prolife options organized by the church?
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"tim, susan, annika" goir...@sherbtel.net
i live in the minneapolis area. does the church organize any sort of help for pregnant women/couples who want their child but fear they can't be responsible? thanks.
"Gregory J. Dulmes" gjdul...@earthlink.net
Why don't you try calling your local priest or bishop?
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********************************************************************* The Lieutenant of Angband "Sauron was become now a sorceror of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms, foul in wisdom, cruel in strength, misshaping what he touched, twisting what he ruled; his dominion was torment." - The Silmarillion "Then Iluvatar spoke, and he said, "...And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but my instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined." - The Silmarillion
Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
The Catholic Church has several ministries dealing with unexpected and/or problem pregnancies. Check in the telephone book under Catholic ***ociated Charities, if there is not a local listing, call a local Catholic Church and they will help.
In addition, Check with a vew different Religious Organizations.
Paula
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
I think their problem is more with the fear of being bad parents.
Something every parent faces with the first child. There should be pre-natal support groups for this in your area. Ask your midwife.
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
Midwife???? Scary.
If you want good advice on parenting without *slants* etc, go to the bookstore and pick up a book called: My Baby Book by Homes and Gardens.
It covers everything from morning sickness to childhood diseases. A very good place to start for those first time expecting parents. The comment *fear they can't be responsible*... a clue in that there is more to this story than just the *first time parent* jitters.
Paula
Stephanie D. Rendino bea...@videotron.ca
Paula, do you never tire of being mean? Midwives are how MOST babies are born in England. Alan is in England.
Furthermore, I'm a longstanding advocate of the midwife movement. I don't consider them scary, I consider them something we need many more of. Hospital births---now they're scary! (Although of course sometimes there is no choice.)
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Why? Very intelligent and highly trained people who are aware of the support available to people. Can I ask, do what your qualifications are?
Does this book give support to those parents who are scared that they cannot cope? That was the question.
Exactly why they need more than a book! And need more than you telling them that qualified people are scary!
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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When the only colour is black -
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Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Midwives are also the main delivery method in hospital! They have far more knowledge about delivery than any doctor, it is what they specialise in! Doctors are called when there are complications that require one. Most problems are spotted by the midwife. Ask any doctor in the UK if he would ignore the advice of a midwife.
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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When the only colour is black -
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Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
Well, I'm in America. And, let's see, both of my parents were delivered by midwives. My father was born not breathing, oh.. joy.., so the midwife wrapped him in newspaper, placed him in a waste paper basket, and told my granparents my father was dead. My grandfather, unusually staying at home during my father's birth, retrieved my father from the waste paper basket, the mid wife told him *Put that back! That is of no concern to you*. My grandfather glared at the midwife and reprimanded her, *Well, if its dead, I can't hurt it*. My grandfather then breathed into my father's mouth, and lo and behold, my father began to breathe and lived on for 72 years.
Births by midwives are a growing thing in the USA. And, I would dare to say that for normal births midwives are probably okay. However, thinking from my own experiences and feelings, if I was in labor and something went wrong (as did with my first anf fourth deliveries) the last person I would want handling things would be a midwife..and remember, these two labors were progressing quite normally without incident until things went wrong. The idea of being in labor at home and having something go awry then waiting for an ambulance to arrive and cart a woman and child in distress to the hospital is an awful thought.
My suggestion is: If you go the mid-wife route, arrange for the delivery to take place at a hospital under the supervision of an experienced ob/gyn.
The hospitals here have done a great job of creating a home atmosphere and they are vey laxed about who can attend a delivery. I know one family who had all the siblings (9) in attendance for the birth of #10.
(BIGGGGG FAMILY).
Much of the reduction in infant mortality rates is directly attributable to the advances of modern medicine and technology. It would be stupid not to utilize them. Additionally, hospitals offer great deals on labor and delivery..my fourth child cost less than one half the cost of my first one. Labor and delivery and 24 hour stay $1300. I went into the hospital on sunday evening, son was born on monday morning, we went home tuesday afternoon, baby and I went to work wednesday morning.
