Sex, Children, Teen-Pregnancy, and child-support
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Tracy ni...@merlins.place
Over the last couple of weeks this group has seen several posts concerning children and sex. I'm finding it quite interesting that it seems that they are several people who have shifted their views on this subject after child-support (the teen-mother receiving it) is taken out of the formula.
So my question to those who have blamed the teen-mother for having the child, why is it that you strongly oppose children/teens having sex but feel the sexual act, the pregnancy, and the birth is the responsibility of a teen-mother if she has a child?
Many times I have debated with several people in this group concerning the above topic. Never have I ever received from any of those people that a teenager having sex with an adult is WRONG. But now it seems that since MS has presented laws concerning teenagers and the age they can marry...
some of those same people that I have debated with are now saying sex with a teenager is wrong.
If a child/teen having sex is wrong to you, then it should be still wrong even if a baby is the end result. Why the twist in the logic?
As far as my personal opinion... adults should not have sex with a child, period. I don't care if this child is 16 years old or 8 years old. It is my opinion that children should not have sex with other children either.
I don't care what the law states... those laws change over time. I know the martial age limits in many states has increased since I was young, and they will continue to change.
Enough said...
Tracy ~~~~~~~ http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/ ICQ: 18737275 ....................................
I believe that all humans are created equal and deserve the same respect and dignity. Let's end hatred...
*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
Tracy ni...@merlins.place
Tomorrow in alt.child-support, Max Burke expressed: Okay... now let's say she is having sex because of her religion. She doesn't see why it is wrong, and she is consenting to the act. Even you made the comment that this is wrong. So why the twist in opinion? And this point can be applied to both teenage boys as well as girls. If it is wrong to teach a child that sex is okay at any age, then consent shouldn't matter in my opinion. In truth the way the law views it, someone under 18 does not have the legal right to give consent unless they are married.
Not necessarily. This depends on what state. This exact issue has gone back and forth in Oregon. I do believe at this time a teenage girl has the legal right to choose an abortion without her parents consent, but at times in the last 20+ years (since this issue has been an issue in my life) she hasn't had that right. There was a time when she didn't have any choice, and that choice was her parents alone. So would you feel the same way if she lived in a state/country where she didn't have this choice? What if the pregnancy was the outcome of incest or rape? I remember when I was 13, and in middle school, one of my cl***mates was violently raped by her step-father. She ended up pregnant. She didn't have a choice. Her mother choose for her, and that choice was to give birth. Right or wrong?
She above... BTW, the girl I mentioned above attempted suicide while she was pregnant. This was after she tried to abort the pregnancy on her own without success. Her mother pulled her out of school. Just prior to this happening she was in the same grade as I. When she returned she was on grade less than my younger sister, who was one grade less than I. So basically she missed two years of education, ended up going through a pregnancy she didn't want... all due to a rape and having the legal right to choose an abortion.
See the point is Max that you are one of the people who has spoken up on this issue and stated that using religious reasons to have sex with children is wrong. But once a female child has sex it is her responsibility, and her's alone. I find this to be a contradiction.
Tracy ~~~~~~~ http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/ ICQ: 18737275 ....................................
I believe that all humans are created equal and deserve the same respect and dignity. Let's end hatred...
*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
"chris" re...@juno.com
Does morality change because of time or place? In other words, if it is "legal" to consent at one age in one place at a certain time, and "illegal" in another place etc., which one is moral, which one is immoral, and why?
...
gudgy ...@aol.comNOSPAM (GudGye11)
First of all, Tracy, I think if you'll look back through many of the postings here in this newsgroup, you'll find PLENTY of objections to adults having sex with minors, from myself included. I don't know of ANY instance where it's appropriate for adults to have sex with minor children. In fact, if you do your search for this Newsgroup for threads on Mary Kay LeTourneau, you'll find ample objections to adults having sex with minors. I know that the LeTourneau case set off a wave of complaints, mainly about the light treatment that Ms.
LeTourneau received when compared to male child molesters. There was no shortage of objections to her having abused a child.
Secondly, I think teens having sex is wrong. Personally, I think teens are not prepared emotionally for sex. Heck, I think there are a lot of ADULTS who are not prepared for sex, but that's beside the point. In a best case scenario world, I would love it if no one had sex until they were adults.
Unfortunately, we don't live in such a world.
Lastly, I have to admit that with my experience in this newsgroup, I do see why some have the opinion that any pregnancy is the responsibility of the woman.
