Getting help for a friend
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meish ...@yahoo.com (Jean)
A neighbor and friend (62 yrs.) has exhibited signs of Alzheimer's for a while now. I know that her doctor recommended some additional testing or consultation about a month ago. At first she didn't follow through, then the doctor (bless his heart)scheduled the appointment for her. She forgot about it three times (twice in one day) and I'm not sure if she actually ever went. 2 weeks ago, she had knee surgery and has seemed even more confused and forgetful. (She doesn't think the doctor gave her any orders for PT or exercizes and I know from experience they are really important or she'll not regain ability to bend her knee) Also, a neighbor from across the street who she doesn't know real well, but has talked to frequently, brought over a meal for her and she acted as if she didn't know who this person was. In fact, she even called me to ask if I knew her neighbor's name.
Anyway, she's generally still pretty competent taking care of her house and dog, paying bills (as far as I know), etc. But the signs are all there - just pretty sporadic. The problem is that she has no family except some cousins in another state. My Mother lives next door to her and I live about 2 blocks away. She doesn't really have any other close friends.
My question is how to help her get help without seeming to meddle.
Then there's the legal aspect of course. I don't know how fast Alzheimer's progresses, but it seems like she really needs to make arrangements now rather than later to safeguard her finances and consider various long term care options. It's been hard to find an opening to talk to her frankly about my concerns, but it seems like that's what I need to do. I do know that her doctor has at least mentioned Alzheimer's to her, but if she's being treated in any way she's keeping very quiet about it. Would her Doctor be free to listen to my concerns? - I know he wouldn't be able to really discuss anything with me without a release from her, but are doctors open to just listening in a case such as this?
Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in Advance, Jean H.
sc ...@REMOVEMEpobox.com
Oh my, the misery this AD can cause. OK, this is what I recommend, based on what you have said. Two cousins, your mom, the lady and you.
Of the five, you are the one that has to get things started. Tell your mom to give you the phone numbers of the cousins. If your mom does not have the phone numbers, she needs to get them from the lady first. Then phone the cousins, tell them your story, and tell them to come stay with their aunt for a week-end to observe her. They have to bring sleeping bags and towels and such, and need to invite her out for dinner so the aunt will not have to cook etc. Then take it from there. If they seem concerned and start to help, that's one thing. If they don't care or cannot help that's another. But get things started now.
Peace.
Jan.
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Jan B. Schipmolder sc...@REMOVEMEpobox.com
"FireCat" agiac...@neo.rr.com
I agree with Jan. Keep in mind that the cousins may have no idea what's going on...in the early stages it's very easy to fool people over the phone.
Just 'talking' to this lady on the phone probably won't work.
You might also start checking around in your area for places like the Council on Aging, or whatever your local equivalent is, as well as any Alzhiemer's groups and have those number avaliable for the cousins if they should wish to use them.
Sharon in Ohio ...
meish ...@yahoo.com (Jean)
Thanks Jan & Sharon for such quick responses.
A couple of factors are making me a little uncomfortable about getting in touch with the cousins at this point. The woman in question is still real competent in many respects; I'm not sure what kind of relationship she has with these cousins; and, would she blow up and shut the door on further help if I go behind her back. Please don't think I'm arguing with your advice! :-) Was just thinking through that scenario and those questions came to mind. Thoughts?
Jean
"Evelyn Ruut" mama-lion...@hvc.rr.com
Dear Jean, I certainly can sympathize, because my mother in law was living alone in her home for many years, and we started noticing her developing problems too, but we had the opposite problem; The neighbors were in complete denial, insisting she was competent and nothing was wrong with her and she was "just a little forgetful - like we all are".....
We knew she was not herself, and the problems were getting worse all the time. She forgot to take her medications or doubled up, thinking she had already taken them. She had a few pots with the handles burnt right off.
Scary stuff like that.
The problem is that anyone who is inclined to be in denial about these things will tend to look upon the whistle blower as someone who has an agenda or that they are just trying to make trouble or some such.
You can skirt the issues gently, by asking who would have legal power in case of illness, by saying you wanted to know who to contact in case of any problems, but it is true that you are always treading on thin ice if you are not family.
It is the right thing to do, nonetheless, and all you can do is simply hope that the people involved will listen with an open mind, and to take the cue you are providing, and act on it.
Believe me, that everyone here has been connected with this kind of a situation from one standpoint or another, and we do all understand how hard it is. You could possibly be preventing a real disaster if she forgets a pot on the stove or some other situation comes up.
