since we did not attend church in the last year, the priest will not baptise her until we go "regularly". I refused. I was appauled that a priest would so-called "punish" the child for the parents actions. Some suggested I join a new parish. But I would feel like a hypacrit saying, "Yes, I will raise and bring up my dd in the catholic beliefs" when I know I wont.
So I decided the heck with it. God will take anyone that is a good person to others, the land, the animals, etc.....So I refuse to teach either of my dd's that "this is the way it is". I will let them learn and decide for themselves what they want to believe. If I could reverse my first dd's baptismal, I would. But I cant. I will just let them explore all religions.
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Yes, I do.
if so, at what age do you suggest they explore their options, and how
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My eldest dd is 4.5 and we started it about 2 years ago. As of now, we explain that "this religion believes this", and "that religion believes that." On an issue that is. When she gets older and more interested she will want to learn more. And you can do this by visiting other churches, libraries as Steve stated, the internet.........you get the pic.
And what kind of influence from you
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I would let them choose what they want to explore. Maybe there is a list out there of all religions and one could say, "Here they all are." And go from there. ;) Mrs. P
splan ...@aol.com (Splanche)
I've read most of the responses so far, and although I understand where they're all coming from, there 's an important thing to note: I's easy to think about allowing choice for your children when you DON'T have any real tie to the religion that you yourself are praticing. For those people who firmly belive that their religious choice is the "right" one, and contains a certain truth that the other religions globally do not, it would be impossible for them to allow their children to "choose for themselves." No flames please. I'm not even specifically talking about my own situation.
- Blanche
indyg ...@aol.com (Indyguy1)
I think it's a very personal choice, and won't attempt to persuade anyone to do anything other than they wish to do, but here is how we approached this topic.
We had both of children babtized in a Lutheran Church. I am Lutheran DH is Catholic.
The Catholic church refused to marry unless we paid $750 to have my less than a year abbusive marriage to my first husband annuled by their church. We both thought this to be nothing more than another way for this particular religion to suck more money out of its paritioners, so we decided to get married in a Lutheran chruch.
We then had our children babtized Lutheran. In our eyes that made them a part of the Lutheran religion. We took them to Sunday school. Had them make their first communion, and go through confirmation cl***es and they were both confirmed, and became members of the Lutheran church, the summer befroe they started high school.
We both felt it important they grew up with religious ties, but felt at the same time as children they really couldn't make an informed decision on what religion if any they chose to follow. I mean as little ones they might pick the religion that has the coolest looking church, or the one most of their freinds go to. So we made the decision for them, just like parents do with young children with a great deal of things.
We have encouraged them to attend different churchs with friends, all along, and have told them *if* they find another religion they feel more akin to to share that with us and we'd be happy to go check it out with them if they were seriously considering changing religions. But we wouldn't consider any change until they were old enough, and had actual religious reasons for their desire to change. IOW just because their best friend is a Methodist or the Babtist church has a cooler summer bible camp won't be reason enough to change religions, in our eyes.
We have made it clear to our kids they can change religions any time they want to now that they are old enough, as teens, to make an informed decision. We had them babtized, make their first communion, and confirmed in the religion *we* chose for them , but it is not mandatory that they stay in that religion if they don't choose to.
So far neither has showed any interest in changing religions, even though they have both been to a number of different faith churches.
To *us* we don't feel children have the understanding or maturity to make an informed decision on what religion they will pratice. To *us* children need religion as they growup. To *us* they are free to change their religion once they reach an age they are able to make such a choice.
Indy
"pfoley" pfo...@ici.net
Why would you think that young children would be mature enough to choose their own religion? If you feel your religion is the correct religion, why would you then encourage your children to go elsewhere and pursue their own religion? I would take this comment to mean that you are not certain of your own religion. That definitely does not make sense to me. If, when they grow up, they wish to pursue their own religion or have different beliefs from which they were raised to believe, then they can do what they want, but it is the parent's job to raise their children in what they believe is the correct faith. Having a family living together in one home with different beliefs in religion to me could not possibly be as comfortable as everyone having the same religion. That would be like asking a child in elementary school to just take the subjects you like, and that would be recess.
They are not old enough to make those important decisions that will affect their adult lives. Also, I think that is putting a lot of pressure on a young child.
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"Jim Fisher" PA28...@hiwaay.net
I'm not for or against one religion, but I will say this: One of the main tenants of any "religion" is to indoctrinate others into your way of thinking. This has held true for thousands of years.
To give your kids a choice seems to go against this tenant and thereby undermines your (evident) intent to develop a spiritual child.
