AA isn't Everything
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"Johny Iceland" johny_icel...@yahoo.com
In my opinion: AA is one of many tools we can use to help us stay sober. Some threads in this newsgroup seem to say that participating in AA meetings and rigidly following the 12 steps is mandatory to avoid drink. Not only is this message incorrect, but I suspect it is causing some disturbing internal conflicts in those folks not entirely comfortable with AA.
Don't get me wrong - I am truly thankful for AA and the many, many lives it has saved. But it isn't the only tool in the shed. Personally, I'm finding this newsgroup to be an excellent support tool. Perhaps what I'm trying to say is that if you REALLY want to live without alcohol, you'll do it with or without AA. Look to your inner self for the best tool of all.
End of opinion.
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Johny Iceland
"Robert McGregor" robert_mcgre...@yahoo.com.au
If you stop talking for me, and abandon that reprehensible "we," you might have more credibility.
Robert Iceworks;-) ...
"Gail" happyto...@sunshine.com
LOL. Hi Johnny. When *I* first started posting, and for a long time after, *I* use to talk about AA or other things and use the word *we* a lot. *I* would talk about things *I* did or the way *I* thought, but was saying *we* all the time. It sounded like *I* was speaking for everyone and in fact, *I* wasn't. *I* can only share and talk about *my* experience. Robert helped me with that. He pointed out that *we* word to me on more than one occasion.
*I* thank him for that. *I*, not *we*, also think you will have a lot to contribute to this newsgroup. *I* hope you do.
LOL..*I* plonked a few times, too.
Take care, Gail
Blue Moon mf...@clara.net
On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:13:39 GMT, "Johny Iceland" For an alcoholic of the type the AA book was written, a personality change is necessary to recover from the condition. This change can come in different forms, but if it doesn't happen at all then the alcoholic is likely to eventually drink again, perhaps without intending to, and is unlikely to ever enjoy the relief that recovery brings. If the change happens and the alcoholic subsequently reverts to the old personality, the old things will start to happen again.
The Steps are an effective way of bringing about this personality change, but they're not the only way. I'd suggest they're better than most, based on the evidence I've seen. Some people are working the Steps without even realising it. Others are not working the Steps despite making claims that they are. Ultimately, each individual is responsible for his or her own recovery actions. If I drink it's not something to be ashamed of, but if I take no action to recover then nothing will change.
So one thing's clear: keep doing the same things, and you'll get the same results. The desire for change can only be an inside job, but once the desire is there it needs to be effectively channelled if any good is to come. Desire alone is not enough. The Steps are an effective way to achieve that change. AA fellowship is, for me, an effective way to quit isolating, mix with others and practice principles of tolerance. Both have a role to play in my personal recovery, as does this newsgroup, other forums, books, etc. Each can be a hard task at times.
One other point: I didn't know what recovery was until I worked the Steps. I never believed they'd do any good, and I never knew peace of mind even before I drank. As a skeptic, I worked them without believing in them. Sure, they work for others, but I'm different. I "came to believe" the program works just by working it.
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Blue Moon
"Johny Iceland" johny_icel...@yahoo.com
Hi Gail, Thanks for clarifying what Robert was trying to say. Now I think I understand. Maybe I'll suck back that PLONK.
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Johny Iceland
"Bobby L." BobbyL2000nos...@bellsouth.net
1) Yeah, But, ....
2) You Don't Understand 3) I'm Different.
Man, have I been there done that...... :-) Okay back to the thread -- There are many roads to sobriety and a world that is not expected to revolve around me, AA is just one of them. Sure sometimes I forget/forgot that (a) I have to stay on the road, and (b) I have to keep moving forward.
Fortunately, there were others there that helped me along. Imagine this --
I've found them here too.
Yes, this is not the only road to sobriety -- It's just the first I found that works for me. Like most common theifs, once I've what I'm looking for I stopped looking. And forgive me my sometimes alcoholic view that what is working for me can work for anybody. But also, as it continues to work for me and as my being sober seems to make life a little easier for those around me, I guess I'll keep doing it. If whatever you're doing is working for you then keep doing it, but if whatever you are doing is not working for you I suggest you ask yourself a couple of questions (a) Am I on a path that leads to sobriety? and (b) Am I moving forward?
If you're not SURE the answer to both of these is "Yes," then I have another question for you -- [In the now famous words of Dr. Phil (LOL)] --- "How's that working for ya'?" Hey Gail, what's that insanity thing you mentioned a while back -- doing the same things, but expecting different results -- yeah, that's it.
Bobby L
"Gail" happyto...@sunshine.com
LOL.. You wouldn't be the first.
Have a good day!
Gail ...