There are a lot of scenarios that can give rise to erratic behavior like you have noticed, and none of them are good, and all of them require some attention, whether it is little mini strokes or the development of a serious brain disease. Here's hoping the family pays attention to your concerns!
Best Regards, Evelyn (If this sounds a little strange, it is because Ida was throwing a tantrum about how she just gave birth to a baby and she is so tired and does not want to go with us to our neighbor's house this afternoon. Ida is 82 years old and hasn't given birth in 58 years.)
sisyp ...@aol.com (Sisyphuz)
<snip> Please send me E-Mail with your area code. I have some recent, very sad experience along these lines with a very good friend. It is too difficult to do this in a linear medium like typing. There is just too much to know. If your area code is not nearby you can call me. Otherwise I will call you. Sadly, I found that no matter how bad things are, the legal system can make them even worse for someone like your friend. Put alzheimers in the subject line or it will get thrown out with the junk. If yu doubt my sincerity, note the date on this post: http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=&num=20&as_scoring=r&hl=en&ie=IS... 9-1&scoring=r&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_ugroup=alt.suppo rt.alzheimers&as_usubject=&as_uauthors=sisyphuz+&as_umsgid=&lr=lang_en&as_ drrb=q&as_qdr=&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=21&as_maxm=12&as_ maxy=2002&safe=images
sc ...@REMOVEMEpobox.com
Well, then don't go behind her back. Go to her, say you and a few others are wondering how she is doing, does she need any help, and would it be ok for you to call her cousins. If she doesn't like all of this, it might not matter since she would probably forget it in a few days. Then do it behind her back. (I know, it's easier said than done).
--
Jan B. Schipmolder sc...@REMOVEMEpobox.com
NO_SPAM_TO_dphar ...@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
On 20 Dec 2002 14:11:57 -0800 in alt.support.alzheimers, always a tricky problem in circumstances like this. you need to talk to the cousins to see if they are aware of how she's doing and suggest to them that a visit might be helpful, even though she may sound fine on the phone.
from there, all you can do is play it by ear.
meish ...@yahoo.com (Jean)
Thanks to all for your suggestions and support. No options sound easy!
But I do understand it would be pretty irresponsible of me to not do anything at all until something serious happens. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future. Wish me luck!
Jean H.
"Pam Pomo" pp...@comcast.net
Hi Jean: (snipped) If you do decide to contact the cousins, this is exactly what you should tell them. I would not make suggestions to them of what they should or shouldn't do, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with you expressing your concerns as a friend and neighbor.
JMO, Pam
"Pam Pomo" pp...@comcast.net
As an addendum: You might even want to write it all down and send a letter first with a number where they can reach you if they want to discuss it further. That way they can mull it all over without being taken aback by some "stranger" who calls out of the blue about one of their family members. Perhaps they'd be more likely to "listen".
Pam http://www.muggsmulcher.com/kstuff/a.s.a/intro.htm alt.support.alzheimers' FAQs and Stuff Pages
Mary_Gor ...@tvo.org (Mary Gordon)
Hi Jean, Just wanted to comment that it is very likely that your neighbour is much more impaired than she looks. Just from your brief description, she is likely to be in stage 3, perhaps even into stage 4.
http://www.ec-online.net/Knowledge/articles/alzstages.html People with Alzheimer's are often very good at hiding their difficulties in the early stages of the illness, and can frequently carry on very good social conversations. It was certainly our experience. WE knew my MIL was very confused and having trouble with the mechanics of every day life but many family and friends thought she was just fine. She sounded like her self on the phone, and none of them knew she couldn't tell time, couldn't work her appliances and had no clue what to do when something went wrong.
Your neighbour's problem getting to appointments is probably not just memory - early in the game, many people seem to lose their understanding of numerical and other sequences - so understanding time, or reading a calendar becomes near impossible. They also lose their ability to calculate - so they can't figure out that an appointment on Tuesday at 2pm means they have to be ready to go there at 1:30 - and heck, she may not even know if she looks at a clock and sees 1 pm that it is an hour before 2pm, or that if today is Monday, her appointment is tomorrow.
When this stuff starts to happen, it has big implications for every day life, since trouble with numbers and sequences means challenges handling money, getting anywhere on time, paying bills, even carrying out routine tasks where things have to be done in a set order such as bathing.
She is also starting to have trouble recalling names and faces - which are two distinctly different problems. Not being able to come up with words is not as bad as the difficulty with faces, since at the same time they also start to have trouble recognizing places (i.e. their brain's ability to recognize things is getting messed up), which means the potential for her getting lost even in her own neighbourhood becomes a real possibility.
