NLP and Alcohol Addiction
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venus uzynski venu...@swbell.net
Hi All, Just curious. How many of you have used NLP to treat alcohol addiction? Or have used NLP to deal with your own alcohol addiction?
What can someone expect from using NLP as an intervention? Would you use it conjunction with AA? Instead of AA?
And what do you believe is the responsibility of a friend or relative towards the person suffering from alcohol addiction?
For what it's worth, I went to the Temperance list to get info, but it doesn't look like the list has been active for some time.
That's why I'm bringing my questions here.
I'd sincerely like to explore this topic at some depth and will appreciate any and all comments you folks may have.
Thanks in advance, Venus
"M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" zn...@aracnet.com
AA is a self-contained "spiritual" program. I was in Al-Anon for a while, which is quite similar. They tend to have their own ways of doing things, and strong belief systems. NLP and hypnosis are foreign languages to them.
From my exposure to NLP and Ericksonian hypnosis, I'd guess that NLP could work with alcoholics or addicts, but I have no personal experience with that. AA can work too. So can Rational Recovery. I'd be very leery of trying to combine AA and NLP.
A 12-step program will teach you that your responsibility is to yourself.
If you want to find out more, seek out an Al-Anon meeting. I personally got nothing out of Al-Anon; I stuck with it for over a year, and it just didn't seem to do anything for me. NLP was a lot more help.
Michael DeBusk m_deb...@my-deja.com
I believe I'd recommend almost anything instead of AA. There's very little that has been shown less effective than AA.
If they ask you for a ride to the detox, I'd say go ahead and give them a ride.
Whatever approach one takes to addiction treatment, the most important first level is making sure they live long enough to quit. A decent hospital or detox center should be able to monitor them medically while they go through withdrawal and make sure they don't seize to death. The old joke goes, "everybody quits drinking... eventually." AA is a joke. There are people who will defend the AA religion with the fervor of any fundamentalist: "It was good for William Wilson, It was good for William Wilson, It was good for William Wilson, And it's good enough for me." They'll usually say something along the lines of "it saved my life," like that means it works for everybody. It works for them, so it works, period.
And you can for get the simplest logical approach; that has no effect on the faithful.
AFAIK, we're here to discuss a field that's all about what works. As NLPers, if we want to help someone quit drinking, we find people who've done so successfully and we find out how they did it.
The Veteran's Administration did a study of this sort several years ago, wanting to find the most effective alcohol abuse treatment program. (Success was measured by whether or not the client stayed sober for AT LEAST one year after the treatment commenced.) AA was damn near the bottom. I think it beat out "videotaping him drunk and then showing him the tape when he's sober" and that's about it.
The single most effective method was (drumroll please) cold turkey. I believe it was effective 55% of the time. The alcohol abuser decides to quit, quits, white-knuckles through the withdrawal, and simply doesn't drink again. No meetings, no treatment of any kind.
Next in line was acupuncture. IIRC, it was successful about a third of the time or more.
http://silcom.com/~paladin/cjs-ac-tx.html Methods such as Rational Recovery, based on REBT, were not included in the study. RR claims a success rate of over 50%. http://rational.org/recovery/
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venus uzynski venu...@swbell.net
Dear Mike, Thanks for your input. I really appreciated reading the articles about acupuncture and Rational Recovery. Especially the Rational Recovery site was very helpful.
I've spoken with a friend of mine who attends Al-Anon and plan to attend an Al-Anon meeting with her, however I'm really put off by the disease model of alcoholism. It seems to take all the power away from the person with the addiction, and provides an excuse for the addict's behavior.
In fact, my friend went so far as to say that she considers it like diabetes or any other disease that progresses with time. I think it's a lame excuse.
This is one of the reasons I'm interested in what NLP can do for the addict. Because NLP ***umes the person can change and can be the master of his or her destiny. I think the idea that you are responsible for your own choices is a lot more empowering.
Though to the addict, the siren song of the disease model is probably a lot more alluring.
Thanks again, Mike, for taking the time to post and for the help you've offered to me off line as well. I really appreciate it!
Take care, Venus
"John Byrne" hped...@iprimus.com.au
Hi Venus, I did some extremely successful work with a close friend of mine, who was at the point where the doc said "If you don't stop drinking altogether, you'll die." The process went as follows: 1) Elicit behaviour desired INSTEAD of drinking - test for ecology (will they be better off) 2) Elicit TOTE strategy involved in DESIRED behaviour (eg: Visual Internal Diss***oc. => Auditory Internal and so on) 3) Elicit TOTE strategy for drinking behaviour (Ask them..."how do you know it's time for a drink?" ...then watch their eyes....check and recheck) 4) Induce a profound trance......now it's time to do a TOTE "splice"....what I mean by this is that you instruct them that every time they enter the trigger for the "drinking TOTE" that they will then respond with the next step from the "desired behaviour TOTE" and that that particular tote will complete. Run them through it a few times...telling them what to do at first...then let them watch it start..and tell them to watch the new TOTE take place instead. Some future pacing can be done here also.
