New to group- anxiety and self-esteem
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"3DRaW" idra...@hotmail.com
Hi everyone, This is my first time speaking to anyone about my anxiety, but I can't stand keeping it in anymore and I have lost so much faith in incompetent doctors.
As a result of having GAD, I have a lot of anticipatory anxiety and I strongly feel that a great deal of it stems from my lack of self esteem.
Does anyone else feel this way? I have always been so overly worried about what others think of me (since I was a child), trying to please everyone else, that it is crippling. In the past few years I have increasing problems with that tightness in my chest, shallow breathing, rapid pulse whenever something occurs that deals with how someone thinks of me. For instance today, I had a student write me a nasty email (I teach at two local colleges) saying, "I resent you for this and that...".... blah blah, and I immediately started shaking all over, trembling (I couldn't type), my heart was going a mile a minute, my legs went weak, and the tightness in my chest was awful. I'm absolutely petrified of going to teach that cl*** this Monday- it invades my thoughts almost every 5 minutes... just thinking about her confronting me (I've had another student confront me in cl*** and she ended up throwing her books on the floor and storming out). It is like this every week... I dread going to cl*** for fear of what will happen, what they will think. I want to do well at my job; I want the student's to like me as a teacher; and my boss too. But I have no faith in myself because of my self-esteem..... therefore I feel intense anxiety about going to every cl***, out of fear of what they all think of me. One week I was so overwrought with anxiety, I ended up sick to my stomach and couldn't go to cl*** (which made things worse, because I worried about what they would think about me missing another cl***). Then the topper tonight was.... even after all I've been through in my life and childhood (yes, I have major clinical depression too).... after starting back to work this past January after being unable to work for a year because of the anxiety and depression... my husband finally admitted tonight that he has little faith in me... and he doesn't believe in me when it comes to me succeeding in work etc. I'm crushed. My whole life, I've never had anyone who believed in me, and now the one person I chose to share my entire life with (we've only been married 2 years), doesn't believe in me either... when I need it the most.
I'm devastated and hurt. I feel so alone. Correction I currently feel alone and very anxious.... constantly. I can't do anything without becoming anxious about what others think of me, or out of fear of confrontation.
Is there anyone who is similar in this respect?
Thanks for listening, Hope
"Nancy Daniels" nan...@sympatico.ca
Hi there, Welcome to the group. I have a similar self esteem problem but it doesn't sound as bad as yours. Have you tried any form of counselling yet? This would be a good first step.
There are plenty of people on this board with tons of great advice. Try to calm yourself for now and take care of yourself.
Nancy
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Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
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margr ...@aol.com (Margrove)
snipped for space get yourself some cbt cognitive behavioral therapy please your insight into why you have little self esteem is right on the money-now you can learn how to challenge your distorted thinking--
a=activating event or adversary a student writes you a vitriolic e mail b= your belief----I must be liked c=the emotional consequence-you feel hurt dejected and angry which continues to prove how worthless you are for feeling dejected and angry so now you feel guilty on top of it all d-the disputational process there is no law written in the universe that states you must be liked loved or hated by everyone or anyone. You strongly prefer to be liked it feels better and is easier to live with certainly, but you do not need it-nor is the viewpoints or perceptions of others about you meritorious or of value unless you believe the are so. If I believed you were a godess-would that make you one-if I believed you were a shit would that make you one? No. so therefore others beliefs about you are just that-their beliefs and they may have merit or value or they may not-jus because your spouse doesn't have faith in your abilities or the sensitivity to be supportive doesn't meanits tru or he is correct-it just means he believes this and you have a choice-to do same or to challenge the validity of what he is saying.
e-the rational emotional consequence-you feel concerned that others may dislike you or be unsupportive but you do not demand they be any other way then they are and you define your own sense of self worth feelings of lack of self esteem is a pleasant way of saying you are shit scared of what others think about you -that you do not fullfill some standard of perfection that either you have actively created or incorporated from significant others in your life...
best luck LM
"3DRaW" idra...@hotmail.com
Thanks Nancy, I have sought counseling... with no luck. Just therapist after therapist who wants to listen to me talk and talk but never work with me, never set goals, or constructively interact with me... they just sit there and listen... if I'm silent they just stare at me. When I ask for goals, their opinion, ideas on steps I can take to do something about it, they hem and har.. with no answers... I've seen 4 therapists and I've lost a lot of faith in the profession. Sad, because I'm educated in the same profession as them.
