How does your community treat mentally ill children and young adults
Related Topics
"animzmirot" margal...@yahoo.com
I'm curious as to how your shul and your Jewish community deals with it's mentally ill children and young adults. If there is a child who has problems outside the scope of outpatient therapy within your community, how do you go about continuing that child's Jewish education in a residential setting, for example. What would happen to allow the child to have a b'nai mitzvah if that event occurred during his/her stay in residential treatment. Does your rabbi visit with children that are in treatment facilities? How does one arrange for kosher foods, and does your community help with providing food for a child who is in an institution that does not provide for kashrut? Does your community provide respite care for parents who are dealing with the huge emotional strain of having a child so ill? How about financial help for parents who are unable to work during this stressful time, due to the required family therapy meetings held up to 5 times/week for kids with severe mental illnesses?
What about you personally. What have you done to help a family devistated by this issue? What do you think you should do?
I'm really interested to hear specifics, and not particularly anecdotal evidence if it will in any way embar*** a child or a family. And please, NO RANTS about there being no such thing as mental illness. I don't think I could take it.
Thanks, Marjorie
"Henry Goodman" henry.good...@virgin.net
In London there are a number of Jewish residential establishments that cope with this problem. My wife has a cousin (not a child, he is over 40) who is resident in such a place. This is funded mainly by the local council. There are separate establishments for mentally ill children. The boys from one such school near here often attend the shul I go to on Friday nights, accompanied by minders, and are welcomed.
--
Henry Goodman henry dot goodman at virgin dot net
Beach Runner BeachRun...@cfl.rr.nospam
Sad question. Years back my son had difficulties. A complete misdiagnoses. Now a graduating A student, headed to law school. At around 10 he was misdiagnosed, and even though he was going to day treatment we brought him to religious school 3 times a week. I guess it upset me, not once did I hear a word from the rabbi or anyone over the troubles and efforts. It would have helped.
Children psychiatrists can be dangerous, using drugs not approved for children.
"Rabbi Dr. Onan ben Drusoy" youwishyouk...@yahoo.com
My community appoints them as rabbonim, shul presidents and gabboim.
OBD
Beach Runner BeachRun...@cfl.rr.nospam
Rabbi Dr. Onan ben Drusoy wrote: That is really funny.
"Nick" tulse04-n...@yahoo.co.uk
I don't think that you really mean "mentally ill" children. I think that you are talking about learning disability or mental disability. Not mental illness which I would suggest is generally an adult phenomenon.
By mental illness, I am referring to depression, manic depression, schizophrenia etc.
A similar question might be asked as to how the Jewish community deals with adults with mental illness.
Nick
Micha Berger mi...@aishdas.org
I have a son in non-Jewish residential education. Not even near our home, but near my inlaws. There simply is next-to-no Jewish Education available for the child with psychiatric disorders. The greater NY area, the triangle between N***au County, Monsey and Lakewood has fewer than 50 seats in programs aimed at the psychiatrically disabled.
We our children with ADD could be mainstreamed if they weren't also dyslexic. (Which is common for ADD.) For our son with Downs there are also multiple choices. But not autism.
On days off and spring break in their own schools, children can attend the local yeshiva day schools. We have volunteer shadows to allow a tiny taste of integration -- as well as education for the mainsteam kids on how to relate to those at the far end of the bell curve.
My wife volunteers for a charity that provides social work services for a couple who are going through the shock of not having that healthy baby they were expecting and dreaming about.
She happens to be the one who places their failures, the children whose parents can't handle the child. Either psychologically, or they simply can't handle the load for whatever else is going on in their lives.
-mi
--
Micha Berger A cheerful disposition is an inestimable treasure.
mi...@aishdas.org It preserves health, promotes convalescence, http://www.aishdas.org and helps us cope with adversity.
Fax: (413) 403-9905 - R' SR Hirsch, "From the Wisdom of Mishlei"
Micha Berger mi...@aishdas.org
Autism usually emerges in early childhood. Similarly Asperger's Syndrome, PDD NOS and other such issues.
Clinical Despression can emerge as young as 8 or 9.
Schizophrenia does tend to be older.
I don't know about other illnesses.
-mi
--
Micha Berger Life is complex.
mi...@aishdas.org Decisions are complex.
http://www.aishdas.org The Torah is complex.
Fax: (413) 403-9905 - R' Binyamin Hecht
"Eliyahu Rooff" lro...@hotmail.com
Depression, anxiety disorders, disruptive behaviors, personality disorders, and many other mental illnesses can occur in children as well as adults. The fact that those problems are more often diagnosed and recognized in adults doesn't make them non-existent in childhood or adolescence. See, for instance, http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=Child_and_Adolescent_Action_..., http://www.paraquad.org/cmifacts.htm, http://my.webmd.com/content/article/60/67113 and http://www.friendshospitalonline.org/facts.htm.
