Child welfare breaks up family over guns
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"N9NWO" n9...@amsat.org
At time of crisis, the system fails A Star editorial March 16, 2001 The child welfare system should do everything in its power to keep the Sistrunk family together. Instead, it's turned its wrath upon them.
God knows that Calvin and Shawnae Sistrunk are remorseful for what happened.
God knows they're grateful their mistake wasn't fatal.
By now the story is familiar. The couple's 6-year-old daughter found a gun in a dresser and took it with her to school. Her older sister turned it in to the principal's office.
That same day, the Sistrunks' three children, ages 10, 6 and 7 months, were removed from the home; the father was arrested for felony neglect.
A few days later, the mother was charged too. Neither had been arrested or had had any contact with the child welfare system previously.
On March 5, Marion County Chief Juvenile Court Judge James Payne ordered the children returned to their mother with the stipulation that their father move out. He did the following day.
Incredibly, as of late Thursday, the children remained in foster care.
First, the Marion County Office of Family and Children asked for proof that the father had moved out. He provided them with a receipt showing that he had leased an apartment. Next, the family's caseworker demanded that the 6-year-old see a psychiatrist. Done.
Judge Payne Wednesday reiterated that the OFC should return the children to the mother. The caseworker said she couldn't comply that day because she had another case to work on. Payne told Mrs. Sistrunk to let him know if her children aren't back by this weekend.
On Thursday, the caseworker showed up at the Sistrunk home to see if Mr.
Sistrunk had moved back. She searched through the bedrooms; he wasn't there.
Mrs. Sistrunk asked the caseworker why she hadn't delivered the children.
The caseworker said the foster parents caring for the children were at work and she couldn't get them.
It is incredibly sad that at a time of family crisis, the system has utterly failed the Sistrunks. The couple has expressed remorse, sought counseling and done everything the child welfare office has asked them to do. A judge has ordered the children be returned.
The child welfare system's express purpose is to protect children and preserve families. The system has every reason to keep this stable, two-parent home intact.
Home is exactly where the children belong. And so does their father. No purpose is served by keeping this family apart.
Copyright 2001 Indiana Newspapers Inc.
http://www.starnews.com/articles/editcrisis0316.html
Desert ...@mojave.net
What's wrong with this picture??
"...a government that does not trust its honest, lawabiding, taxpaying citizens with the means of selfdefense is not itself worthy of trust. Laws disarming honest citizens proclaim that the government is the master, not the servant, of the people." - A NATION OF COWARDS
"MAC" m...@home.com
Everything is wrong with this picture.
But first and foremost...What was a gun doing in a dresser where the child got her hands on it????
The gun should have been confiscated,and the owner chrged...everything else is over-kill.The kids seem to be being punished also,and this is obliously not fair.
The gun owner is at fault here,no-one else,though wifey shoulda had her hand slapped too I suppose,if she knew the gun was there.
"MAC" m...@home.com
Oops..fergots....
The system you are speaking of does not work.
It needs to be fixed.
Guns have NO place in the hads of those who do not know what to do with them.
This idiot didn't,did he?
As for the charge against the father...a MAJOR fine woulda done the trick I think,and loss of the privilige of gun ownership.Splitting them up does nothing.
Brown Thumb BrownTh...@RemOvEthIsGrrAttitude.com
As someone else said, loss of ownership rights -- MAYBE. If it was loaded, DEFINITELY.
But as to the idea that Child Welfare bureaus are supposed to keep families together -- read Solomon's Choice. These agencies normally do the exact opposite of whatever the family wants -- for reasons that actually make sense. Once burnout has set in, that's the only thing that feels like you're *doing* *something* -- and they're not answerable to anyone.
Warning about the book, though. It may lead to depression.
--
@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@ Liberal in favor of the 2nd Amendment (I'd make that plural if I knew how....)
Snake s...@northsound.com
On what do you base this? How much do you know of this case? Does any government (federal, state, county, city) have the right (power) to dictate how (and what) you may store on private property?
What is the gun owner "at fault" for? Is he at fault because the child took (theft) something with out permission? If so why? Is the owner at fault for the child taking the gun to school after the theft? If so why? Was the gun loaded? Was it stored in a place that a child is routinely allowed to go with out supervision? Do you put the same standards for storage of all things that can be used to cause harm or death in a private home? Do you keep ALL cleaning supplies, knives and forks, perfumes, body powders, tools (power and hand), rope, chain, hair dye, razors, gas, oil, lawn mowers and every other thing that can harm/kill under lock and key at all times unless in use at that time?
If not why not?
--
Snake We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution: neither is it in any manner dependent on that instrument for it's existence. The second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government" 92 U. S. 542, U. S. v. Curishank (U. S. la. 1875)
Snake s...@northsound.com
How do YOU know this? Were you there to inspect the home to insure that the gun was stored properly? Do you know weather or not this person has taken a self defense cl***? Is this person proficient with a gun? Was the law complied with were this person lives? Was the gun stored loaded? Did it have a lock on it? The news paper artical does not answer any of these questions.