"Gail" happyto...@sunshine.com
Did I say that? I heard it in AA. It wasn't original. I say so much, I forgot to whom I said it to or when. ;) Best, Gail
n ...@centtell.com
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:52:51 +1000, "Robert McGregor" Sure, some AA members talk that way, but if you'll read the AA literature, Robert, you will see that you missed something important: AA only says "If you want what we have, do what we did." THAT is VERY different from the waggled finger, in-your-face, that says "DO THIS!" Nat Nathy...@selfcenturytel.net (please remove yourself to e-mail me.
This is required to reduce spam))
Blue Moon mf...@clara.net
Once again, you have misattributed something someone else has said, this time not only in the "Robert McGregor wrote" but also in your reply. Robert did not write those words.
When you've perfected your own contributions to this forum, you'll then be in a much better position to tell others how to behave or what to discuss.
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Blue Moon
n ...@centtell.com
Dispicable coolie humbly gratefull for attention of Exhaltered Wise One I try to comprehend your (not so) subtle originality. I immerse my filthy body in the quiet pool of your humility(?). I am but a humble pith ant crouched in shadow of your deep footprints. My prostate is enlarged by your wisdom.
Natsen
"Gail" happyto...@sunshine.com
LOL....I knew it!!! I knew it!!! Preacher Nat would show his true colors. I doubted his sincerity when I seen the doubt he showed towards Blue or Robert. He doesn't truly believe that an atheist or agnostic can truly recover in AA without getting religion. Preacher Nat, it showed in your post!!!! Does that mean you don't believe everything AA says or what is in the Big Book? I don't have to worry about how Blue or Robert recovered or that they are agnostic's. All I have to do is read their post and I know they are in recovery. No questions asked!!
How old are you anyway? I really don't expect an answer, you haven't replied to any of my questions yet, kiddo!
Gail
n ...@centtell.com
Whew, that hurts. My sole purpose for sharing of myself in araa is in the hope of helping the still suffering.
I guess I blew it.
Sorry, Nat Nathy...@selfcenturytel.net (please remove yourself to e-mail me.
This is required to reduce spam))
"Robert McGregor" robert_mcgre...@yahoo.com.au
Nat, despite the trouble I took trying to edercate you, seems thread attributions are beyond your comprehension. I did not write that!
Arguably, the AA literature is also beyond your comprehension?
Where, precisely, does AA literature "only" claim "If you want what we have, do what we did." ?
Even if the literature did make that claim, do you really want the 12 years or so of suicidal depression that Bill W., (according to AA literature) the main author had, or the drunkenness that Hank P., (according to AA literature) the only other attributed author had, subsequent to publication of their Big Book?
Perhaps far more pertinent to your is the A.A. claim, documented in the ultimate A.A. literature, "Alcoholics Anonymous", the 12 steps were agreed as "the middle course for all alcoholics who wanted sobriety." Do you really believe any of those 60 or so alcoholics actually took a middle course?
Certainly, Bill W, according to AA literature, did not even take all the steps.
I, for one, am pleased those early AAers did agree on the final edit of the 12 steps, even if it was for "others." I am so content with the results I don't have a need to tell falsehoods to promote the steps, despite the prominence of that much debated God word.
The simple sequential details regarding how to "clean house," or in my own vernacular, "Get my act together" are second to none, in my opinion.
An Other Bob "I don't believe in evil, I believe in right and wrong, and very often they are the same thing" ... Paul Theroux.
"Gail" happyto...@sunshine.com
Hello, Nat.
I want to apologize to you. Yes, I got somewhat angry at your post to Blue.
I do all this talking about anger and how a person reacts to it. Well, I reacted in a negative way, not positive. I hate it when I do that! I am human and I don't always react in a positive way to anger, either.
Hope you accept my sincere apology. I had no right to say the things I said to you.
Best, Gail ...
"shawster" shaws...@tampabay.rr.com
well, that's offensive.
plus you are mixing chinese and japanese, and calling yourself by the misspelled honorific.
Blue Moon mf...@clara.net
Is it my imagination, or did you just blow your credibility as a helpful, recovered alcoholic right out of the water?
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Blue Moon
"Gail" happyto...@sunshine.com
A few have post in here about making New Year resolutions. I have been thinking about that one. This is no joke. If I could or were to make one, it would be to be more like Mouse. I admire his way of not reacting to things that are posted in here. I don't think I have ever seen him lose his cool.
When he has something to say, he says it and that is that. I need to follow that example, I know! I won't make this my resolution, but I will make it a realistic goal for myself. Practice patience with me while I practice it myself...LOL I love the variety in this group. I am learning from everyone. Thanks all.
Gail
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