Thanks for your reply, you're right I need to find 'something' to calm myself... but that's sometimes easier said than done! :o) Thanks for the welcome too,
-Hope ...
"PJ" M...@home.com
Hi Hope, Sorry to hear about your current state....even more sorry to hear that after a year off, and 4 therapists, your still have not received the help that you need. That's not your fault, by the way.....I've lost count of how many therapists I've tried. The good ones are out there, but it's up to us to find them.
You deserve the support of your husband, and I can't imagine the disappointment you feel. I can only guess that it's a result of his ignorance. Like most of the community, he probably ***umes that most doctors and therapists know what they're doing and can help anyone that comes along, therefore, it must be *your* fault that you're not "getting better".
You simply need to keep looking, until you find someone who can help you.
Margrove spoke in his post about a belief which requires your approval from others, and I think he's right on the mark, there. However, such an ingrained belief is unlikely to give up overnight.....you need some way to cope in the meantime. Perhaps your doctor can advise you about some medication which would allow you to calm down and think straight.
Ahead of that, however, you need to "front up" to school, and *that* student. Perhaps you could think of the situation in a different way ?....perhaps side-step this issue of being liked ? Try substituting "like" for "RESPECT".
You can't possibly make everybody like you, but you can, through being persistantly consistent, earn people's respect.
You're a teacher. You're paid to teach. While it is valuable to you ( at present ) that your students like you, it is NOT THE BASIS of either your terms of employment or your ability to teach. I remember a teacher who taught me maths for 2 years. I really didn't like him at all at first, but by the end of the 1st year I *RESPECTED* him...I admired his commitment and talent for teaching new concepts. By the end of the 2nd year I loved him, and will never forget his impact on my life.
Given the choice, I would rather be respected than liked...respect has a lasting quality.
Go to school.....stand up to that student. If the student is still unmanagable, and you're out of ideas or patience, let someone ( like the Head ) handle it. Likewise with your husband. Make it known you've worked hard to sort yourself out, and it's not your fault that you're not "fixed".
Make it clear you're not going to give up on yourself, only the useless therapists.
I really hope this helps....I wish you the very best.
Pete.
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"PJ" M...@home.com
Hi Hope, Thought about your hubby....his ":finally admitting he's lost faith in you"...
It's hard work living with someone who's battling with anxiety ( just ask my wife ) ...it's exhausting being the "strong" one. Maybe he hit a low spot, and needed to express his own loss of faith in the recovery process...maybe it wasn't directed at you personally, and perhaps you shouldn't be taking it as a *loss of faith* in you directly. I heard Dr. John Gray ( Mars, Venus author ) say that men, when told of a problem, want to fix it....I believe that. Maybe hubby's frustrated and deflated because he realises he doesn't have the right tools....and you can't seem to find anyone that does.
Keep looking for the right mechanic.
Ok, Im done now.
take care, Pete ...
jeannie ...@aol.comnojunk (JeannieG84)
Hi Hope...sorry this is such a rough time for you. It must be very difficult to be a teacher and deal with this anxiety. It is a given that teachers will not always be liked by their students. Now that I am an old lady of 39 with a daughter of 16, I have developed a shell as to what young people think of me.
Now, I don't think that the opinions of teens and young adults have no validity. But I do know that I have more years on them, more life experience, and have been through a hell of a lot of rough times. So, the unreasonable remarks of a "kid" tend to roll right off my back. I work with a 23 year old who shares my space, and I have had to be quite philosophical about some of the things she says and does. It sounds like you might benefit from a med to help you get your thoughts and your physical anxiety symptoms under some control. I had a great therapist.
She left the practice where I saw her, and due to insurance I could not follow her to her private practice. I really miss her. She helped me, each time I saw her, to turn my negative perceptions about myself around so that when I left her office I felt I could take on the world. She helped me to learn to do that for myself without her, but I do miss her. I am sorry you have had bad experiences. There are good therapists out there.