5) Regress them back to 6 weeks ago, and let them see that they stopped drinking then...guide them through the pain of withdrawal and let them get it over and done with in trance. Bring them back to now, with the withdrawal all done.
6) Install amnesia for the trance work as appropriate...my favourite method is to tell them to "remember to forget to remember" what happened in trance, but to "keep it in the back of their mind" where it will do most good. Wake them from the trance (always a good idea!) This has been incredibly successful, but I would remark that this person was told NOT to drink ever. This may not be what most people are looking for...however, with some careful wording, and Trigger manipulation, there could be a way to "conditionalise" the TOTEs so that they can have a drink where appropriate, and then stop.
My friend has been dry for 4 years now, and has had extremely stressful circumstances in their life, which before, would have caused them to drink.
By the way, he attended AA for many months with a negative effect, that is, he said going there was so depressing that it made him want to drink! After the above work was done (in one session, mind you!) he felt no need to attend AA, and never did again.
Oh, and venus......"statue?" (Remember me?) John Byrne ...
Kurt Arbuckle k...@starbase.neosoft.com
: I've spoken with a friend of mine who attends Al-Anon and plan to : attend an Al-Anon meeting with her, however I'm really put off by : the disease model of alcoholism. It seems to take all the power : away from the person with the addiction, and provides an excuse : for the addict's behavior.
: In fact, my friend went so far as to say that she considers it : like diabetes or any other disease that progresses with time. I : think it's a lame excuse.
: This is one of the reasons I'm interested in what NLP can do for : the addict. Because NLP ***umes the person can change and can be : the master of his or her destiny. I think the idea that you are : responsible for your own choices is a lot more empowering.
: Though to the addict, the siren song of the disease model is : probably a lot more alluring.
Just a thought, Venus: If the addict thinks it's a disease, use NLP to cure it. If the addict thinks it is a learned behavior, use NLP to learn a healthier behavior.
If the addict thinks it's X, use NLP to deal with X. Utilize, utilize, and utilize.
Or one could argue with the addict about the model. Ever argue with an addict?
Kurt
venus uzynski venu...@swbell.net
Dear Kurt, You make a very good point. One should start where the addict is. Or with what the addict believes.
As you say, yes, I've tried to argue with addicts when I was younger and they always turned into long convoluted ordeals that never moved the addict off the dime.
Thanks for your input. It's very valuable.
Take care, Venus
seis ...@aol.com (Lynn Seiser PhD MFCC)
IMHO, NLP is very useful in treating adiction. There is a profound stimulus-response ***ociation that can be reworked through anchoring. There is a great deal of positive intent reframing. The metastrategies are rich with contradiction. Some of the current work in memes (thought viruses) is also applicable.
Also, IMHO, the 12-step movement has had more success than any other treatment I know of and its cost-effective and readily available. I tend to utilize it whenever possible. The meetings different so its not really all that hard to find a fit if someone is turned off by the first one they visit.
Hope that helps in some small way.
Lynn (yes, clean and sober of over 10 years) "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." Train well. KWATZ!
Lynn Seiser, PhD MFCC (Seis...@AOL.com) http://members.aol.com/SeiserL/index.html http://hometown.aol.com/AikiSolutions/AikiSolutions.html
venus uzynski venu...@swbell.net
Dear Lynn, Thank you for responding to my post. I really appreciate it. Do you mind expanding a bit where I've got questions below?
Lynn Seiser PhD MFCC wrote: Do you mean reframing the alcoholics positive intentions for becoming sober? Or to reframe some of the reasons the person drinks so they can learn the positive intention of their actions?
Do you mean the alchoholic is operating under a number of metastrategies which are in contradiction with each other? Will you please give an example of this?
The first thing that popped into my head as a meme is "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." And the best you can hope for is to be in recovery. But then I noticed below that you've had success through 12-step programs, so I'm wondering which memes you are referring to.
What do you do if the person says they're feeling sick and tired of being sick and tired, but can't seem to bring themselves to attend an AA meeting? I mean, what can family and friends do to support the person in getting help?
Yes, Lynn, it does help. And I thank you.
Lynn, you have my utmost respect for conquering your own demons and I'm glad to see that you use what you know about NLP to help other people conquer theirs.
With much appreciation, Venus
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