Paula
Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
Well, as you could tell from my previous post, use of a midwife under the supervision of an experienced ob/gyn and delivery occuring in a hospital is fine by me. Paula
Karen H Jarvis kjne08...@blueyonder.co.uk
Thank goodness for the NHS. Cost - nothing!!!!
--
Karen Growing old is inevitable.
Growing up is still an option.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/donate-4-free/donate-main.asp
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Well that is because in America you still think Doctors have some miraculous power. Having worked in Hospitals I know that experience is worth far more than a title. Most Senior doctors always advise the juniors to listen to the experienced nurses, often they can diagnose better.
In the UK the midwife is with you from the very start to after the birth. The midwife is the person who monitors you and your child's health and will be the one to spot the problems long before a doctor will. Also she is the person in the community and will therefore know what services are available and how best to access them. Ask most mothers here who they trust more, the midwife or the doctor, they will always choose the midwife.
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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When the only colour is black -
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Stephanie D. Rendino bea...@videotron.ca
You're kidding. Really? When my mom was living in England she griped that the doctors there all thought they were gods, and that they didn't like it if you contradicted them or asked too many questions.
She was living outside Southampton, I dunno if that would be significant.
Also, unlike the woman Paula talked about in her horror story, midwives today have to have a midwifery degree. In Quebec you can use a midwife in a hospital or birthing centre, though it's illegal to do a home birth (grrrr). I have heard that most births in England are home births, but I don't know if that is true or not.
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Past ten years has made a great change to how many view their doctor.
Some of the older folk still worship their consultants :) To listen to them you think they walked on air and performed miracles with a glance.
Most second and third births are. Most first births are still performed in hospital, though it is the mothers choice. But considering that most complication happen on first births then it is sensible. I tried to ignore Paula's comments at times. I remember how she complained that it was wrong to tarnish the priesthood with the actions of one, yet she seems to have no problems with midwifery!
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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When the only colour is black -
the only sound the broken bell THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
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Stephanie D. Rendino bea...@videotron.ca
You know, it was about 10 years ago that she lived in England. One thing my mom loved about the British system though was how you could be referred to alternative medicine. She swears by homeopathy now.
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
The alternative is growing year by year. However I do feel that some has just gone beyond reality and common sense :)
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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When the only colour is black -
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Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
Slow down there buddy. I do not believe doctors have miraculous powers, where in the world would you conjure up that ideal? Let me ask you, would you have your plumber rewire your house? Sure, he's seen it done thousands of times, and even helped out..but.. he's a plumber.. not an electrician.
While midwives (nurses with specific training in childbirth) are probably adequate for non-complicated labor and deliveries, they are not educated, trained, or prepared to handle labors/deliveries gone wrong.
While my third child was delivered by three, very competent, nurses, they were NOT prepared nor trained to handle a delivery on their own.
(Doc stepped out, stepped onto an elevator, and baby decided to arrive before he could get the elevator to change directions). I did not like that the physician missed it, and it did bother the three nurses...and..
they have been there thousands of times, even delivering while under a supervising ob/gyn.. Had something gone wrong, it would have been very, very bad. They were lucky.
An ob/gyn is a specially educated, trained, and experienced physician of a specific specialty. I would not want to not have a person of this caliber responsible for my care. I did not choose for my doc to not be there, and the thought of not paying him did cross my mind. Actually, at the time I told him his fee was whatever the insurance company would cover and I would not fork out any cash for the delivery....
Labor is usually a very dull and boring process. There actually is no need to have anyone there around the clock..
And, pardon me, but I want my husband there with me from the very start and after the birth. This is DADDY's job..not some stranger's.
The midwife is the person who monitors you and your child's Long before a doctor will??? Completely false statement. During my last delivery the doc and nurses were all shook up over the baby's heart rate dropping, even gave me 02, I knew the baby was just still moving about, but they were right on top of it.
I don't think a midwife would have caught on to that even if I told her what was causing the drop in heart rate.
Also she is the person in the community and will therefore know Well, I think that tells much of your particular choice of health care management.. hands-off doctors. I don't have those. Would not choose one. If I found myself with one with a *hands-off* method of medicine, I'd be out the door looking for a new one.
My choice.
Paula
Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
er, childbirth is a bit messy.
I would not want to do that at home.
Paula
"Scout Lady" scoutl...@prodigy.net
You are kidding right? Ouuuucccch!!!
