Christian Counselors
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"Mike" n...@mikenospamzero.net
I am considering using a Christian counselor.
However, in my research, I have found that most Christian counselors are virtually unregulated by state professional licensing authorities. In addition to not being required to obtain a professional license, many flaunt Ph.D. degrees awarded from unaccredited bible colleges. What are your thoughts?
Opinions? Do you know of any source which can provide referrals to Christian counselors with Ph.D. credentials from accredited colleges and universities?
Thanks
"VO" h...@overthere.net
The hard truth is that PhDs have no better and possibly worse record of help that the "Christian" counselor.
In general, Psychology or Psychiatry is PURE psychobabble. Christian Psychologist is an oxymoron.
Oh, yes. I have a degree in psychology. I only take the statistical part as anywhere near truth.
I don't know what your need is, but referral from others is the best if they have been helped. Note that there is a difference of "He's great" and "I'm better off".
P.S. the usual difference in a "pro" and a "counselor" is how many drugs they give you.
If that's all you want bourbon is cheaper.
Mike Andrade m...@box.invalid
Here's some counsel: Do not, under any circumstances, take VO's advice or consider anything he posts to be worth anything.
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Mike Maybe where the heart breaks in two Thats the only place grace can get through To find you. - David Wilcox, "In The Broken Places"
Don - - - - - --- someb...@worldwide.net
Ok, so you ignore the guys question and instead, attack another with unsupported accusations. How nice.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Don - - - - - --- someb...@worldwide.net
Give me a good Jewish atheist any day over some egoist who claims to be a "Christian counselor." "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
"Shawn Pennington" smpen...@hotmail.com
Mike, If you would like the email address of a wonderful Christian counselor, I would be happy to provide you with such. You can reach me at greenacresalpa...@yahoo.com He has a Masters Degree in counseling from New York's Columbia University and, as a personal friend, I know him to be a sincere Christian.
God bless, Shawn ...
Mike Andrade m...@box.invalid
Hey Don, know what happens when an average fourth grade student attempts calculus? You should.
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Mike If the pen is mightier than the sword, and a picture is worth a thousand words, how dangerous is a fax?
"VO" h...@overthere.net
Not only that but has zero comment on what was wrong in the ***essment.
Typical of bigots and a little less so atheists. Oh yes, we don't want to leave out the Pseudo-Christians ( new word replacing "bigots")
Mike Andrade m...@box.invalid
LOL. Good one, brown eyes.
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Mike The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. - Winston Churchill
"ManwSloHand" rick1r...@gmail.com
Just make sure it's not your pastor or a counselor from within your church. After being involved in ministry I'd tell you to NEVER EVER bare your soul to someone that can and will "share" your info with others around them. Then they tell 2 people, and they tell 2 people and so on and so on.
Personally, I'd take certification over anything else.
Don - - - - - --- someb...@worldwide.net
Excellent advice. In one of my first encounters with the reality that there is often very little actually "spiritual" about "God's man," a pastor, I did the "baring of soul" to a pastor who was the uncle of a girl with whom I thought I was in love, while in college. Well...that "godly" Baptist preacher double-crossed me quicker than I could run a tank of gas through my car on the interstate.
At that point, I realized that a pastor is the LAST person you should use as a counselor!!! Later, that guy was fired on the spot in his church sanctuary after slugging one of the deacons at the pulpit, during a deacon's meeting.
A pastor us best used as a figurehead for the agenda of the congregation...and yes, every congregation has one, just like the pastor, who usually thinks HE is the boss.
"Why do we idolize Christian singers and speakers?
We go from glorifying musicians of the world to glorifying Christian musicians.
It's all idolatry! Satan is getting a great victory as we seem to worship these ministers on tape & records, and clamor to get their autographs in churches and concert halls from coast to coast"
---Keith Green
"ManwSloHand" rick1r...@gmail.com
You attend a denominational church I take it?
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www.RickRyan.com
"VO" h...@overthere.net
ALL churches are denominational, even if only one member.
Of course the super self righteous do not attend a "DENOMINATIONAL" church mostly because they are too ignorant to know what they are talking about.
Don - - - - - --- someb...@worldwide.net
WHAT? I mentioned "congregation," not denomination. So-called "non-demominal" churches are worse than denominational churches.
"We ain't gone be po no mo."
- - Pastor Greg Powe, Atlanta
"TommyDale" stormtroope...@yahoo.com
After seeing many Christians burned by talkative pastors and their wives, I concur that if I were to ever seek a counselor, it would not be from a local church.
"ManwSloHand" rick1r...@gmail.com
That was my point. Don't ever, ever, EVER go to a pastor for serious counselling issues. And in an "independent church" make doubly sure of it. The pastor answers to no one (in the congregation) and will boot you as quick as a blink if you run crossways with him/her. At least in a denominational church you've got a deacon board that he answers to.
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www.RickRyan.com
"danlemke" danle...@ameritech.net
Being both a pastor and a certified Christian counselor, I'd like to say that I am sorry some have had less than stellar experiences with either, but am certainly not surprised. In my case, the very first formal cl*** I took in my ministerial training was an introductory pastoral counseling course.
Once we learned such things as the location of the restrooms, the main exits, and how to spell the professor's name, our first real lesson dealt rather thoroughly with the subject of confidentiality. The next lesson, if I recall correctly, was on how to know when to refer a parishioner to a professional, and one of the criteria for that decision was if we felt we'd have any possible problems with maintaining confidentiality.