Jeannie
"3DRaW" idra...@hotmail.com
Hi Margrove, Thanks for your reply- I love all the info, that's great. Ironically enough... try not to laugh sarcastically too much here....... I teach cognitive behavior modification. Ha ha.
So I am well aware of my thought processes (have done all the exercises of writing down my thoughts, identifying my thought patterns with my behavior, and attempting to substitute them with more appropriate, adaptive thought processes- and on and on). Three of the four therapists I've been to claimed to be cognitive behavior therapists (that's what was so frustrating, sitting there knowing a general idea of what they should be doing, and all they did was sit there and not say anything). I chose them based on their claims.
I've had two therapists fall asleep on me regularly (after the third time I dropped them), and I had one therapist tell me, "you need to grow up. You are not a child anymore. It is quite obvious depression is something you CHOSE " (this after telling her my only parent, my mom, died when I was a teen, and my 3 closest friends throughout life have all been killed, not to mention two other good friends I've lost as well.... and I'm only 29). So I decided not to stay with someone like her, no matter how bad my anxiety in forming new relationships was.
I constantly practice saying, "I don't need everyone to like me". I know it is impossible... I often think of it this way... no person in all of history has been liked by everyone they knew. And while I know that I'm in the right, for example with that student, I still get overwhelmed with anxiety at the thought of going to cl*** and having her be there... even though I know I was in the right. I'm scared of her confronting me in front of everyone.... because I respond to such situations with anxiety.... voice quivering, muscles go weak, limbs shaking, heart racing a mile a minute.
BTW, I wrote that student back firmly telling them their lack of respect would get them nowhere and reiterating the cl*** policies (and I must say, it was an AWESOME reply, if I do say so myself :o) ) But I'm still overcome with anxiety about seeing her again. Also, I know my husband's opinion of me is merely that- his opinion- but I can't go through my life with no one's support, approval. I mean the line has to be drawn somewhere.
While I don't *believe* his opinion is true (if I've made it this far in life after everything, then he really doesn't see how much strength I really do have), it is absolutely crushing to know the one person's opinion who I DO value in this world, is the one who doesn't believe in me. We all need acceptance on a certain level... obviously mine is way out of balance... but nonetheless it's painful having it come from someone who has seen where I've been and yet can give me no credit for where I am, simply because I'm not ALL BETTER.
I need to get another therapist, but currently we don't have the money. So I'm trying to do as much as I can on my own.
I greatly appreciate your post... while it was all familiar to me (to say the least :o) ), it was really helpful to hear someone else put my behavior in a framework for once (instead of myself). It gave me some insight.....
my hardest problem is, I know the error of my ways (especially cognitively), but I have struggled for years trying to be successful *after* making the jump to change- I want to find something or someone that can help me make it WORK. It sucks... the one thing I'm really good at is devil's advocate... no matter how many positive, adaptive thoughts I say to myself, I can make a really good case against them. And you were right on about the 'standard of perfection'.
Thanks for letting me vent here... if you even got this far!!! Phew!!!
Thanks again for your help- insight is golden.
Best wishes, Hope PS Just talking about all this has my chest in knots.
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"3DRaW" idra...@hotmail.com
Hi Pete, You're right about my husband. He wants to fix things with me all the time... the good side is he's read Mars and Venus and readily recognizes that that's what he's trying to do!! He says he used to believe in me, but because I'm so convincing about myself, and how I constantly have the same anxious reaction time after time over the same experiences, he now believes all my personal fears about myself are really reality (that's what I get for sharing that with him) and says it's impossible almost to believe in someone when all the evidence points to the contrary. He's not exactly on my favorites list today. He knows my therapists were crap... he's been there and was appalled by them. But you're right in that he does not understand the nature of what is wrong- despite all the info I give him and all the therapists that have tried to explain it to him. He really believes that I am responsible for the recovery process not working, not the other way around. It sucks, because I support him like crazy with all kinds of issues he has continuously.
I guess I forgot to mention that I did write that student back, it was an firm response. Ignoring her jabs at me, but confronting her by using the very words you said, "her lack of respect". I BELIEVE I am right about what happened and about how I have set up the cl*** policies (she's pissed because I decided I would no longer make exceptions on late ***ignments, due to gross misuse of the policy).... but I start to question myself when all I hear are student's complaints.