True, but the question Marjorie asked was about the Jewish community and children with mental illness. And she hasn't gotten much of an answer yet, either.
Eliyahu
"animzmirot" margal...@yahoo.com
If you are addressing me, you're incorrect. I mean mentally ill children.
I'm very clear on what I mean. Mental illness strikes children with alarming frequency, incapacitating them and isolating them from their peer environment. In addition, the Jewish community, at least in my neck of the woods, seems to shun these children, refusing any help for the family and the child. Bipolar disease, severe clinical depression, conduct disorder are all mental illness that affect children.
Marjorie
"animzmirot" margal...@yahoo.com
10% of schozophrenic children present in their preteens to early teens. The other 90% present later, in late teens to early adulthood. It is a childhood illness.
Clinical depression can strike well before 8 or 9. There are suicidal children in the 4-6 YO age category who not only talk about killing themselves, but have a plan.
Mental illness is a serious problem amongst children, and society as a whole, and the Jewish community as a subgroup seem to be unaware of the devistation that this causes.
Marjorie
"animzmirot" margal...@yahoo.com
Thank you so much for responding. I know you have a child with 'issues', and I know you understand the difficulty that such a child presents to a family.
I guess what I'd like to know is, what do you do with the child who refuses to attend the local yeshiva day school even on a very limited basis, because of the negative attention given to his problems? And how to you prepare for a simcha for a child that has not been allowed a Jewish education and refuses to participate because of the rejection he's experienced in the Jewish community?
I'd like to know more about any residential programs that are Jewish in scope. I know there are none where I live, and I've searched pretty carefully. How do you handle the food issue with your son in the residential program? And does your community support your child with visits, gifts, and some acknowledgement that he exists?
You can take this offline if you don't feel comfortable sharing any personal information. I just want to know at least ONE other person who has some experience in this realm.
Thanks, Marjorie
"Nick" tulse04-n...@yahoo.co.uk
> OBD Very amusing!!
Nick
Beach Runner BeachRun...@cfl.rr.nospam
As I stated, my son, misdiagnosed, was treated like a pariah, when he needed love and attention.
Not one word from the rabbi or anyone. I left the synagogue because of it. Rich or poor sure made a difference.
When I lived in Corning, the entire Jewish community came together, regardless of affiliation.
I loved Corning. We ALL got to together for holidays and other special situations. Corning was a wonderful Jewish community.
Jews are people.
"Rabbi Dr. Onan ben Drusoy" youwishyouk...@yahoo.com
What about all those pishers in Knesset?
Speaking of which: A soldier was bragging to his new Russian immigrant friend that his name was Erez Ma'ayan and that his family had come to Israel 5 generations ago with the founding fathers. An old Yerushalmi heard him and said "You look familiar. Was your great grandfather named Moishe Schpritzv***er? He used to mop the floors of the shul when I was a boy!" Erez blushed, and the old Yid continued: "And my zaide knew his zaide back in Yehupetz - they called him Yankel der Pisher."* OBD *(Maayan - fountain. Schpritzv***er - spray water. Pisher - bedwetter, immature fool)
Micha Berger mi...@aishdas.org
More than one. But it's different when you elect to raise a child who you know has issues than when you have to readjust expectations. It's the difference between planning to go to Italy and finding out you accidentally booked a plane to Holland, and planning a trip to Holland. Holland is a lot more enjoyable in the second case. (See "Welcome to Holland" by Emily Pearl Kingsley at <http://www.nas.com/downsyn/holland.html>. The page is on a Downs web site, but the parable works for parenting any special child.) If you'd like to discuss this further, contact me by email and we can exchange phone numbers.
: I know you understand the difficulty that such a child presents to a family.
: I guess what I'd like to know is, what do you do with the child who refuses : to attend the local yeshiva day school even on a very limited basis, because : of the negative attention given to his problems? And how to you prepare for : a simcha for a child that has not been allowed a Jewish education and : refuses to participate because of the rejection he's experienced in the : Jewish community?
I've not had a problem with it. My community tries very hard to prove to him, and themselves, that they're inclusive. It's like the liberal who tries so hard to prove he's not bigotted, he bends over backwards to be friendly. To the point of it being artificial, shallow, and somewhat patronizing.
Everyone was excited for Yoni at his bar mitzvah. Even though all he was able to do was read the berakhos from a translitated copy I made up for him -- and even that took practice. And I don't think they even realized it was the result of practice.