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Paula, I do know what an ob/gyn is. I have probably spent more years working in a hospital than you have being a patient!
Most deliveries are without problems, most midwives deliver babies at a rate of 10:1 to a doctor. Most doctors will stand back and let the midwife work, only stepping in when he is required.
Paula, from the start! When you find you are pregnant! Checking on your health and that of the foetus! That is unless your pregnancy started with labour!
She would have spotted it. Maybe there is a difference in America to the UK. By the sounds of it, your midwives are just nurses. Over here they are specialised only in midwifery. They have the knowledge and the experience required.
Can I ask Paula? During your pregnancy, would you expect to see you expect to see your doctor weekly during the last few months? Would he visit you in your home rather than making you travel to him? Would he advice you in your home on how to prepare for the arrival of the child?
--
Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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When the only colour is black -
the only sound the broken bell THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
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Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Probably not with Paula, she has more problems than anybody I know, has probably made her quite strong!
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
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When the only colour is black -
the only sound the broken bell THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
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Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
Well, good for you..you want a blue ribbon or something? I grew up with the *hospital* .. I know the ins and outs and even the *you don't wanna knows* of the workings of hospitals.
Yes.. with a Doctor overseeing them, supervising, there, in case things go wrong. Like I said.. I don't have a problem with it being that way.
Oh.. for crying out loud.. do you have to be soooooo inane?
No, she would not have. Because she would not have been with me at the umpteen other doctor's visits, would not (in the USA) have experienced the baby's movement, a baby who absolutely hated to be confined or pressured. The mere pressure of the fetal monitor was enough for this child to wriggle and worm during labor, I knew what was going on, doc knew what was going on, etc. The midwife would not have picked up on, as the nurses failed to pick up on, that the baby's drop in heart rate was due to the fact that he was *fighting the monitor*. I knew, and the Doc knew.
I have been pregnant six times. Each of those six times my two doctors (I changed after the birth of my third child/fourth pregnancy) and they were there, at my beck and call, for whatever purpose I deemed I needed them for. For each successful pregnancy I saw my doctor weekly for the eigth month, biweekly for the ninth month, and every two days for any time past my due date. Travel to my doc? NO big deal.. I have to go out anyway to pick up other kids, etc.. he's on the way. Doc is about 5 minutes from my home. What's the big deal? I'd dare say that my ob/gyns knew me better than my husband did.... hehe.. For my last pregnancy my ob/gyn spent three months researching on my behalf to find antibiotics I could take (without having to be admitted to the hospital to have them administered and monitored) if I were to pop up with a positive Strep B infection, he was as relieved as I was to have that test come back negative. My doc is my best friend.
Now.. what?
Paula
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Paula I suggest you look at yourself first!
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the only colour is black -
the only sound the broken bell THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
arc's Gallery: http://www3.mistral.co.uk/xalan/rogue.htm ICQ UIN: 12811297
Alan Ferris xa...@mistral.co.uk
Paula, it must be so nice in your world. Where you know everything and know everything about everybody else!
Maybe that is why it becomes harder and harder to talk with you. I mean when you know everything, what is the point!
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Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the only colour is black -
the only sound the broken bell THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
arc's Gallery: http://www3.mistral.co.uk/xalan/rogue.htm ICQ UIN: 12811297
Paula spock...@bellsouth.net
No, I am not kidding. (although I will admit to dozing off at my desk that first day.. hehe..I own my own business.. so.. I had a nice nursery set up next to my desk) Doc had to make me stay the 24 hours..I wanted to get back home and back to my own life. That's just who I am. I asked the doc when I was going to be able to go home nearly before they cut the baby's cord. What I did find, is that without use of anesthesia, getting up and about after childbirth is much easier. I'm a woman on the go..I have a husband and four kids to keep up with.
There's no slowing down 'round here.
Problems? I don't view anything in my life as a problem. I view things that arrive in life in an attempt to divert my progress to be challenges. I don't believe in facing challenges that life brings to me with a defeatist attitude. You can cry in your coffee, or stand on your two feet and face it, deal with it, and move on. Eventually this game of life will deal me the final card (death), but until that time.. I'll continue to win the game. ;-) Paula
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