As soon as we have some money I intend on going to a doctor for meds...
however, we are struggling with infertility so there are not a lot of drugs that are safe for me to use at this point in time (the field is narrowed considerably). I know I need to keep trying to find a therapist who does FIT me... but I am sooo tired right now emotionally. I feel like no one can help me, although I know that is not true. It just takes to much energy to find someone, meet them, get your hopes up, divulge your personal life to them...only to find out they can't help you.
Thanks for reminding me about respect versus like.... I really used the wrong word in my post.....I could care less really if they like me... but I *really* would like my student's respect.... and it's quite clear that I don't have it. I guess that's what this is all about.... I want their respect. And I do fear that since this is my first semester teaching, the evaluation I receive by my dept chair on Monday and all semester long (and the other professors opinions of me as a teacher) is done partly based on whether or not the students like me. Isn't that in part what makes a good teacher? I don't know.... this is really getting the best of me. My new mantra is.... " I could care less what happens or what they think, who cares". I repeat it to myself every few minutes when the thoughts first come into my head.
Your post really did help. I'll probably re-read it a few times over the weekend. It was nice source of support.... offering strength to me. Thanks Best wishes to you too!
Hope ...
"3DRaW" idra...@hotmail.com
Thanks Jeannie, I know I need to keep trying. I think that part of the problem with my students is there is a small age gap between us. I'm 29 so they probably have much less respect for me versus all the other professors who are quite a bit older than I am.
I wish I could develop that shell you have... any tricks to doing so??
Thanks again!
-Hope ...
"elise57" rwe...@1st.net
Hi, Hope, Sorry life is taking such a toll on you right now. Have you seen a psychiatrist for your GAD. It sounds like you could use to see a therapist and talk about your self esteem and other issues in your life. You don't need to let a few students here and there give you anxiety and start to rob you of your anxiety and life. Please consider talking to a therapist - it could do wonders to turn around your negative thinking...
smiles, elise ...
"Chip" chipmonk__...@hotmail.com
I suspect you are afraid of what others think of you because you may already unconsciously think and fear it about yourself. Get over that (not easy), and you won't care what others think.
I have found the best way to build my self esteem is to do things and accomplish things. Like some comedian said, life is 90% just showing up. I think it's true.
Chip
Philip Peters phi...@p-peters.demon.nl
From the way you describe those counselors I understand that they did not do *Cognitive Behavioural Therapy* - challenging *cognitive distortion* and restructure catastrophic thinking and then go out and practice what you learned by way of *baby steps*. It??s amazing how well this works for many and with panic/anxiety it is the only therapy (in its incarnation as CBT or as REBT) that actually has a proven good track record.
Philip
Liz gardeningart...@ttlc.net
Hello Hope, Your anxiety is really giving you a run for your money. Have you thought about seeing a psychiatrist for meds and/or learning Cognitive Behavior Therapy? These things can help you get your anxiety reduced.
Also, it would not hurt to pick a quiet time and discuss your feelings with your husband. If things don't seem to be settled, maybe you both could have some therapy together. Teaching is not always easy. I did it for twenty years. But it shouldn't be causing you this much distress. Perhaps with some therapy and perhaps meds, you can come to enjoy it again.
Sending you lots of strength!
Take care, Liz In article <aesG6.1845$e85.861...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "3DRaW"
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Problems are only opportunities in work clothes.
--Henry Kaiser
blndeb ...@aol.com (Stephanie)
Pete Wrote: Very well put, Pete.
To you Hope, I can fully understand where you are coming from. I have taught students as well and there is always a bad apple in the bunch. I soon learned to *put down the rules* to my students and it helped immensely. I did not ask to be liked, rather I used reverse psychology on them. I simply told them, either we respect one another or we can agree to disagree, but the fact remains is this: You p*** on your own, regardless of whether or not you respect or like me. The choice is yours. To this day, they call me on occasion just to check in. I do hope that your job gets a bit easier. I admire teachers and I admire you for being so concerned about your students. I know it is not an easy path, as nursing is not. The rewards are there though. I, too was very scared when I first started teaching (low self esteem) I actually bolted on a few occasions.
My students actually brought me out of that.
Best to you, Steph :-)
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