Men have absolutely NO RIGHTS in a pregnancy...so why should they have the responsibility as to the outcome? It's not THEIR decision. I have a real hard time, in any situation, dumping the responsibilities to something on someone who have no rights to the situation. I'm not talking about just pregnancy, I'm talking about most anything. I just see all this bobbing and weaving and shucking and jiving by women who say, "Well, if I get pregnant we're both responsible, unless of course, if we're talking about making decisions about the pregnancy, then it's my decision and my decision only, but oh wait a minute...if I do decide to bring this child to term and keep the baby, then YOU are brought back into the picture again, via 18 years of forced child support, even though YOU had no decision making in this outcome!" Yes, I can see why some might say it's a woman's problem.
...
"chris" re...@juno.com
I think he was trying to say that if she has the "sole" right to make the choice, then she has the "sole" responsibility for the choice she made. An adult having sex with a "minor" and a female person choosing to give birth are separate issues.
Tracy ni...@merlins.place
Yesterday in alt.child-support, GudGye11 expressed: Ms. LeTourneau is an adult female who had sex with a minor male child. I don't know of anyone who defended her on Usenet. I have seen posts of people defending adult men having sex with minor female children. I, myself, have experienced more than once in this news group attacks that *I* was the bad person for my choices... but no one attacked the boy in the LeTourneau case for making the same bad choice that I did. This *is* what I'm talking about. The twist is how people view something based on gender.
I'm with you on the above paragraph.
GudGye I brought up not "woman", since woman are typically adult females, but pre-teen and teenage girls that end up pregnant. There is a difference.
See my reply to Max...
Do you honestly think that pre-teen and teenage girls have the same choice as adult women in all states and countries? There are several problems in that thinking...
a) not all states in the US allow a minor girl to abort her pregnancy without her parents' permission.
b) not all states allow abortion.
c) if she happens to live in a state that does allow her that choice, and without her parents' permission, she still has to pay for the abortion.
Abortions are not cheap.
Hence, it is almost impossible for a minor girl to obtain an abortion without either permission or financial help. Meanwhile many people feel that the father, and in my post this would be an adult male, to walk away without any responsibility although he possibly broke a law. This is something I don't support.
Now... it is my opinion that IF an adult male has sex with a minor female child and she becomes pregnant, he is totally responsible. He should be responsible for the cost of the abortion. If a child is born, I strongly believe she should give up the child, and the adult male should have no rights in determining if she can give up the child for adoption. The same should apply if it is reversed... if an adult female becomes pregnant after having sex with a minor male child, then he should not be held responsible financially or otherwise. In other words, if a pregnancy is the end result of a sexual act between an adult and minor, then it is the adult's responsibly to provide all finances... I also believe that the adult should be charged with a crime, and if the adult is the pregnant female, she should lose custody of the child right after birth. I may have an unpopular view on this subject, but I believe that no child should be entering into a contract until after they reach the age of consent.
Child support orders, paternity agreements, marriages, etc... are examples of contracts.
Tracy ~~~~~~~ http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/ ICQ: 18737275 ....................................
I believe that all humans are created equal and deserve the same respect and dignity. Let's end hatred...
*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
"chris" re...@juno.com
What is your definition of an "adult"?
....And, likewise, he can give it up for adoption without her consent?
gudgy ...@aol.comNOSPAM (GudGye11)
Oh, I agree there is a difference as far as gender goes! LeTourneau was treated MUCH more favorably in the media than was ever any male counterpart. I saw news reports on her, where her situation was so tenderly portrayed as a woman in love, and the camera angles showed her hands almost clenched in despair, with her puppy dog eyes looking at the camera telling everyone how she couldn't wait to get out of prison to marry her 'boy'. I don't recall there EVER being a news story about an adult male rapist who was treated as favorably as Ms. LeTourneau. And she even had a made-for-TV movie about her situation...I did not see it, but from the reports of others she was essentially the one who portrayed to be 'the victim.' In article <Pine.WNT.4.33.0111271811170.1748-100000@mom>, Tracy
Tracy ni...@merlins.place
Today in alt.child-support, GudGye11 expressed: GugGye, I know that you mean well, but I wasn't talking about the media.
I was talking about *this* group. The ONLY person who I have seen speak out against sex with children at any age without any regard to their gender, and who speaks out against the injustice in child support, is Sunny. I have not seen many others who openly expresses that it is wrong.
Tracy ~~~~~~~ http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/ ICQ: 18737275 ....................................
I believe that all humans are created equal and deserve the same respect and dignity. Let's end hatred...
*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
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