If you are a religious person, it would seem to me that you would want your kids to be exposed to the things that you truly believe in, whatever that may be. If you leave it up to them, you are not giving them guidance and are probably confusing the hell out of them. After all, religion is such a nebulous concept that guidance is absolutely necessary if one is to succeed in raising a child with a "strong" religious belief system.
I also believe that young children, if you wish them to have a strong spiritual foundation, are physically incapable of deciding what religion is "best" for them. Mommy and daddy decide that for them. At least until puberty arrives when the child is psychologically and physiologically developed enough to be able to weigh the really "heavy" and conflicting philosophies inherent in differing religions.
Expose them to everything and they will believe nothing. They may or may not be a better person for that.
Jim
"B and B" baboonnliz...@prodigy.net
This is very true.
"B and B" baboonnliz...@prodigy.net
And that is a good way of doing that as well.
hamil ...@dnvln.com (hamilton)
I am not sure what choosing even means in this context. Children not raised with faith are unlikely to choose it later. After all there is nothing reasonable or sensible about religion -- what are the criteria for choice? Certainly nothing logical. Given the fact that religion is an emotional commitment and not a logical one, delaying a child's religious training and introduction to faith just reduces the likelihood of any faith at all. Not that this is a bad thing -- but it doesn't seem to be the goal of those discussing this.
Ericka Kammerer eek...@home.com
Personally, I don't think the cognitive development of very young children is up to the task of choosing a religion.
They might well be able to decide which one has the most fun rituals, but I don't think they have the intellectual ability to understand what it *means* from a religious perspective until later.
My take would be to bring the child up into the family value system, being careful to encourage a basic understanding of other perspectives and tolerance for diversity. As the child gets older, they will naturally start to question things. That's your opportunity to make the case for the religion you have chosen, and to point the child in the direction of resources that can explain other options. Generally, by the time the child has worked through those options, he or she is old enough it's a bit of a moot point whether you should have "allowed" exploration of other religions or not ;-) If the child isn't old enough or mature enough to have good *questions* about religion, he or she probably isn't old enough or mature enough to really explore the issue and make an independent decision. If the child *is* mature enough to have important questions, there probably isn't anything (healthy) you can do to stop his or her exploration, so you might as well enable a well-informed and lively debate.
Just my $0.02, Ericka
--
The return address on this message works, but it goes to an account I weed out only on occasion. To send me email, send to my first name dot my last name at home dot com and watch the spelling ;-)
hamil ...@dnvln.com (hamilton)
oh absolutely -- of course they would raise the child in their faith --
the only issue then becomes when they allow the child to depart from it --
I would vote for confirmation age -- if the child does not wish to continue at 14 or so, then they ought to be able to choose not to do so.
"Smark" not.provi...@all.com
Ah, yes. Little Arnold sure does make you think. Especially when he says "Whachu talkinabout, Willis?" Indeed, what is Willis talking about? What are any of us really talking about? How do we even know we really exist?
Steve rste...@armory.com
Then they should be FORCED to, forced to keep such *REAL* PORNOGRAPHY as religion out of the home!!
Steve
Steve rste...@armory.com
YOU just told the BIG TRUTH and you don't even ****ing realize it!!
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Then how are we to tell the difference between religions going in??
Are you stating that we're not SUPPOSED to reason?? Are you suggesting that whether a child is "beaten into" some religion like a ****ing street gang is the sole reason they would be eligible for "hebbin"??
That is like pretending that you're "just s'posed to believe" without saying WHAT your supposed to believe or WHY!!
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Only if NONE OF THOSE RELIGIONS MAKE ANY ****ING SENSE, and they DON'T!!
If there is a belief system that MAKES sense then they will find it if they are now browbeaten in some phony-baloney Xtian sunday school!! And often even if they ARE, along with extreme hatred for religious people ever after to the EXCLUSION of ALL religions!
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That isn't a bad thing, that's a VERY VERY "Good Thing(tm)"!!
Steve
Steve rste...@armory.com
I think age zero myself, kids should be barred BY LAW from "joining" or taking part in a religion till they are teenagers!! After all it wouldn't be voluntary or an informed choice!
Steve
Steve rste...@armory.com
Why would you think YOU were, you ignorant fundy cunt!?
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I would say that you're not sure of your own religion if you're afraid your children wouldn't pick it over the others!! If your religion makes so little ****ing sense as that then it DESERVES to have the kids leave it BIGTIME!!
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No, it is the child's duty to judge their parents, as they are sent into the world with new eyes to see with, and they must judge you!! Jesus wanted the little kids to be free to come to him, not be FORCED to, you ignorant churchy little whore!
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Not to the ones in that family who weren't sure of THEIR OWN religion!