-mi
--
Micha Berger "I hear, then I forget; I see, then I remember; mi...@aishdas.org I do, then I understand." - Confucius http://www.aishdas.org "Hearing doesn't compare to seeing." - Mechilta Fax: (413) 403-9905 "We will do and we will listen." - Israelites
mos ...@mm.huji.ac.il
Oy Micha, you seem to know too much about these things. May your family be spared any future contact with these illnesses.
Moshe Schorr It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
mos ...@mm.huji.ac.il
Thank G-d, I don't have any personal experience with this. I do have a daughter who teaches "special education" for children with learning disabilities but I don't think that includes mental illness.
Marjorie, I can't give advice but I can give you encouragement and best wishes. May you be successful in your attempts to educate your children in the best way possible.
Moshe Schorr It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
"Nick" tulse04-n...@yahoo.co.uk
> "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:43:58 +0000 (UTC), animzmirot <margal...@yahoo.com> I have found this UK website which is designed for both children and parents and discusses a wide range of emotional and mental problems in young people.
http://www.youngminds.org.uk Nick London, UK
maxine in ri weed...@youhoo.com
I hate to agree with you, but you are correct. My friend, who is a teacher for the pitzels, has a son a month older than my daughter, who is autistic and most likely stuck intellectually at a pre-school level. When it was time for him to start hebrew school, the teachers and then-cantor refused to make an iep (individual education plan) for him. She found out several years later that BJE would have funded the plan and paid aides to work with him in the cl***room. Have you spoken with the local Federation? They should have a referral for you for most if not all of your needs.
I'm sorry this has happened to your children. I remember them when they were small, how sweet and bright they were. May the doctors find a way to return them to health of mind and body.
maxine in ri
"animzmirot" margal...@yahoo.com
Thanks Maxine. Only one child is affected, but it's been very very tough. I haven't spoken to the local Federation, but I have to JFCS, and so far, as usual, they're been utterly worthless. Sad, but true.
Marjorie
"Nick" tulse04-n...@yahoo.co.uk
The UK mental health organisation report the incidence of different mental health problems in children as follows: "About 2 in 100 children under the age of 12 are depressed to the extent that they would benefit from seeing a specialist child psychiatrist.
"Emotional and conduct disorders (stealing, truancy etc) together are found on average in 10 per cent of children and 20 per cent of adolescents.
"Schizophrenia affects about 0.4 per cent of people in Britain at any one time and about 1 in 100 people during their lifetime. The onset of childhood schizophrenia is usually at puberty. Figures show rates of 0.02 per cent of 12-16 year olds and 0.5 per cent of 17-19 year olds.
"A survey by Hounslow and Spelthorne Health Authority found that sleep disorders are found in 10 per cent of children 0-4 years old and 4 per cent of children 5 to 9 years old." The leaflet gives the source of the information. I give the website address but apologies for the length of the address.
http://www.mind.org.uk/Mind/Templates/Content%20(RelatedTopics).aspx?... B%2ehtm%3fNRMODE%3dPublished%26wbc_purpose%3dBasic%26WBCMODE%3dPresentation
Micha Berger mi...@aishdas.org
Thanks. Aside about British English: Did you mean to say "reports", or is the word "organisation" treated like a plural? The American English "organization" would be "reports".
...
: "Emotional and conduct disorders (stealing, truancy etc) together are found : on average in 10 per cent of children and 20 per cent of adolescents.
I have a problem with the concept of "conduct disorder" as it minimizes the significance of free will. One can punish a thief, but is it moral to punish someone with a 312.8 or 301.7 (Antisocial Personality Disorder) DSM IV diagnosis? B y labeling these as diseases, we minimize the guilt of the guilty party.
...
: The leaflet gives the source of the information. I give the website address : but apologies for the length of the address.
Aside about URLs: See www.tinyurl.com I think legally you need to include in your post the domain name or corporate name that owns the copyright on the page, since tinyurl would strip it off. And if the law doesn't require it, I would think simple morality would.
-mi
--
Micha Berger For a mitzvah is a lamp, mi...@aishdas.org And the Torah, its light.
http://www.aishdas.org - based on Mishlei 6:2 Fax: (413) 403-9905
Naomi Rivkis nriv...@yahoo.com
[ Moderator's Comment: Isn't this getting a little offtopic? ] On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:37:30 +0000 (UTC), Micha Berger I'm not sure this is true. As far as I understand it, a good deal of the therapy for most conduct disorders is a clear set of rules and predictable consequences for misbehavior. If you're going to demand proper behavior and punish bad behavior, I don't think you're "minimizing guilt" in any way that counts.
Naomi
| To Top |