After that, we were counseled not to counsel family members or close friends, except to the extent all family members or close friends counsel one another, i.e., giving an informal opinion once in a while, like I suspect most adults have sometimes found themselves doing. It makes a lot of sense to refer those with significant problems to someone outside the local congregation, for the protection of the individual's privacy as well as from a practical standpoint for most pastors. It's also likely to be more effective, because often the more complex cases will involve problems that the typical pastor isn't trained to handle, or handles rarely enough that he winds up stumbling through whatever kind of treatment plan he can patch together.
Having said all that, my advice to the original inquiry is to find a good Christian counselor over a purely secular one anyway, because it is the Christian counselor who is likely to offer real hope. I'd add, though, to be careful, and check out possible counselors more carefully than you'd check out a remodeling contractor your grandmother was considering. There are good and bad practitioners in every profession. Licensing or certification is only one indicator among many, and not everyone who goes to a small school is less qualified than those from the big name universities.
Counseling is a matter of the mind, yes, but even more the heart and the soul. A more expensive education probably reflects little about a person's character, but some serious asking around often can shed light on the subject.
PreacherMan...@aol.com
Don - - - - - --- someb...@worldwide.net
A "Christian counselor" primarily offers cliches, according to his denominational background.
And calling oneself a "counselor" is and ego-trip almost as fulfilling as calling oneself "pastor." The position is often held by a pride-filled person who sees himself as more well-adjusted and emotionally healthier then those poor souls who are "telling all" to him. Like I said earlier, give me a good Jewish atheist any day for objectivity. When people see themselves as the "elect", they can easily conclude that others are sinners. It is out of this sense of self righteousness that true believers may feel chosen to do God's work. That's when their will becomes God's will, their desires become God's desires, their wars become God's wars.
Greigg Grei...@nowhere.man
I disagree. When my wife and I divorced, I went through a really tough time blaming myself for her infidelity. But that counselor helped me to see I was not the one at fault. It wasn't my fault that my wife was running around behind my back. When I caught her, I was devastated.
That's all I'll say here. But emotionally, it set me back for several years before I finally decided that being upset over her was not worth remainig depressed. So I went to see a counselor. I chose a Christian counselor because I am a Christian, and I don't view counselors as you do.
Greigg
"VO" h...@overthere.net
What you just said was that time is the best counselor. A really good counselor takes money and bides his time. He also sits and listens.
Counselors usually (good ones) realize (KNOW) that the person has no one to talk to, so the "counselor" is in reality a listener.
What you also said was, "I'm so great, how could anyone look at anyone else.
What did I do wrong?" Yesterday is yesterday whether 20 minutes or twenty years. The base of Christianity is looking forward.
Don - - - - - --- someb...@worldwide.net
That's because: 1) you have a VERY limited experience with counselors AND 2) your one or two experiences were good. Overall, virtually no pastor is qualified to do serious counseling. I also had a great experience several years ago with a Christian counselor...for three sessions. I had a romantic break-up similar to yours and a (very insecure) pastor friend urged me to go see this Christian counselor, who was seriously trained. I told him how I deal with issues and why I was there (because my friend thought I should go). But he did not see any reason for me to be there and neither did I. He and I also agreed that most "christian counselors" had more ego than training and were not equipped for much other than sharing cliches to hurting people.
You played most of the notes in front of you, but not at the right time!
----Bell Choir Director
"TommyDale" stormtroope...@yahoo.com
Dan, I believe you, but I think many Christian counselors (or worse, pastors who THINK they are counselors automatically) are dangerous because they tend to take things in their own hands, rather than rely on any of the professional training that they may have had. (Example: "The Bible says this:....") rather than what may be best for the situation.
A very close friend of mine was suffering what he thought was depression, so he sought counseling. This condition was causing him problems with his marriage, he was drinking and in a dangerous downward spiral. At the urging of his wife and friends, he first went to his pastor. The pastor immediately accused him of having an affair, which was not true -- but his wife had told the pastor that she had suspected her husband of that. He left the church, and I can't blame him for that, because he had lost all confidence in the pastor. He then went to a secular counselor, who immediately told him that he didn't love his wife any longer, and that he should divorce her and find someone to make him happy.
Guess what the guy's actual problem was -- he was suffering from hypoglycemia, and the "depression" was really a physical phenomenon, not mental. He was treated, stopped the drinking which caused further problems with blood sugar, given medication and now lives a perfectly normal life, still married to the same woman. And he is still in church, although a different one of course!
I guess the bottom line is that any counselor is about as good or bad as the other.
TommyDale
"TommyDale" stormtroope...@yahoo.com
My aopologies. I should have stated this way: "I believe you, but I think many Christian counselors (or worse, pastors who THINK they are counselors automatically) are dangerous because they tend to take things in their own hands, rather than rely on any of the professional training that they may have had. (Example: "The Bible says this, BUT I THINK IT REALLY MEANS THIS:...." or "GOD TOLD ME THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO") rather than what may be best for the situation.
No, I didn't infer any such thing. The drinking was causing the low blood sugar to worsen. I didn't say that the low blood sugar caused him to drink, although he SEEMED "depressed" from the condition and I suppose the drinking could have made him forget about his feelings briefly. Isn't that why people drink?
In case you didn't know this, alcohol affects the blood sugar levels.
He wasn't suffering from actual "depression" but had been misdiagnosed as such.
I suppose that is possible, but as you said earlier, he had a buffoon for a pastor.
Total agreement here...
Don - - - - - --- someb...@worldwide.net
That is just another example of how our prejudices color our religious ideas and beliefs. That's why the Bible was (and sometimes still is) used to both endorse slavery and to condemn slavery in the USA. It is also another example of the following: "Devout religionists are frequently attracted to and bound to their piety largely because it presumably offers them holier-than-thouness and oneupmanship over non-religionists."
--Dr. Albert Ellis "If you understand it, it is not God."
--from Saint Augustine??s, Sermon 117.
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