I would definitely send a note to her cousins. I'm sure they have very little idea what's going on - we saw my MIL all the time, and it took us some time to clue into the situation. She may already be in bigger trouble than anyone realizes (a friend's mother at this stage burned her apartment up when she forgot a pot on the stove). I also would send a note to the doctor saying that many neighbours were concerned and describing what you are seeing - he may be able to call her family or alert some social services. She really does need someone to keep a close eye on her and step in to keep her safe as things progress.
I don't think you would be overstepping the bounds at all. You would feel absolutely terrible if something bad happened to her as a consequence of her confusion, and you hadn't done anything to alert her family.
MaryG.
Jean H meish...@yahoo.com
Thanks for the link. She does exhibit Stage 3 symptoms. I keep having to remind myself that it's easy to view the incidences that I'm aware of as pretty isolated. But since I don't even see her every day, they're probably only the tip of the iceberg.
I have a *lot* to learn!
Hadn't thought of a note to the doctor. Good idea (she and my Mother see the same doc) That's the thought that keeps pushing my own denial aside!
Thanks for all the good information and support. I talked with this person (I'll call her "Jane") the other day about her knee exercises (knee surgery 2 1/2 weeks ago), and she's pretty upset that the docs or PTs didn't prescribe any follow-up exercises. (I find that hard to believe) In the course of the conversation she said that a "home health" person had visited her right after the surgery, but couldn't remember what they discussed. She was open to the idea of me talking with that person to try to "get some answers". I'll have to approach that idea with her again since we'll either have to call the doc or home health person together or she'll need to sign a release for me to talk to them.
Will definitely also pursue contacting the cousins but want to have a more extended conversation with "Jane" first. One step at a time I guess. I kind of feel like I need to "lay the groundwork" first.
Thanks again & Happy Holidays! - Jean H
Mary_Gor ...@tvo.org (Mary Gordon)
One last shred of unsolicited advice. Don't take anything your neighbour says as gosphel. She may THINK she is telling you the truth about something, but they do confabulate. If they can't remember something, they can invent stuff -i.e. if you ask them if they have been shopping or bathing or whatever, they will tell you yes, because if they can't recall, they just ***ume they must have. My mother in law would also make up stories about visitors, phone calls, things she had done. It is hard to know how much of it was her genuinely believing certain things had happened, and how much of it was fantasy (such as reported conversations with dead family members) or just her inventing face saving cover stories. We'd ask if she had made a doctor's appointment, she'd say yes, and then if we called the doc....she hadn't. We'd ask if she had taken her medication - and she's be offended and say of course...but truth was, she might not have, or might have taken it three times.
You also can't trust your neighbours own ***essment of how she is doing, since impaired judgement and ability to reason is part of the disease. My MIL, for example, thought she was doing just fine on her own, and if you asked her if she wanted or needed any help or support, she would have said no. Her ability to see her own problems went up in smoke, so she didn't realize that her house was in disarray, that her clothing was filthy, that her bills were in a muddle, that she shouldn't let strangers in etc. etc. What was perfectly obvious to us was NOT obvious to her, and no amount of arguing or reasoning would make her see what we could see. That is one of the worst things about the disease - they are not just denying the obvious to protect themselves - they really can't see that they are in trouble and need help. So, families and friends frequently end up having to act against the person's wishes.
Anyway, as you can tell, all of us here do go on, so I'll shut up now.
Good luck, and have a wonderful holiday season.
Mary G.
"Evelyn Ruut" mama-lion...@hvc.rr.com
How well you described it, Mary. Yes, it was just like that.... and when we first encountered all these characteristics it was so amazing to us.
It just seems so strange that someone can be totally losing it, and not know, not recognize it....but then, that is the nature of the very disease itself.
A few days ago my mother in law received a phone call from an old friend of hers. The woman didn't think it a bit strange when Ida told her she was here for only three days and would be going home soon, since she needed to take care of her cows. In reality she has been here almost 2 years, and she hasn't had to care for any cows since she was a very young girl.
Best Regards, Evelyn
sm ...@webtv.net
Now "taking care of the cows" could be a perfect answer"--a joke of sorts--like don't ask because I'm not prepared to give details..
Sometimes I am amazed at things my husband says..Trying to understand, I used to ask questions and try to correct his strange realities--.now I don't - well almost never--
We will be married 54 yrs in Feb, In the beginning of this AD nightmare it was so upsetting. Now--- it is still upsetting.
This group has helped ..Thank you all. and may you have as good a holiday as possible.
Florence
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