That's the problem, you secretly want your kids BRAINWASHED so that they won't question the SHIT that YOU know you barely believe YOUSELF!!
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Kids don't do that for long, see "Summerhill" where such an experiment is tried every year, and every year after experiencing freedom the students finally decide to organize cl***es and hunt up teachers!
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That's total bullshit that you maintain because you're frightened of your kids judging your stupid ****ing religion honestly and telling you you're the moron that you are for believinbg such crap!!
Steve
tarkaan-NOS ...@bigfoot.com
Why haven't you answered my question about the ignorant comment you made about hunting in an earlier thread?
-- Jack Tarkaan -- mailto:tark...@bigfoot.com
-- Return address intentionally broken. Remove NOSPAM to reply.
cwe ...@eclipse.net (Cathy Weeks)
I think the kid would have be old enough to go by himself/herself. I don't mean that he or she'd have to get there alone, but be old enough to be dropped off.
How old is that? I suppose it depends on the child. I'd say anywhere from 9 and up, depending on a lot of factors. If he or she wants to go, (shouldn't be forced) if he or she can sit quietly during the service, or attend sunday school or whatever.
As for all religions, I believe that Wicca certainly counts as one. But atheism?
I think it counts as more of an absence of religion and a disbelief in God and religious thinking. I can't really answer that one since I myself am an athiest. I would encourage my kids to explore any religion, though, as long as it didn't have a doctrine of hurting people, or hatred of any subgroup.
I wouldn't forbid them to go, but I would make my objectioins to the doctrine known. Cathy Weeks edd 12/12/01
cwe ...@eclipse.net (Cathy Weeks)
<laugh> I grew up Unitarian, and though it's a pretty liberal religion, few there are as ah, radical as you. Most UU churches encourage kids to visit other religions, and to view them with respect (but not necessarily belief).
Cathy Weeks edd 12/12/01
"High" highb1...@home.com
One year in Sunday School (I think it was the 12-13 year age group) we had "field trips" to many different religious services as a part of the church school year. It was interesting. As an adult, I have also been to different religious services such as weddings, funerals, and christenings. In my teens, I didn't go very often , though, and for a while I became disenchanted with my church and went around to different ones, but I ended up back at the church my grandparents helped build, and I was raised and baptized in. It just felt more comfortable to me...it's not just a building , but a community of people who provide support, companionship, and have common goals.
I am Eastern Orthodox, my husband was raised Lutheran , and our children were baptized and are being raised Orthodox. They also go to Catholic school. I find that my children are much more interested in God than I remember being at their age. I don't take the Bible literally, and I'm not entirely convinced that Jesus is the Son of God etc etc, but I find the overall message of the Gospel and continuity of the Liturgy very comforting.
I feel that children should be raised with some sort of religious background, but that they should not be "dropped off" or sent alone, it should be a family thing otherwise you appear hypocritical ("Why do I have to go if you don't, Mom?") Young adulthood, the time when kids question everything that their parents have told them, might be a good time for them to explore other churches if they so desire. In Christianity, the message is basically the same, the packaging is just different. My family roots go way back in our church, from the 1930's when it was just a mission church worshipping in a rented building, to now, a parish with more than 300 families. My mom is the treasurer and my uncle is in charge of the cemetary LOL. This gives me a good feeling, I'm not sure why, but it does.
On an (OT) aside, there are not many children in our neighborhood, and a while ago, I was pleased when my kids said they found some kids to play with a couple of streets away. Well...it turns out these kids are Baptist, they go to a Baptist school at a humongous local Baptist church. After a few weeks, these kids started telling mine that they "weren't Christian" and "aren't saved" because they weren't Baptists. Now at the time, my children were very familiar with baptism because they had recently been to the baptisms of my youngest son, and my brother's son (OS served as altar boy for both , for which he was very honored :-) . These kids started to pressure mine to go to their church! In a few days, my sons didn't want to play with them any more, they said they were "scary". No offense to any of you who are Baptist, but this was weird. My sons also have not asked to attend the Catholic church ***ociated with their school, even though most of their friends go there. For now, they are content.
Sorry if this got too long, Becky ...
<>...
Farmer *censor...@home.com
I, as a child, hated religion, now it's interesting to study it and learn about it, but back then I hated it, in fact I felt that it completly wasted my time. So my suggestion is that you just basically keep doing what you're doing, and if they ask show them. If you feel like giving them a small shove to learn about different religions, I don't really see any problem in that. So long as they aren't forced into it and don't come to resent you.
What I'm basically trying to say is this; Religion shouldn't be a chore or a duty.
It should be something you WANT to do.
That's what faith is, because if you don't have any, then why bother going?
- Dave
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