On what legal grounds do you base your OPINION that gun ownership is a privilege and not a right?
--
Snake We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution: neither is it in any manner dependent on that instrument for it's existence. The second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government" 92 U. S. 542, U. S. v. Curishank (U. S. la. 1875)
"MAC" m...@home.com
Sorry Snake,but yer just too stupid to reply to.
"MAC" m...@home.com
The report said the gun was found by a child in an unlocked dresser drawer.
But this may not seem like a stupid place to "store" a firearm to you.After all...what could POSSIBLY happen????????????
You are an idiot Snake.I don't need any more proof of that.
"Jeffrey" clearbluepe...@peoplepc.com
I read on www.foxnews.com last night that a COP was at a gas station, left his handgun in the car with his THREE-YEAR-OLD SON, and the 3-year-old crawled into the back to the gun, pointed it at a gas attendant, and shot him in the face. The gas attendant is in critical condition and I hope he survives and recovers.
In light of the story you related below, I wonder if the COP will be charged with FELONY NEGLECT, since his kid got a hold of his gun and DID shoot somebody. Aren't cops supposed to be trained in safe gun handling practices -- which I presume includes not leaving them around for a 3 year old to use them to shoot someone?
Disgusting. And they tell us that we should give up our guns because the cops are "there to protect us"; because "only the police should have guns"; because THEY'RE "TRAINED". To hell with that!
---Jeffrey
--
"Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying, life; Bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky." ...
"Randy Sweeney" rsween...@Home.com
Hey... one shot, one hit.
Better shooting than New York's "finest" in Diallo.
"Russianbear" russianb...@talk21.com
But people who support guns say that with the proper training accidents won't happen so they SHOULD be allowed to have guns. This article proves that even with training accidents can still happen.
(Just being devils advocate - don't start bitchin at me)
Jim Alder jimal...@sssnet.com
Or even noisy. There's no mention here if the gun was even loaded.
The officials are right. The parent's were certainly remiss in their training of the children. The children should never have trusted the school officials to do the right thing.
Separating the father from his family was no sufficient. The mother should be sterilized, too, to avoid tainting future children with the sight of a gun.
I hope she brought the SWAT team? This man was obviously dangerous and uncooperative.
But she could force her way into the Sistrunk household and search it. It all depends on what they WANT to do.
The system's TRUE purpose is to exert power. It is most certainly the motivating force in many of the employees of this agency, as evidenced by this case.
--
Jim A. - an army of one.
President-elect Bill Clinton, at a news conference in Little Rock, Ark., to announce his remaining Cabinet selections, said he wanted to learn more about the pardons, adding, 'I am concerned by any action that sends a signal that if you work for the Government, you're beyond the law, or that not telling the truth to Congress under oath is somehow less serious than not telling the truth to some other body under oath.'
Brown Thumb BrownTh...@RemOvEthIsGrrAttitude.com
My sister had a cop called on her when she was restraining (by putting her arms around) her 4th-grade son who was trying to leave the property when he was grounded. The cops showed up and told the mother, in front of the son, that she didn't have a right to restrain him because kids, by law, in California, have the same rights of travel as adults, and that he'd take her to jail if she didn't let go.
She never regained control of the kid. Yes, he lived there, but she'd be chasing him down all hours of the day and night. And the cops kept telling her she was responsible for her child's whereabouts.
And my family is 6th-generation liberal -- not ONE of us think the cop was being reasonable.
Now he's in jail, for the umpteenth time, at 19.
@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@ Liberal in favor of the 2nd Amendment (I'd make that plural if I knew how....)
Tulay vc...@gte.net
You sure are being an elitist ***hole...
Tulay vc...@gte.net
And your a ****ing elitist ***hole....
"N9NWO" n9...@amsat.org
: > At time of crisis, the system fails : > : > A Star editorial : > : > March 16, 2001 : > : > The child welfare system should do everything in its power to keep the : > Sistrunk family together. Instead, it's turned its wrath upon them.
: > : > God knows that Calvin and Shawnae Sistrunk are remorseful for what happened.
: > God knows they're grateful their mistake wasn't fatal.
: : Or even noisy. There's no mention here if the gun : was even loaded.
: : > By now the story is familiar. The couple's 6-year-old daughter found a gun : > in a dresser and took it with her to school. Her older sister turned it in : > to the principal's office.
: : The officials are right. The parent's were certainly : remiss in their training of the children. The children : should never have trusted the school officials to do : the right thing.
: : > That same day, the Sistrunks' three children, ages 10, 6 and 7 months, were : > removed from the home; the father was arrested for felony neglect.
: > : > A few days later, the mother was charged too. Neither had been arrested or : > had had any contact with the child welfare system previously.
: > : > On March 5, Marion County Chief Juvenile Court Judge James Payne ordered the : > children returned to their mother with the stipulation that their father : > move out. He did the following day.
: : Separating the father from his family was no : sufficient. The mother should be sterilized, too, to : avoid tainting future children with the sight of a gun.
: : > Incredibly, as of late Thursday, the children remained in foster care.
: > : > First, the Marion County Office of Family and Children asked for proof that : > the father had moved out. He provided them with a receipt showing that he : > had leased an apartment. Next, the family's caseworker demanded that the : > 6-year-old see a psychiatrist. Done.
: > : > Judge Payne Wednesday reiterated that the OFC should return the children to : > the mother. The caseworker said she couldn't comply that day because she had : > another case to work on. Payne told Mrs. Sistrunk to let him know if her : > children aren't back by this weekend.
: > : > On Thursday, the caseworker showed up at the Sistrunk home to see if Mr.
: > Sistrunk had moved back. She searched through the bedrooms; he wasn't there.
: : I hope she brought the SWAT team? This man was : obviously dangerous and uncooperative.
: : > Mrs. Sistrunk asked the caseworker why she hadn't delivered the children.
: > The caseworker said the foster parents caring for the children were at work : > and she couldn't get them.
: : But she could force her way into the Sistrunk : household and search it. It all depends on what they : WANT to do.
: : > It is incredibly sad that at a time of family crisis, the system has utterly : > failed the Sistrunks. The couple has expressed remorse, sought counseling : > and done everything the child welfare office has asked them to do. A judge : > has ordered the children be returned.
: > : > The child welfare system's express purpose is to protect children and : > preserve families. The system has every reason to keep this stable, : > two-parent home intact.
: : The system's TRUE purpose is to exert power. It is : most certainly the motivating force in many of the : employees of this agency, as evidenced by this case.
: : --
: Jim A. - an army of one.
Jim, what is interesting is that this was the lead editorial! The largest paper in the state is putting pressure on the child welfare people. While a former colonel of mine, Larry McIntyre, is on the editorial board, it is still liberal. That even they see this is foolish is interesting, to say the least.
"wavoka" wav...@deja.com
Yup, with birth control training, your mother slipped up and had an accident - YOU.
-*MORT*-
Jos ...@webtv.net (Jo Jo)
A prime example of a government agency running amuck !
Brown Thumb BrownTh...@RemOvEthIsGrrAttitude.com
The world has brilliant conservatives and brilliant liberals. It also has lots of idiots. Since about have the population is liberal and half conservative the idiots probably fall out in similar proportions.
If all liberals get the blame for everything liberal idiots do, the same should apply to conservatives. Would you find it "interesting, to say the least" if a conservative came out against some idiocy perpetrated by a conservative?
Should I be intrigued if any conservatives are against bombing federal buildings containing both ATF and day-care centers?
The problem with child welfare agencies is that they have no oversight. That will cause idiots to "pool" there.. In conservative areas, kids are taken away from parents for breastfeeding too long, or because the mothers work, or because they don't work...in liberal areas, a gun in the house, spanking, whatever.
Lack of a mechanism for parents to fight back, not liberalism or conservativism, is the cause. Usually, the parents are told that if they publicize the issue, they'll never see the kids again.
--
@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@-@ Liberal in favor of the 2nd Amendment (I'd make that plural if I knew how....)
Snake s...@northsound.com
It dod not say that the gun was loaded. It did not saw that the mag (if semi auto) was stored with it. It did not saw if there was ammo stored with it. It did not saw if the gun was in working order. You just concluded that the gun presented a danger with out any real information to support that conclusion.
Who is the "idiot" jumping to conclutions with out facts?
--
Snake We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution: neither is it in any manner dependent on that instrument for it's existence. The second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government" 92 U. S. 542, U. S. v. Curishank (U. S. la. 1875)
"Aaron R. Kulkis" akul...@yahoo.com
Unfortunately, most Child Welfare people see their primary purpose is to keep the pool of foster children as large as possible, because more kids in foster care = more $$$$$$$$$$$ And for managers and directors, more foster care kids in your jurisdiction = more employees under you => promotion to a higher pay grade => nicer office, better government-supplied vehicle, and more POWER.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis Unix Systems Engineer DNRC Minister of all I survey ICQ # 3056642 K: Truth in advertising: Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala, Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan, Special Interest Sierra Club, Anarchist Members of the ACLU Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy Gr*** Roots Pro-Gun movement, J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4, The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle), also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the challenge to describe even one philosophical difference between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact, Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because you are lazy, stupid people" G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup ...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
"MAC" m...@home.com
FACT the firarm was left in an unlocked dresser drwawer.
FACT 6 yearold child found the gun.
FACT said child took the gun to school.
FACT you are still an idiot if you think there is nothing wrong with these facts.
srtico ...@cs.company (SrticomOp)
I believe Child Warfare went overbored on the case. But I still know that if your gun and ammo are locked up in different areas and someone breaks in you might as well not have a gun to begin with; If he was going to hurt you there is almost nothing to stop him AND if you think the cops are going to get there in time your F*CKED!!!
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